Backup QBs - Hoyer VS Mallet

[MoLewisrocks]

Detailed scouting report on Mallett prior to the draft.

Gridiron Gab 2011 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report


Good analysis.

I've seen a few even more positive assessments but also several more critical, particularly about decision making and poise under pressure and accuracy as it relates to mechanics falling apart and in some cases simply too much arm and not enough touch. Scary part is even this guy sees a gunslinger mentality and calls him a Parcell's kind of talent which Bill has moved on from and compares him to a couple of guys I would not want to see as the face of my franchise or leader of my offense and overall team leader. But other than that...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

It makes complete sense. You are missing the point. $14m guaranteed of a $103m contract is not big money. It was structured in a way that gave the team a number of outs with minimal financial impact if the situation changed.

A team will try to avoid the tag at all costs as it forces them to pay the market price and not THEIR price. If you are a business owner, would you like your employees to be paid what 10 other companies pay their employees or what you think the employee is worth to your business and on your payment terms?




The intent of the contract was to pay Drew short-term market value on a team-friendly payment schedule and not bet the farm long-term on his ability to be QB for the NEP.

Some people won't grasp the difference between choosing a cap friendly and flexible approach to not just taking a one year hit and dealing with a disgruntled QB who was used to being entitled... It is what is is.

 

[IllegalContact]

Detailed scouting report on Mallett prior to the draft.

Gridiron Gab 2011 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report


Good analysis.

as is this article which explains much about mallett in college and before the draft. I guess we can lump Mo and Deus in with the anonymous sources

The Curious Case of Ryan Mallett » NFL Draft Gab

 

[RobertWeathers]

it was big money at the time....so why not the franchise tag as with every other player? still makes no sense

It was but it was essentially a short term deal with a ton of team-friendly out clauses. It was a win-win. Dew saw the contract as a 1yr 8m or a 4yr $30m deal and the Pats saw the contract the same was with a ton of build in escape hatches.

I already stated the fundamental reason why teams would not want to apply the tag.

 

[IllegalContact]

Some people won't grasp the difference between choosing a cap friendly and flexible approach to not just taking a one year hit and dealing with a disgruntled QB who was used to being entitled... It is what is is.

yes, obviously......since they've used the same approach so many times before

talk about reverse engineering an argument

.....so again, what's wrong with ryan mallett?

 

[IllegalContact]

It was but it was essentially a short term deal with a ton of team-friendly out clauses. It was a win-win. Dew saw the contract as a 1yr 8m or a 4yr $30m deal and the Pats saw the contract the same was with a ton of build in escape hatches.

I already stated the fundamental reason why teams would not want to apply the tag.

sounded more like your guess than any kind of fundamental reason. especially since they were convinced they were eventually going in another direction anyway. doesn't make sense to put that all up when a tag for a year would do the job and leave no dead money as it did

 

[Elijah T.]

as is this article which explains much about mallett in college and before the draft. I guess we can lump Mo and Deus in with the anonymous sources

The Curious Case of Ryan Mallett » NFL Draft Gab

Thanks for posting this.

A little bit long, but very detailed.

 

[RobertWeathers]

sounded more like your guess than any kind of fundamental reason. especially since they were convinced they were eventually going in another direction anyway. doesn't make sense to put that all up when a tag for a year would do the job and leave no dead money as it did

Keep in mind, back in 2001 BB was still not a popular selection as HC of the NEP and the team had it's first losing season since 1995. Kraft had confidence in BB, but he needed to hedge his bets. In addition, Kraft was also in the process of building a new stadium and soliciting corporations and sponsorships to help sell tickets. The only "real" marketable commodity he had at the time that the fan base and local corporations could identify was Bledsoe. Doing a 1 year tag deal and pissing off your star-QB was not good, long-term business. It was classic risk management that even George Costanza could understand.

So they pen him to a win-win deal while in the meantime, BB thinks he may have something in this #12 kid who is busting his ass and blows Bledsoe away on every measurable evaluation the team does on the QB position.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

A lot of people like to bring up the Favre to Rodgers situation as proof that smart teams prepare in advance. What they fail to take into account was the situation in GB at the time. Favre started talking about retirement before his last deal was done. As a result, GB structured a deal that essentially paid Favre as he went. They gave him his $100M deal, because he was using retirement talk as leverage, and that led to Drew needing the same deal...because that's the way the psyche's go. GB knew Favre wasn't going anywhere soon, he was just using his leverage and entitlement to get out of having to be a team player and attend stupid things like OTA's and eventually the early weeks of TC. But as his performance became more erratic and seemed to deteriorate coupled with the continued retirement threats, they drafted Rodgers in 2005 when he dropped into their lap at #24. That got Brett's attention... But it was too little too late and a leopard doesn't change his spots. The threats became more about showing him some love. Finally after 2007, and the deal was set up to be manageable by 2006..., they called his bluff and moved on. Even when he made it at the expense of destroying a legacy. GB is now past all that, and Brett is just a memory and not nearly as significant a one as he was before last season...

Brady intends to play until he's 40 if able and he's playing at an insanely consistent level and he loves to practice and can't wait to get back to work come camp time and he's always done the deal they asked him to and he still wants to prove every day that he's still the best QB for this team he's lead to 4 superbowls, which he is... So yeah, lets draft his replacement...and if we have to flip Brady so he can develop yet another chip on his shoulder and prove one more cast of doubters what idiots they were - cause he's a guy whose actually done that a few times already...

I never feared repercussions from the Bledsoe trade. Nor did I believe GB would suffer any in trading Favre. There would be some moments for sure, always are with a gunslinger. That's all there are, though.

 

[IllegalContact]

I've seen a few even more positive assessments but also several more critical, particularly about decision making and poise under pressure and accuracy as it relates to mechanics falling apart and in some cases simply too much arm and not enough touch. Scary part is even this guy sees a gunslinger mentality and calls him a Parcell's kind of talent which Bill has moved on from and compares him to a couple of guys I would not want to see as the face of my franchise or leader of my offense and overall team leader. But other than that...

so you believe what you want to believe......it is clear

he moved on from that type, but then drafts one.......so contrary to your opinion, he has not moved on from that type.

again, everything you have proclaimed about mallett is obviously derived from an opening opinion of 'I don't like Ryan Mallett', and then you go dig up the reasons why.

 

[IllegalContact]

Keep in mind, back in 2001 BB was still not a popular selection as HC of the NEP and the team had it's first losing season since 1995. Kraft had confidence in BB, but he needed to hedge his bets. In addition, Kraft was also in the process of building a new stadium and soliciting corporations and sponsorships to help sell tickets. The only "real" marketable commodity he had at the time that the fan base and local corporations could identify was Bledsoe. Doing a 1 year tag deal and pissing off your star-QB was not good, long-term business. It was classic risk management that even George Costanza could understand.

So they pen him to a win-win deal while in the meantime, BB thinks he may have something in this #12 kid who is busting his ass and blows Bledsoe away on every measurable evaluation the team does on the QB position.

bah....he had CMGI drop 75M in venture capital funds on his lap. everyhing you say does not fly in the face of everything else that has been done in the organization. BB doesn't care what others think....he didn't when he was with the browns, so I doubt he had some momentary lapse when he signed bledsoe. unless, of course he had made a deal to have bledsoe taken out by week 3

 

[RobertWeathers]

bah....he had CMGI drop 75M in venture capital funds on his lap.

Prove this statement. Jonathan was on the board at Bain who was a VC for CMGI and the team signed a 15 year stadium naming deal worth $7.6m annually. Thats a small piece in the revenue stream Kraft was assembling.

everyhing you say does not fly in the face of everything else that has been done in the organization. BB doesn't care what others think....he didn't when he was with the browns, so I doubt he had some momentary lapse when he signed bledsoe. unless, of course he had made a deal to have bledsoe taken out by week 3

A ridiculous statement. Based on his experience in Cleveland in working with a cash-strapped owner, he had a complete understanding of the revenue model Kraft was looking to create and an appreciation on how to get there. BB doesn't care what the fans think, but he cares what his boss thinks.

The Bledsoe signing was not a lapse in judgement. If anything, it was smart business from both a marketing and football standpoint.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Keep in mind, back in 2001 BB was still not a popular selection as HC of the NEP and the team had it's first losing season since 1995. Kraft had confidence in BB, but he needed to hedge his bets. In addition, Kraft was also in the process of building a new stadium and soliciting corporations and sponsorships to help sell tickets. The only "real" marketable commodity he had at the time that the fan base and local corporations could identify was Bledsoe. Doing a 1 year tag deal and pissing off your star-QB was not good, long-term business. It was classic risk management that even George Costanza could understand.

So they pen him to a win-win deal while in the meantime, BB thinks he may have something in this #12 kid who is busting his ass and blows Bledsoe away on every measurable evaluation the team does on the QB position.

The team was also heading into cap hell after some bad contracts and bad decisions made by Bill's predecessors and Bob and they had to dig their way out of that (incurring some more dead cap) and part of that involves lowering existing cap hits via creative contract restructure as opposed to absorbing franchise tags. Even with the dead cap on Bledsoe's deal the following year they remained well under their limits for the postion going forward because of the incremental deal Brady took and the minimal early cap hit on it. And they had the ability to trade Bledsoe because he was under contract to them yet all they were on the hook for was $6M in sunk cap cost. And they had the luxury and cover if you will of doing all that with a Lombardi in the case. Without one a pissed off Bledsoe is a lot harder to trade for anything... The way it all went down allowed Buffalo - if no one else except some die hard Bledsoe fans hereabouts - to convince themselves that Drew would have won that trophy had Belichick not chosen to stick with the dink and dunk backup he would yet live to regret sticking with long term...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Keep in mind, back in 2001 BB was still not a popular selection as HC of the NEP and the team had it's first losing season since 1995. Kraft had confidence in BB, but he needed to hedge his bets. In addition, Kraft was also in the process of building a new stadium and soliciting corporations and sponsorships to help sell tickets. The only "real" marketable commodity he had at the time that the fan base and local corporations could identify was Bledsoe. Doing a 1 year tag deal and pissing off your star-QB was not good, long-term business. It was classic risk management that even George Costanza could understand.

So they pen him to a win-win deal while in the meantime, BB thinks he may have something in this #12 kid who is busting his ass and blows Bledsoe away on every measurable evaluation the team does on the QB position.

The team was also heading into cap hell after some bad contracts and bad decisions made by Bill's predecessors and Bob and they had to dig their way out of that (incurring substantial dead cap - 23% of cap in 2001 but down to 15% in 2002 even including Bledsoe's) and part of that involves lowering existing cap hits via creative contract restructure as opposed to absorbing franchise tags. Even with the dead cap on Bledsoe's deal the following year they remained well under their limits for the postion going forward because of the incremental deal Brady took and the minimal early cap hit on it. The QB cap hit went down from $8M+ in 2001 to $7M in 2002 against a $71M cap. And they had the ability to trade Bledsoe because he was under contract to them yet all they were on the hook for was $6M in sunk cap cost. And they had the luxury and cover if you will of doing all that with a Lombardi in the case. Without one a pissed off Bledsoe is a lot harder to trade for anything...under a contract let alone back to back tagged.

The way it all went down allowed Buffalo - if no one else except some die hard Bledsoe fans hereabouts - to convince themselves that Drew would have won that trophy had Belichick not chosen to stick with the dink and dunk backup he would yet live to regret sticking with long term...and given a $6.3M cap hit to them in 2002 made that decision easier for them then if they were facing signing him to a long term deal. To them from there on out he was all salary and just a pick to justify. Didn't work out the way they hoped, but then Bill wouldn't have traded him within the division if he'd thought it would...

The rest as we know, or should know, is history. I think Drew is at piece with it, finally. Unfortunately I don't think some segments of this fan base will ever be.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Brady intends to play until he's 40 if able and he's playing at an insanely consistent level and he loves to practice and can't wait to get back to work come camp time and he's always done the deal they asked him to and he still wants to prove every day that he's still the best QB for this team he's lead to 4 superbowls, which he is... So yeah, lets draft his replacement...and if we have to flip Brady so he can develop yet another chip on his shoulder and prove one more cast of doubters what idiots they were - cause he's a guy whose actually done that a few times already...

The Pats didn't draft Mallett with the expectation that he will be Brady's replacement. The Pats drafted him because they felt he would be a good addition to the team over the next four years.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The Pats didn't draft Mallett with the expectation that he will be Brady's replacement. The Pats drafted him because they felt he would be a good addition to the team over the next four years.

They drafted him because they could. I think the expectation is they could put some sweat equity into him and see where that led. Best case scenario, a tradeable commodity to one of the other teams that had a first round grade on him talent wise. Second best case scenario a viable backup to Brady as soon as 2012 if there is a market for Hoyer. Third best scenario a viable backup for Brady by 2013. Worst case scenario a wasted #74 draft pick which is probably at least a 50/50 prospect anyway. I think the issue for some is that they eschewed the pass rusher throughout this draft when I think by and large Bill didn't like this draft for some reason. The lockout may have had something to do with it and not wanting to invest in those players whose development takes more time anyway. He went T, DB, RB, QB, RB...positions he already (at least though at the time ) had filled for the time being.

 

[BradyBranch39]

I don't know, but I do know that I want us to sign Hoyer to a ~3 year contract and trade Mallett. That should tell you something.

 

[Patspsycho]

The Pats didn't draft Mallett with the expectation that he will be Brady's replacement. The Pats drafted him because they felt he would be a good addition to the team over the next four years.

What makes you say that?

 

[Elijah T.]

I don't know, but I do know that I want us to sign Hoyer to a ~3 year contract and trade Mallett. That should tell you something.

Why?

A few weeks back Belichick was asked about Mallett's development. After giving the standard "he's doing what we ask him to do", he began to reminisce about when Phil Simms first came into the league and they were both with the Giants. He went on about how in Simms' first year he ran the scout team (like Mallett now), and how he knew that Simms was a legit quarterback by the decisions and throws he made in his first year while practicing against a set defense that "knew" what was coming.

Of course BB came back to himself and said "I'm not saying he's going to be Phil Simms"...But it was obvious something jogged BB's computer like memory back to those days.. He later said "Mallett has made some impressive throws".

I've listened to Belichick enough to know that he knows he has something more than a scout team QB in Mallett.

 

[IllegalContact]

They drafted him because they could. I think the expectation is they could put some sweat equity into him and see where that led. Best case scenario, a tradeable commodity to one of the other teams that had a first round grade on him talent wise. Second best case scenario a viable backup to Brady as soon as 2012 if there is a market for Hoyer. Third best scenario a viable backup for Brady by 2013. Worst case scenario a wasted #74 draft pick which is probably at least a 50/50 prospect anyway. I think the issue for some is that they eschewed the pass rusher throughout this draft when I think by and large Bill didn't like this draft for some reason. The lockout may have had something to do with it and not wanting to invest in those players whose development takes more time anyway. He went T, DB, RB, QB, RB...positions he already (at least though at the time ) had filled for the time being.

they make every draft pick 'because they can'

your scenario really doesn't make any sense at all