Bedard on Pats DB Coaching

[IllegalContact]

Before Sunday, a lot of people were suggesting that Browner could be a cap casualty in 2015, and that the secondary would be fine with Revis and our other DBs. Now suddenly we have Revis and Browner, and nothing else.

This thread is a perfect example of knee jerk reactions, cherry picking, and piling on (discussing DB draft choices, which has nothing to do with their technical development, for example). It's a farce. Time for the "thread ignore" option.

based on play on both sides of the ball, my primary knee-jerk is that the pats weren't going to throw the kitchen sink at this game and have it wind up as a loss. it seemed that both the playcalling as well as adjustments

just as there is risk in looking past an inferior opponent, something tells me that the pats were going to win this game without showing much or they weren't going to win it and had the chargers game circled on their calendar.

the packers game did not have much strategic value (unless the pats decide to blow a game against an AFC east team)

I'd be more concerned if I were the packers.....they were at home, were jacked up, played well and still could have lost to a team that did not play well.

 

[IllegalContact]

The secondary has been the strength of this team, not its Achilles heel, and the reason to go get Revised and Browner is because they were available and would significantly upgrade this secondary no !matter who they drafted prior to this season. Belichick knew who they would face this season both at QB and at WR and he went out and got the pieces to actually be able to handle Manning, Luck, Rodgers and WR's like D. Thomas, AJ Green, J. Nelson, R.Cobb, T.Y Hilton, R. Wayne, K. Allen....

Have they missed on 2nd and 3rd round picks-absolutey, it would be foolish to suggest they haven't, however the same can be said for every team in football, especially those teams who actually have to pick at the end of every round every draft. Trying to extrapolate that to suggest that Belichick is a bad GM however is idiocy, and that is almost always the tack those taking shots at his picks are shooting for.

Belichick has put together a great secondary, people should be happy about that rather than trying to foind a way to turn it into a negative.

sure.....I'm not panicked.....the pats played like crap all around and were still in a potential game winning situation at Lambeau against a team that played lights out.

just talking point until the convo turns to the chargers

 

[sevengables_2207]

One more thing I'd like to add is the enormous rise in popularity of fantasy football and metrics sites like "Pro Football Focus" and the influence they have by underscoring quantitative statistics for a game that inherently has more than its fair share of qualitative-based situations, relative to other sports like baseball for instance.

Sometimes, it is as easy of a one-on-one match-up being the difference, but in football, with so many moving parts that have to work in sync for a play to achieve a desired outcome, I think these one-on-one match-ups are a wee bit overblown and overrated by the media nowadays.

 

[Sicilian]

And to add a touch of reality to this thread. think about this. There are over 300 DB's playing in the NFL right now, probably 250 of them were drafted. Of that group, how many would most fans think were good in pass coverage......10...15.....maybe 20. So listing all the Pats DB's that were drafted since 2000 and pointing out the mediocrity is stupid, since every team could do the same.

This part to me is the most important. It's like when people look at the overall success of BB's 2nd round draft choices (which are up and down), and then use individual examples of great players they could have had. They completely ignore the hundreds of bad 2nd round draft choices made by the league as a whole over the years, and instead just look at our worst versus the league's best.

 

[IllegalContact]

This part to me is the most important. It's like when people look at the overall success of BB's 2nd round draft choices (which are up and down), and then use individual examples of great players they could have had. They completely ignore the hundreds of bad 2nd round draft choices made by the league as a whole over the years, and instead just look at our worst versus the league's best.

nobody's pounding the table here, so you don't need to be so sensitive

It is fair to assume that out of 6 2nd and 3rd round CBs drafted in the last 6 years that one of them would be playing well. it is on par with their drafting of WRs in that area, also

other positions have fared much better.....

otherwise, its just killing time until the SD talk heats up

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

This is somewhat true...but Logan Ryan is no revis or Browner

 

[SVN]

I bet if Bedard had said Belichick is teaching wrong DB techniques to his coaches, this thread wouldve been not this long . Its easier to kill Boyer because he is Boyer when he is only running BB's scheme and teachings. He is not some long time NFL Lifer at defense like BB is . This is BB's teachings and scheme so If anyone believes that is the issue , blame him.

 

[patfanken]

Again, the question doesn't seem to be being answered. What is it that Bedard is suggesting is being taught wrong by the Pats staff or being failed to BE taught by the staff.. The more I think about it the more disappointed in Bedard I become. I wonder just what is that magic illixar that once given will allow DB's to be able to cover receivers these days. For that matter what changed from the kudos he was handing out to the secondary just last week for the job they did on the Lions.

If you are going to make a criticism, you had better have not only the exact cause for your complaint, you'd better have the cure. I'm gonna take a wild guess here and expect Bedard to supply NEITHER.

 

[Sicilian]

One more thing I'd like to add is the enormous rise in popularity of fantasy football and metrics sites like "Pro Football Focus" and the influence they have by underscoring quantitative statistics for a game that inherently has more than its fair share of qualitative-based situations, relative to other sports like baseball for instance.

Sometimes, it is as easy of a one-on-one match-up being the difference, but in football, with so many moving parts that have to work in sync for a play to achieve a desired outcome, I think these one-on-one match-ups are a wee bit overblown and overrated by the media nowadays.

Case in point, the Nelson TD: That will go on the stat sheet as Revis giving up a catch, but was he expecting McCourty to be in position to make the tackle on that side? Okay, so it's McCourty's fault... or was Devin expecting a linebacker to drop into that zone so he shifted to the other side to watch a deep route to the right? It's so hard to say.

 

[Sicilian]

nobody's pounding the table here, so you don't need to be so sensitive

It is fair to assume that out of 6 2nd and 3rd round CBs drafted in the last 6 years that one of them would be playing well. it is on par with their drafting of WRs in that area, also

other positions have fared much better.....

otherwise, its just killing time until the SD talk heats up

I wasn't aware that I was being sensitive. Nor did I accuse anyone of pounding the table. Just pointing out that most critical arguments I see are based on really incomplete evidence and hindsight. Not that they're wrong, just that I don't see a lot of earnest evaluation from most. Just a lot of data cherry picking.

 

[Ivan]

nobody's pounding the table here, so you don't need to be so sensitive

It is fair to assume that out of 6 2nd and 3rd round CBs drafted in the last 6 years that one of them would be playing well. it is on par with their drafting of WRs in that area, also

other positions have fared much better.....

otherwise, its just killing time until the SD talk heats up

There have been misses but overall they have built a very good secondary, and that is really all that !matters. They were also without Jones, Siliga, and Easely and if they do get to play them again their presence should help significantly. I'm not really sure what Ras I Dowling and Darius Butler have to do with this current Patriots team other than to give some people an excuse to b.tch and cry. I love the way this team is set up for the rest of the season and believe it is the best team they have fielded since 2007, which is not exactly something to b.tch about IMO.

Are they perfect, no, but then again no team is, they are however a very good all around team.

 

[Ivan]

Agree completely. Rodgers was a beast all Sunday, and he makes his third wide receivers look better than our third DBs. No shame in that.

This is how I see it as well. Pretty much everyone agreed going into the game that they would try to keep Cobb and Nelson in check with Revised, Browner and a safety helping. After that the focus was not letting Lacy run wild and keeping Rodgers in the pocket. Overall their defense did a good job in all of those areas, Rodgers however was still able to make the most of what he had to work with even with their strengths being held in check overall, and he managed to get them the win going to lesser weapons, props to him, IMO he is the best QB in football and was the difference last Sunday. I'm not going to panic over that loss and believe they can still come out of the regular season with home field, which is the ultimate goal of the regular season in terms of wins. The other major goal being to have your team peaking heading into January and not trending downward. I think they are in good shape to achieve both goals and give them a good shot at a Lombardi if they do reach them.

 

[Oswlek]

according to some, you can't even ask the question

the last 5 corners drafted in the 2nd and 3rd round have ALL failed.... some here will insist that it's not the scouting and it's not the coaching........just karma, I guess

Last 5 corners, huh?

Logan Ryan - way too early to say anything. He has more good moments than bad so far in his career, so he's likely to be no worse than a passable CB for several more years.

Ras-I Dowling - when a guy gets injured this often, I don't know how much coaching matters.

Butler - textbook case for the second year drop off, and he's proven to be viable elsewhere. The biggest feather in the coaching issue cap.

Wheatley - why are we going all the way back to 2008? What does this prove? Wasn't he nearly as injury prone as Dowling?

The most recent 2nd/3rd round corner from there is Ellis, who obviously wasn't a failure. Then it's just Geno and Brock Williams.

The case gets a little stronger if you add safeties in, but not necessarily against Boyer. He has spent virtually no time with Wilson and Harmon.

Again, it's an interesting topic, but not nearly as clear cut as people make it out to be.

 

[Oswlek]

Also, Devante Adams is quite a talented rookie receiver who is probably going to take Randall Cobb's place next year if the latter is not resigned. I do not think he falls under the category of "middling".

Talented or no, he came into the game with less than 300 yards on the season, and was just behind Eddie Lacy with the 4th most receiving yards on the team. To be this far into the season with your #3 receiver competition battling around the 300 yard mark is middling production. Even more so when Aaron Rodgers is the QB.

I suppose you could make the case that Nelson and Cobb have been so productive that they haven't needed a 3rd option much, but there was no way anyone went into that game feeling like NE's secondary was going to allow 350+ yards passing if only 135 of it went to the top two. Certainly we can't play the, "what do you expect when they target NE's 3rd and 4th DBs?" card.

 

[Jack Handy]

Who is the best DB coach that the Pats have had since BB took over?

 

[Oswlek]

Who is the best DB coach that the Pats have had since BB took over?

Mangini.

 

[luuked]

Mangini.

Yeah. That bridge is not only burned but eradicated out of existence. Too bad.

 

[Ring 6]

Are we really saying Greg Bedard knows more about how to coach DBs than Bill Belichick and his coaching staff?

 

[IllegalContact]

Are we really saying Greg Bedard knows more about how to coach DBs than Bill Belichick and his coaching staff?

I don't see where anyone said that......but feel free to be offended

 

[Bonzo]

Does anybody else think that Ryan seems better suited for S?

Had we a full-strength Arrington in that game, I bet this thread goes away...