As Good as it Gets

[RobertWeathers]

Look, I like Ty Law a lot. He came up big in some important games, but as good as he was, he is not the equal of Revis and it is unlikely that that he will ever make Canton. He was twice selected All Pro and made the Pro Bowl five times. Revis has now made All Pro five times. For comparison, ex-Patriot Mike Haynes, who is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, was All Pro five times and sent to the Pro Bowl nine times.

We can agree that Revis > Law.

I think one can make a strong case for Law as a HoF player. Winning SBs and making big plays in the playoffs (vs PM especially) stick out in voter's minds...

 

[PScottman]

(though Pass Rush is ????)

When the scheme calls for pressure, this team has produced. The scheme in at least six games was contain vice rush given the running ability of quarterbacks from the Jets, Green Bay, Indy, Miami, etc.

Take that schematic choice to task if you must, but placing the blame on the players is ill-formed as anecdotally there have been several instances of key sacks or pressures by this defense this year.

 

[PScottman]

while Dillon wasn't in his athletic prime in 2004, he was all-pro caliber.

This point leads to the greater question - could it be argued that 2004 was a more balanced offense when taken in the context of looking at what the opposing defense had to plan for in their game planning efforts?

Right now, if I'm any of the playoff teams - I'm doing exactly what BB did against Fivehead last year in the regular season game - let em run, let em run, let em run. Be confident in getting them in quite a few 3d and longs just with the poor blocking that's been shown the last 3-4 weeks of the season and then tee off on the long developing routes via the pass rush.

That remains my biggest fear - that the team will continue to show five wide or single back flex wide, no threat of any run, doing half the defense's (and opposing DC's) job for them by making themselves one dimensional.

 

[Oswlek]

Maybe, maybe not better than 2003, 2005, 2006.

2005? I'm struggling to find even a hint of reasoning to suggest 2005 is on par with this team. That team was only marginally better than the 2009 squad. 2006 isn't quite as puzzling, but isn't really on the higher levels as well. There's a reason why it took about 3 different miracles just to get past round two.

 

[RobertWeathers]

This point leads to the greater question - could it be argued that 2004 was a more balanced offense when taken in the context of looking at what the opposing defense had to plan for in their game planning efforts?

Right now, if I'm any of the playoff teams - I'm doing exactly what BB did against Fivehead last year in the regular season game - let em run, let em run, let em run. Be confident in getting them in quite a few 3d and longs just with the poor blocking that's been shown the last 3-4 weeks of the season and then tee off on the long developing routes via the pass rush.

That remains my biggest fear - that the team will continue to show five wide or single back flex wide, no threat of any run, doing half the defense's (and opposing DC's) job for them by making themselves one dimensional.

I think that 2004 team was a team of the ages. They could run 4 WR. They could sit back and play power football with 2 TEs. They would win high scoring games. They could win defensive wars.

It can't go unsaid that to lose your top two CBs, #1 draft pick and starting DT from the season before and still go 14-2 and win the SB is unheard of.

I contend that if played in 2014, that 04 offense would still score 30+ ppg.

 

[Oswlek]

It can't go unsaid that to lose your top two CBs, #1 draft pick and starting DT from the season before and still go 14-2 and win the SB is unheard of.

Not only win, but nearly shut out one of the greatest offenses of all time, throw a 40-burger on the #1 defense in their stadium and then take down what might have been the second best team of the entire decade in reasonably comfortable fashion.

2004 was one of the greatest teams of all time.

 

[RobertWeathers]

2004 was one of the greatest teams of all time.

robertweathers' list

#5 1984 49ers
#3 1972 'Fins
#4 2004 NEP
#2 1985 Bears
#1 1978 Steelers

With their full compliment of players, I think they beat #3 and #4.

I think vs the Bears and Steelers, the 04 o-line has a real hard time vs those defenses.

 

[p8ryts]

I don't think the 2001 team matches up in any way to this year's squad.

2003 and 2004? Decent receivers, but no Gronk. 2014, very good (LaFell) to really good (Edelman) receivers plus a healthy and absolutely dominant Gronk.

Dillon > Blount or Gray.
2014 Brady > 2003/2004 Brady

Also, I think this defense is the most talented from top to bottom that we've ever had.

So I agree.

The best defense had Ted Washington at NT

 

[Oswlek]

robertweathers' list

#5 1984 49ers
#3 1972 'Fins
#4 2004 NEP
#2 1985 Bears
#1 1978 Steelers

With their full compliment of players, I think they beat #3 and #4.

I think vs the Bears and Steelers, the 04 o-line has a real hard time vs those defenses.

Looks good, though I could probably come up with at least 20 teams I think are better than the '72 Fins, including several that didn't even win the SB.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I could probably come up with at least 20 teams I think are better than the '72 Fins, including several that didn't even win the SB.

Agreed. They were not the best team but going undefeated IMO carries a lot of weight.

When I play the what-if game, if 19-0 happens I don't that team is better than my #1, #2 and #3 but better than #4 and #5

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

When the scheme calls for pressure, this team has produced. The scheme in at least six games was contain vice rush given the running ability of quarterbacks from the Jets, Green Bay, Indy, Miami, etc.

Take that schematic choice to task if you must, but placing the blame on the players is ill-formed as anecdotally there have been several instances of key sacks or pressures by this defense this year.

You overlooked the "???" in my statement "Pass Rush is ????".
The Pass Rush has been 'de-emphasized' at certain times, not in others. Looking at all instances -- where you may see it differently -- the Pass Rush is worthy of a ????. As to whether it's scheme, players, combination of both?? Personnel is definitely a consideration though I am interested in seeing what they do rested, healthy and prepared.

 

[sb1]

2001 was absolutely not a more talented Patriots team than 2014.

The defense was suffocating in 2003. 2004 was a complete team, really well balanced.

I think both those teams beat the 2007 version of the Pats in the Super Bowl like the Giants did.

 

[Jimke]

This current Patriot's team is the best defensively in recent years. It is a better overall team
than the Ravens. The question is whether Belichick can get a better performance out of his
players than Harbaugh. I suspect that the offensive line will break down and allow several
sacks and the Ravens will prevail 31 to 13.

 

[deters]

The championship defenses we had were clutch, but imo slightly inferior in talent of what we have now. This defense needs to prove they can make clutch plays in the playoffs. I have no doubt this team is one of the most talented we've had in the BB era and certainly since 2008, now they just need to show it when it matters most.