Basically, we brought in Hines for Mason

[captain stone]

Coming back
Brown, Wynn, Cajuste, Herron, Andrews, Onwenu, Ferentz
================
OUT
Karras and Mason

IN
Strange and Hines
=========
How can this be good?

It isn't.

It kinda sucks actually.

 

[captain stone]

Onwenu was our #1 depth last year. Hines is that this year. This is a wash if Hines is as good as Onwenu.

He isn't.

In fact, if Hinds isn't being given snaps at Center, then this was a bad pick.

 

[captain stone]

No we replaced Mason with Onwenu

In the starting lineup, yes, but not on the overall 53.

 

[Wozzy]

It isn't.

It kinda sucks actually.

The starting five is one of the better units in the AFC, if not the league.

Cajuste, Herron and Russey provide quality backups and they can solidify the line more if Hines is any good or Cannon is healthy or if they raid someone else’s practice squad for guys they brought in during the off-season on the interior.

#DramaQueen

 

[203Pat]

Mason's play slipped last year and wasn't worthy of what he was getting paid. If Wynn is healthy, I'd put him at RT, if not, that's where it gets very interesting. Do we insert Hines inside and move Onwenu to RT or put Cajuste or Herron at RT.

I won't pretend to be an offensive line expert but PFF (take it for what it's worth) rated him roughly the same as he has averaged the last 4-5 years. He also seemed to be willing to play ball and lowered his cap hit to $2.3 million for this season and according to Spotrac no dead cap hit last year. He basically has the same cap hit as Cole Strange does except he is a proven above average starter where Strange is unproven and we made a heavy investment with a first round pick.

I don't hate dumping Mason, although I feel like we could have gotten a little more in return since the team is rebuilding. I do hate investing a first round pick on a guard on a rebuilding team that has plenty of other needs.

 

[203Pat]

The starting five is one of the better units in the AFC, if not the league.

Cajuste, Herron and Russey provide quality backups and they can solidify the line more if Hines is any good or Cannon is healthy or if they raid someone else’s practice squad for guys they brought in during the off-season on the interior.

#DramaQueen

How can you call any of them quality backups? You haven't even seen them play any meaningful snaps.

 

[ashley]

I won't pretend to be an offensive line expert but PFF (take it for what it's worth) rated him roughly the same as he has averaged the last 4-5 years. He also seemed to be willing to play ball and lowered his cap hit to $2.3 million for this season and according to Spotrac no dead cap hit last year. He basically has the same cap hit as Cole Strange does except he is a proven above average starter where Strange is unproven and we made a heavy investment with a first round pick.

I don't hate dumping Mason, although I feel like we could have gotten a little more in return, since the team is rebuilding. I do hate investing a first round pick on a guard on a rebuilding team that has plenty of other needs.

All you need to know about PFF is that they had Van Noy as the number 1 coverage LB in the league last year. We all know the only two players worse than him in coverage are Elandon Roberts and Tavai.

 

[Wozzy]

How can you call any of them quality backups? You haven't even seen them play any meaningful snaps.

We saw them all preseason and some of us even attended camp... they also made the team. They looked really good.

The team also actively shopped Wynn this off-season, they did so because they knew they’d be fine with Onwenu, Cajuste, Herron and whichever young guy they kept on the interior. They obviously didn’t get the offer they wanted. But they could still trade him tomorrow or at the deadline and get max value from his rookie deal a la JimmyG.

Only Captain Stoned and the negative Nancy brigade could take one of the best units on our team and paint it as a problem. A failed attempt at zone blocking doesn’t mean every OL on this team lost their talent. Like I said... this is one of the better units in the AFC if not league assuming health.

 

[Wozzy]

All you need to know about PFF is that they had Van Noy as the number 1 coverage LB in the league last year. We all know the only two players worse than him in coverage are Elandon Roberts and Tavai.

PFF player grades are toilet paper.

 

[captain stone]

The starting five is one of the better units in the AFC, if not the league.

I keep seeing this claim, but it hasn't been true since 2018.

Cajuste, Herron and Russey provide quality backups and they can solidify the line more if Hines is any good or Cannon is healthy or if they raid someone else’s practice squad for guys they brought in during the off-season on the interior.

#DramaQueen

Herron's not a quality backup... Cachoo is, I think, but only at RT... I ass-ume you mean Ferentz when you wrote Russey; and we should all know on which side of the quality backup/not quality backup fence Thanksdad resides...

Hines, Cannon, someone else's PS... If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

 

[Wozzy]

I keep seeing this claim, but it hasn't been true since 2018.

It was true last year even though they started out the season slow. They ranked 3rd in the league in fewest sacks, ranked 8th in rushing yards and 2nd in rushing TD’s. Stats are your friend, learn the game.

Herron's not a quality backup... Cachoo is, I think, but only at RT... I ass-ume you mean Ferentz when you wrote Russey; and we should all know on which side of the quality backup/not quality backup fence Thanksdad resides...

Hines, Cannon, someone else's PS... If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...

You say every Patriots player sucks… you’re a one note wonder.

 

[Ring 6]

All you need to know about PFF is that they had Van Noy as the number 1 coverage LB in the league last year. We all know the only two players worse than him in coverage are Elandon Roberts and Tavai.

I am certainly the last one to ever tout or defend PFF, but these type of comments only serve to confuse discussion.

It is entirely possible that KVN graded out as the #1 coverage LB in the NFL. It is also ludicrous to say he is the best cover LB. But those statements are not anywhere close to the same thing.

Here are KVNs coverage stats.
21 attempts 14 compete. 79 yards 1 Td 1 Int
Hard to say a guy who allowed 79 yards all season sucked.
Breaking it down further the total
air yards on those 14 was -2. And the average RAC was just 5.7.
Without seeing each play we can pretty safely assume few if any were down the field since 14 totaled -2 air yards.
So results wise he probably was the best coverage LB.
The difference is all results are not created equal. If he is covering the flat or a small zone with help, or free, it’s unlikely he will be involved in action in coverage.
And that is part of the point. We ran a system that covered his deficiencies and when he was in coverage he wasn’t exposed.
If we put him at mlb, and played cover2, asking him to defend the deep middle 1/3 he would have gotten toasted.

I know you know this, so it’s not really directed at you, but it’s just an example of why you can’t evaluate football and football players from a statsheet.

 

[upstater1]

I usually root for my brother Greeks, and though I like what Karras gave us and I thought his uncle was pretty funny on Webster, I think he wsa not very good as a guard. I don't miss him.

I think he couldn't get to a ton of blocks. He held up well when bull rushed head on, but overall he was a huge liability.

 

[mgteich]

Strange and Onwenu are your starting guards.

I don’t think much of Hines but suspect because he missed almost the entirety of the offseason the team wanted to look at him before deciding on his future.

Many of the decent interior guys they cut (Hambright, Dejarlais, Russey) are sitting on practice squads somewhere. They could cut Hines tomorrow and bring in a guy they know can play… or I could be completely wrong about Hines.

Either way he isn’t here to replace Mason, Strange is and he’s younger and cheaper.

OK Strange is here to replace Mason.

So, who replaces Karras and Onwenu. Obviously, Onwenu fills one of the 6 starter quality OL spots from 2021.

 

[Zuma]

OK Strange is here to replace Mason.

In regards to starting yes but in play style...Hines is a lot closer to Mason then Strange.

 

[mgteich]

I just hate that we created a hole at guard and for some reason decided we needed to patch the hole with a first round pick.

We created a hole at backup OG.

 

[Wozzy]

OK Strange is here to replace Mason.

So, who replaces Karras and Onwenu. Obviously, Onwenu fills one of the 6 starter quality OL spots from 2021.

Onwenu replaces Karras, is an upgrade to Karras.

Cajuste, Herron and Russey provide quality depth. This isn’t hard.

 

[mgteich]

Onwenu replaces Karras, is an upgrade to Karras.

Cajuste, Herron and Russey provide quality depth. This isn’t hard.

OK, to summarize

2021 depth: Cajuste, Herron, Onwenu
2022 depth: Cajuste, Herron, Russey

 

[Wozzy]

OK, to summarize

2021 depth: Cajuste, Herron, Onwenu
2022 depth: Cajuste, Herron, Russey

And?

In 2021 they were one of the better OLines in the league.

Onwenu is an upgrade to Karras.

2021 Cajuste was a rookie, he played like a rookie in 2 starts. He looked real good in camp and preseason in 2022.

Russey has a lot more upside than Karras and costs nothing. They can snatch any of the interior linemen they tried out in the preseason who played well (Dejarlais, Hambright) who are currently on other practice squads… guards are easily found in-season.

What is the problem?

 

[Froob]

Mason's play slipped last year and wasn't worthy of what he was getting paid. If Wynn is healthy, I'd put him at RT, if not, that's where it gets very interesting. Do we insert Hines inside and move Onwenu to RT or put Cajuste or Herron at RT.

Should have re-signed Karras then. Using a first to fill the hole at guard when tackle was a bigger need, was highly questionable.