Cool Link Article: Bill O' Brien, Mac Jones and the Offense

[Real fan 02]

It's about being clutch, in control and no situation too big.

Agree.. but burrow didn't have to do many 4th qb come backs.. nor did Mahomes.. I mean yes they occasionally did but more often than not thier teams were ahead in games.

 

[Ivan]

These are the same guys who told us we had no talent in 2014, 2016 and 2018.

Oh how I wish Ian had an open archive to past seasons. 2014 after the Chef’s game was my favorite stretch of outrage.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

help me out then BGC. I don't disagree one bit with your quote above. There is very little "quick twitchiness" from Mac over the last two years. But I thought the 3 cone drill was designed to give teams an INDICATION of "quickness/twitchiness" in athletes and while 7.04 is a marginal time for a DB, it it a very good one in a QB. So why has the guy who ran that time, shown so little of the athleticism it took to get that time?

Is the drill bad or misleading. Are there others that might do it better?

Take it from someone who can recite more 3C times than the collective board. You're putting way too much stock into the 3C. I've heard you bring it in the past but here's the thing Ken. And you already know but never forget. Tape/what you actually see > #'s/drills that are taught nowadays.

There's too many examples to choose from but one of the easiest is Josh Boyce. One of the fastest players on paper. Ran a blazing 40 but couldn't utilize it in game and use that speed for actual NFL routes. Some players run fast, others play fast. So always beware of players who time well but it doesn't show up on film. It didn't in college for Mac either. It's not just the pros if we're being honest. He showed 0 quick twitch at Bama too. That's simply NOT an opinion. Which might bother some but oh well. Sorry I prefer to actually evaluate, judge and make predictions on what I see. Not testing #'s. Those are the dessert not the main course.

I remember telling you about Kupp a while back. He tested poorly but was like the fastest or second fastest player at the SR Bowl. The Rams saw the live #'s, showing he ran like 20+mph on a field and were hoping he'd fall.

Athletic testing is verification of what you see on the field. If you don't see it on the field that's a huge red flag. And we've never seen it with Mac.

Now I've been calling for RPO since we drafted him. You don't really need quicks for that and Jones ran it to perfection at Bama. I've been calling for more downfield rpo in my thread for years now. The NFL still can't defend them and the refs aren't looking to make an example or call anything tight bc there's a fine line with downfield rpo but teams are missing out. Especially one with a guy that ran so many at Bama. Again Mac ran a RPO offense at Bama. He's well versed.

Mac's parents were both accomplished tennis players; his father was MVP on the 1977 NAIA champions and played professionally. His mother and sister played collegiately too.

Tennis is actually a fast twitch game. No way Mac lacks fast twitch abilities. BGC made that up.

I'm not sure if you understand how foolish you sound but I have time.

What someone's parents did is a foot note in a scouting report. For a reason. Not something you hang an argument on or even bring up unless you're desperate or don't know what you're talking about. And it's clear from your many, obsessive troll/homer post
You have no actual insight or knowledge to stand on. Your post show that over and over. I'd love to see one that made a real point, enlightened someone on something or help someone learn something new. Only derpy stuff like "HeREs OnE foR ThE TroLLs" or "bgc made that up."

Now we know you like to lie about people you disagree with and have no knowledge bc I don't make stuff up. I wouldn't be posting here on the subjects I do if I were making things up.

Basically you're saying Mac's parents played tennis. You need "fast twitch" to play tennis. Mac has fast twitch.
You're not getting into any other detail. Or providing any actual evidence. Or actual insight.
So yea that's an incredibly dumb and naive thing to say and assume. And you're doing a lot of assuming.

The fact that Mac's parents played tennis decades ago contributes very little besides background we already knew. Bc it's been brought up by me and others years ago.
Congrats on adding nothing.

We see players test well literally every single year but can't translate their athleticism on the field. A good 3C for example is a great box to check but like what someone's parents did. It's just that, a nice box you check. What you actually see on film is more important.

Film is the ultimate resource. Multiple games, seasons don't lie. And I've watch more than anyone here. By far.
As someone who's actually watch multiple A22 games of him in college/pros. It ain't there.

This is what Mac can do. He can take advantage of easy yards when no one is there. He can scramble a little bit for sure but he's not someone who's displayed quickness on the football field.



If something opens up. Sure he can take advantage of open grass.


When things get tight. The closer the pressure is or closes up. He has no chance and displays no quickness. Through a tight hole or bouncing it out to the flat when his targets are covered.


He's not someone you'd describe as a quick twitch athlete though. Whether his parents played tennis or not lol. We have years of actual video evidence.

This isn't a quick twitch athlete.



From Waldman ...
"(Running) The Worst: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to
stop, hope the defender overruns his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to
outrun any level of defender except for a tired defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones
sneaks through a hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his
elbow is loose. He slides before he gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.

Scrambling: This is what defenses want to make Jones do. If NFL analysts are writing about Jones’ scrambling in the future, his career-life
will be an in a sad place. He can make multiple defenders miss with precise movement in the pocket, but buying time behind the line of
scrimmage as a runner looking to pass will rarely be a successful occurrence in Jones’ game.
Running: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to stop, hope the defender overruns
his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to outrun any level of defender except for a tired
defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones sneaks through a
hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his elbow is loose. He slides before he
gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.
He uses his right arm working up the left side of the field. Switching the ball would be ideal."

Honestly this is something that's been discussed and understood by people that have been doing this a long time. If Mac Jones was a quick twitch athlete it wouldn't have escaped guys like Waldman or me. And NFL personnel who get paid to utilize players would be taking advantage of every drop of his athleticism. There's reason they're not.

@Kasmir you seem like a fan but not someone with actual football insight or anything. I can dig up post that have outlined Mac in detail before he took a rep for us. I'm objective, provide detail and thorough.

I can tell you Mac had about 60 tight window throws in college and the game against TAMU displayed those tight windows more than most. While you couldn't tell anything worthwhile about Mac besides something anyone can look up. I could talk to you about his inconsistent 10/2 release while you have to look up what I'm talking about. Appreciate the passion but accusing someone of making stuff up who's forgotten more than you'll know isn't the way to get a point across.

I would make it a point to start somewhere small. Like learn a specific defensive offensive concept and go from there. This way you have something you can bring besides nothing post that call people trolls or homers. Not telling you what to do, just a suggestion.

 

[Wozzy]

Mac has about as much "quick twitch" as Joe Montana and he who shall not be named... chances are he never amounts to nothing.

 

[captain stone]

He’s 241 pounds. How effective can he be, even if he’s willing? Overrated as a blocker.

There's a video Uptown recently posted in the Things I've Heard thread in which someone shows how assignments traditionally executed by FBs are now being done not only by FBs but also by TEs, big WRs, Halfbacks, 6th OLmen... FB usage went Up last season for the first time in like 15 years, so players at Frisker's size can absolutely be effective enough, especially with sweeps, whams, motion etc... I really, really hope he's not a victim of Cut-Down Day just so another "coverage ace" can be kept.

 

[Kasmir]

Take it from someone who can recite more 3C times than the collective board. You're putting way too much stock into the 3C. I've heard you bring it in the past but here's the thing Ken. And you already know but never forget. Tape/what you actually see > #'s/drills that are taught nowadays.

There's too many examples to choose from but one of the easiest is Josh Boyce. One of the fastest players on paper. Ran a blazing 40 but couldn't utilize it in game and use that speed for actual NFL routes. Some players run fast, others play fast. So always beware of players who time well but it doesn't show up on film. It didn't in college for Mac either. It's not just the pros if we're being honest. He showed 0 quick twitch at Bama too. That's simply NOT an opinion. Which might bother some but oh well. Sorry I prefer to actually evaluate, judge and make predictions on what I see. Not testing #'s. Those are the dessert not the main course.

I remember telling you about Kupp a while back. He tested poorly but was like the fastest or second fastest player at the SR Bowl. The Rams saw the live #'s, showing he ran like 20+mph on a field and were hoping he'd fall.

Athletic testing is verification of what you see on the field. If you don't see it on the field that's a huge red flag. And we've never seen it with Mac.

Now I've been calling for RPO since we drafted him. You don't really need quicks for that and Jones ran it to perfection at Bama. I've been calling for more downfield rpo in my thread for years now. The NFL still can't defend them and the refs aren't looking to make an example or call anything tight bc there's a fine line with downfield rpo but teams are missing out. Especially one with a guy that ran so many at Bama. Again Mac ran a RPO offense at Bama. He's well versed.

I'm not sure if you understand how foolish you sound but I have time.

What someone's parents did is a foot note in a scouting report. For a reason. Not something you hang an argument on or even bring up unless you're desperate or don't know what you're talking about. And it's clear from your many, obsessive troll/homer post
You have no actual insight or knowledge to stand on. Your post show that over and over. I'd love to see one that made a real point, enlightened someone on something or help someone learn something new. Only derpy stuff like "HeREs OnE foR ThE TroLLs" or "bgc made that up."

Now we know you like to lie about people you disagree with and have no knowledge bc I don't make stuff up. I wouldn't be posting here on the subjects I do if I were making things up.

Basically you're saying Mac's parents played tennis. You need "fast twitch" to play tennis. Mac has fast twitch.
You're not getting into any other detail. Or providing any actual evidence. Or actual insight.
So yea that's an incredibly dumb and naive thing to say and assume. And you're doing a lot of assuming.

The fact that Mac's parents played tennis decades ago contributes very little besides background we already knew. Bc it's been brought up by me and others years ago.
Congrats on adding nothing.

We see players test well literally every single year but can't translate their athleticism on the field. A good 3C for example is a great box to check but like what someone's parents did. It's just that, a nice box you check. What you actually see on film is more important.

Film is the ultimate resource. Multiple games, seasons don't lie. And I've watch more than anyone here. By far.
As someone who's actually watch multiple A22 games of him in college/pros. It ain't there.

This is what Mac can do. He can take advantage of easy yards when no one is there. He can scramble a little bit for sure but he's not someone who's displayed quickness on the football field.



If something opens up. Sure he can take advantage of open grass.


When things get tight. The closer the pressure is or closes up. He has no chance and displays no quickness. Through a tight hole or bouncing it out to the flat when his targets are covered.


He's not someone you'd describe as a quick twitch athlete though. Whether his parents played tennis or not lol. We have years of actual video evidence.

This isn't a quick twitch athlete.



From Waldman ...
"(Running) The Worst: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to
stop, hope the defender overruns his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to
outrun any level of defender except for a tired defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones
sneaks through a hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his
elbow is loose. He slides before he gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.

Scrambling: This is what defenses want to make Jones do. If NFL analysts are writing about Jones’ scrambling in the future, his career-life
will be an in a sad place. He can make multiple defenders miss with precise movement in the pocket, but buying time behind the line of
scrimmage as a runner looking to pass will rarely be a successful occurrence in Jones’ game.
Running: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to stop, hope the defender overruns
his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to outrun any level of defender except for a tired
defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones sneaks through a
hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his elbow is loose. He slides before he
gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.
He uses his right arm working up the left side of the field. Switching the ball would be ideal."

Honestly this is something that's been discussed and understood by people that have been doing this a long time. If Mac Jones was a quick twitch athlete it wouldn't have escaped guys like Waldman or me. And NFL personnel who get paid to utilize players would be taking advantage of every drop of his athleticism. There's reason they're not.

@Kasmir you seem like a fan but not someone with actual football insight or anything. I can dig up post that have outlined Mac in detail before he took a rep for us. I'm objective, provide detail and thorough.

I can tell you Mac had about 60 tight window throws in college and the game against TAMU displayed those tight windows more than most. While you couldn't tell anything worthwhile about Mac besides something anyone can look up. I could talk to you about his inconsistent 10/2 release while you have to look up what I'm talking about. Appreciate the passion but accusing someone of making stuff up who's forgotten more than you'll know isn't the way to get a point across.

I would make it a point to start somewhere small. Like learn a specific defensive offensive concept and go from there. This way you have something you can bring besides nothing post that call people trolls or homers. Not telling you what to do, just a suggestion.

Hope you feel better after that. I certainly don't appreciate the ad homs, so there's that. Don't think you understand what "quick twitch" means.

I've several times praised you for the pre-draft work you do here which is unequalled and invaluable.

Aside from the hard work and the film study you do, I'm not so sure about your original insight; I certainly disagree with lots of your opinions, particularly your endless parroting of the death-of-pocket QB's meme. Pretty unseemly on a Pats board with Tom Brady barely in his grave.

You've never answered my question about what would happen if Tom Brady were entering the game today because you have no good answer for that: either you are saying the GOAT is not good enough for today's game (hah!) or that your fellow dual-threat travelers would deny him even a 6th round chance today. Something's wrong with that thinking either way.

 

[Tunescribe]

Take it from someone who can recite more 3C times than the collective board. You're putting way too much stock into the 3C. I've heard you bring it in the past but here's the thing Ken. And you already know but never forget. Tape/what you actually see > #'s/drills that are taught nowadays.

There's too many examples to choose from but one of the easiest is Josh Boyce. One of the fastest players on paper. Ran a blazing 40 but couldn't utilize it in game and use that speed for actual NFL routes. Some players run fast, others play fast. So always beware of players who time well but it doesn't show up on film. It didn't in college for Mac either. It's not just the pros if we're being honest. He showed 0 quick twitch at Bama too. That's simply NOT an opinion. Which might bother some but oh well. Sorry I prefer to actually evaluate, judge and make predictions on what I see. Not testing #'s. Those are the dessert not the main course.

I remember telling you about Kupp a while back. He tested poorly but was like the fastest or second fastest player at the SR Bowl. The Rams saw the live #'s, showing he ran like 20+mph on a field and were hoping he'd fall.

Athletic testing is verification of what you see on the field. If you don't see it on the field that's a huge red flag. And we've never seen it with Mac.

Now I've been calling for RPO since we drafted him. You don't really need quicks for that and Jones ran it to perfection at Bama. I've been calling for more downfield rpo in my thread for years now. The NFL still can't defend them and the refs aren't looking to make an example or call anything tight bc there's a fine line with downfield rpo but teams are missing out. Especially one with a guy that ran so many at Bama. Again Mac ran a RPO offense at Bama. He's well versed.

I'm not sure if you understand how foolish you sound but I have time.

What someone's parents did is a foot note in a scouting report. For a reason. Not something you hang an argument on or even bring up unless you're desperate or don't know what you're talking about. And it's clear from your many, obsessive troll/homer post
You have no actual insight or knowledge to stand on. Your post show that over and over. I'd love to see one that made a real point, enlightened someone on something or help someone learn something new. Only derpy stuff like "HeREs OnE foR ThE TroLLs" or "bgc made that up."

Now we know you like to lie about people you disagree with and have no knowledge bc I don't make stuff up. I wouldn't be posting here on the subjects I do if I were making things up.

Basically you're saying Mac's parents played tennis. You need "fast twitch" to play tennis. Mac has fast twitch.
You're not getting into any other detail. Or providing any actual evidence. Or actual insight.
So yea that's an incredibly dumb and naive thing to say and assume. And you're doing a lot of assuming.

The fact that Mac's parents played tennis decades ago contributes very little besides background we already knew. Bc it's been brought up by me and others years ago.
Congrats on adding nothing.

We see players test well literally every single year but can't translate their athleticism on the field. A good 3C for example is a great box to check but like what someone's parents did. It's just that, a nice box you check. What you actually see on film is more important.

Film is the ultimate resource. Multiple games, seasons don't lie. And I've watch more than anyone here. By far.
As someone who's actually watch multiple A22 games of him in college/pros. It ain't there.

This is what Mac can do. He can take advantage of easy yards when no one is there. He can scramble a little bit for sure but he's not someone who's displayed quickness on the football field.



If something opens up. Sure he can take advantage of open grass.


When things get tight. The closer the pressure is or closes up. He has no chance and displays no quickness. Through a tight hole or bouncing it out to the flat when his targets are covered.


He's not someone you'd describe as a quick twitch athlete though. Whether his parents played tennis or not lol. We have years of actual video evidence.

This isn't a quick twitch athlete.



From Waldman ...
"(Running) The Worst: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to
stop, hope the defender overruns his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to
outrun any level of defender except for a tired defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones
sneaks through a hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his
elbow is loose. He slides before he gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.

Scrambling: This is what defenses want to make Jones do. If NFL analysts are writing about Jones’ scrambling in the future, his career-life
will be an in a sad place. He can make multiple defenders miss with precise movement in the pocket, but buying time behind the line of
scrimmage as a runner looking to pass will rarely be a successful occurrence in Jones’ game.
Running: Jones is a slow pocket quarterback whose best opportunity to earn yardage against pursuit is to stop, hope the defender overruns
his angle, and then get whatever he can before additional pursuit arrives. He’s unlikely to outrun any level of defender except for a tired
defensive tackle chasing him from behind into wide-open space.
When he breaks the pocket, he can move the chains in situations where the defensive front has earned a push and Jones sneaks through a
hole and the linebackers in zone are further downfield. When this happens, he tucks the ball high but his elbow is loose. He slides before he
gets close enough for linebackers and safeties to legally hit him.
He uses his right arm working up the left side of the field. Switching the ball would be ideal."

Honestly this is something that's been discussed and understood by people that have been doing this a long time. If Mac Jones was a quick twitch athlete it wouldn't have escaped guys like Waldman or me. And NFL personnel who get paid to utilize players would be taking advantage of every drop of his athleticism. There's reason they're not.

@Kasmir you seem like a fan but not someone with actual football insight or anything. I can dig up post that have outlined Mac in detail before he took a rep for us. I'm objective, provide detail and thorough.

I can tell you Mac had about 60 tight window throws in college and the game against TAMU displayed those tight windows more than most. While you couldn't tell anything worthwhile about Mac besides something anyone can look up. I could talk to you about his inconsistent 10/2 release while you have to look up what I'm talking about. Appreciate the passion but accusing someone of making stuff up who's forgotten more than you'll know isn't the way to get a point across.

I would make it a point to start somewhere small. Like learn a specific defensive offensive concept and go from there. This way you have something you can bring besides nothing post that call people trolls or homers. Not telling you what to do, just a suggestion.

Swatting flies with a sledgehammer can be kinda hard on the ol' drywall.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Hope you feel better after that. I certainly don't appreciate the ad homs, so there's that. Don't think you understand what "quick twitch" means.

You're saying Mac Jones displays quick twitch but I don't know what it means?

I've several times praised you for the pre-draft work you do here which is unequalled and invaluable.

Aside from the hard work and the film study you do, I'm not so sure about your original insight;

Yes original thought. Like telling you who'll be drafted high almost a year before it happens. Like being on point about the value on the majority of prospects who come out.

Original thought like when I said Mac could tighten up his mechanics. Possibly unlock some velocity in his release before anyone else and well before he went to House.

Or explaining to board that Bill hides his LB in coverage when everyone is wrong and going on about complaining how bad they are in man. Like people were complaining about things that weren't happening and you see other posters repeating it. Yes it's good to know what you're talking about for a specific discussion.

Or talk about how important Brady’s back foot is to his downfield accuracy. Most QBs have to lift it off the ground to reach a certain velocity but sacrifice accuracy.

Yes I've been wrong before but there's plenty of original thought and opinions. I'd much rather say something of substance than "Mac's parents played tennis he must have quick twitch" or "Mac has about as much quick twitch as Joe Montana" Just empty things that add and mean nothing.

I certainly disagree with lots of your opinions, particularly your endless parroting of the death-of-pocket QB's meme. Pretty unseemly on a Pats board with Tom Brady barely in his grave.

This has been explained to you and others repeatedly. I'm beginning to think you're either dense, very stubborn, don't want to learn or not the smartest when it comes to this subject. Which is fine. There's plenty of things I'm not familiar with. I wouldn't walk into a garage and tell a mechanic how to operate or work for example.

The QB position has changed. That's not my opinion or anyone else's. It's changed. You absolutely have to be able to pass to win but all you need are eyes to see how it's changed.

Yes pocket passers have been on the decline in terms of being drafted early or starting. That's not an opinion its fact. Again all you have to do is look around the league and open your eyes. There are no true traditional pocket passers anymore. It's really not hard to decipher. Let's see which ones are traditional pocket passers.

Josh Allen - no


Tua - RPO Boy/Slant Man? No


Rodgers - he's allergic to the MOF and lived outside the pocket for so long. He wins from pocket but far from traditional if we're being objective.


Lamar - no


Mac - sure but even ran an rpo/screen offense in college that got him drafted 15th overall.

Anthony Richardson - no


Hurts - no

Trevor Lawrence - no

Ryan Tannehill - take away PA, strong running game and scheme yac touches. Works outside the pocket a lot. Can he drop back and just beat you scanning the field? I think most would agree he can't. Hardly a drop back, traditional pocket passer. And he's ran for over 2k yards.


Mahomes - no


Burrow - very close. His mobility is huge. He wins a ton outside the pocket. Top 5-6 in the league I believe with Geno, Mahomes, Hurts and Tua. Again he wins from inside the pocket but does so much more that Hurts the defense.


Fields - no


Dak - Idk again you have to ask yourself how confident you are in his decision making at times. I won't argue him but exactly the best under the conditions you're stating or just as a traditional pocket passer but I'll give you him if you want.


Watson - no


Herbert - yes and no. He's a terminator built different but mostly yes.


Cousins - yes


Stafford - yes

(Carr -

Goff -

Geno Smith -

Jimmy G -

(Baker -

all of these guys are extremely similar to Tannehill. The need a strong running game complemented by PA, designed runs/touches/motion. The need scheme in every way to succeed. Goff and Tannehill are so similar. I mean look at Jimmy when he's forced to drop back and just win when the games on the line. None are what I would call traditional or pocket passers at all. They all need a system and aren't the system.


Daniel Jones - no. Best thing about him is his legs.

Pickett - no


Russell Wilson - no


Jordan Love - no


Ridder - no


Murray - no


Idk that's like 25 guys and maybe 3-4 are what most would describe as traditional or a pocket passer?

This isn't hard to grasp if you're objective and just look at who's playing. Who's being drafted high and starting. Playing in.and winning SB's.

All I had to do is list a few QB's.

You've never answered my question about what would happen if Tom Brady were entering the game today because you have no good answer for that: either you are saying the GOAT is not good enough for today's game (hah!) or that your fellow dual-threat travelers would deny him even a 6th round chance today. Something's wrong with that thinking either way.

Again the problem with this is you're assuming things again. Which tells me you like to project and already have you're mind made up. You should be more open minded in your 70's? I believe you said?

I hope I make it that long so congrats but again don't start off with "either you are saying the GOAT is not enough for todays game." Some other dumb nonsense I don't care to understand. And then say "Something's wrong with that thinking either way."

How am I supposed to know what would happen if Brady entered the game today? That doesn't interest me at all and means nothing. He would be great, that's my answer.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Agree.. but burrow didn't have to do many 4th qb come backs.. nor did Mahomes.. I mean yes they occasionally did but more often than not thier teams were ahead in games.

Mahomes has had 13 fourth-quarter comebacks in 5 years. Projected to 20 years he'd have 52, which would easily be number 1 in NFL history.

 

[Wozzy]

I love this Mac isn't athletic enough conversation.

The most successful QB in league history, who won a ring as late as 2020, was the least athletic player on the field for two decades.

Passers are pro golfers, it's about brains and motor control more than athleticism... give us a break.

 

[All3Phases]

I love this Mac isn't athletic enough conversation.

The most successful QB in league history, who won a ring as late as 2020, was the least athletic player on the field for two decades.

Passers are pro golfers, it's about brains and motor control more than athleticism... give us a break.

as years go by, things change. Athleticism in the position matters now more than it did 10 years ago and so on...Just like its a huge part of golf now

But I dont think Macs athleticism is what is keeping him from being elite

 

[Wozzy]

as years go by, things change. Athleticism in the position matters now more than it did 10 years ago and so on...Just like its a huge part of golf now

No it doesn't. We've been hearing how running QB's were going to revolutionize the game long before Randall Cunningham entered the NFL back in the 80's... then again with Vick.

The best QB in history was the guy who couldn't run.

The last three Super Bowl winners were Mahomes, Stafford, Brady... when do these running QB's begin to produce results?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I love this Mac isn't athletic enough conversation.

Nobody is saying Mac "isn't athletic enough." It's really not hard to follow unless you're trying to derail and distract. You love saying things that don't matter or have little meaning to the topic. Like you just randomly chime in with useless stuff. Like "Mac was about as athletic as Joe Montana and another QB that I won't name" like thanks for that contribution Wozzy.

It was about a specific subject and it's more than obvious he's not the quickest athlete. That's not a hot take at all.

And Mac will never win bc of his athleticism. His upside is all mental and between the ears.

I'm noticing a pattern here though. Some of you older guys lost your fast ball and are living in the past. A little harsh but it's the truth.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Yea you sound old bro.

 

[Wozzy]

Nobody is saying Mac "isn't athletic enough." It's really not hard to follow unless you're trying to derail and distract. You love saying things that don't matter or have little meaning to the topic. Like you just randomly chime in with useless stuff. Like "Mac was about as athletic as Joe Montana and another QB that I won't name" like thanks for that contribution Wozzy.

It was about a specific subject and it's more than obvious he's not the quickest athlete. That's not a hot take at all.

And Mac will never win bc of his athleticism. His upside is all mental and between the ears.

I'm noticing a pattern here though. Some of you older guys lost your fast ball and are living in the past. A little harsh but it's the truth.

He Who Shall Not Be Named
6-4 211
5.24 forty
24.5" vertical
99" broad
4.38 Shuttle
7.20 Cone

Patrick Mahomes
6-2 225
4.80 forty
30.0" vertical
113" broad
4.08 shuttle
6.88 cone

Mac Jones
6-3 217
4.83 forty
32.0" vertical
116" broad
4.39 shuttle
7.04 cone

Mac will never be quick enough... laughable.

 

[Wozzy]

Yea you sound old bro.

From the generation living in their parent's basement.

 

[All3Phases]

No it doesn't. We've been hearing how running QB's were going to revolutionize the game long before Randall Cunningham entered the NFL back in the 80's... then again with Vick.

I dont think athleticism refers just to the running ability. Mahomes is a great athlete for the position, as is Allen, Burrow, Hurts, Lamar, Rodgers in his prime, etc. If they can harness that ability, then its only a benefit

The best QB in history was the guy who couldn't run.

The last three Super Bowl winners were Mahomes, Stafford, Brady... when do these running QB's begin to produce results?

I didnt say they needed to be super athletes to win, just that the position is evolving. Both 3/4 qbs in the last 2 super bowls were great athletes. They still need to be able to throw from the pocket, simply being athletic is a factor that increases the margin of error for the offense. Being able to escape pressure for example

Similar to how you were wrong about golfers today, athleticism matters...clearly not the only thing, but it certainly matters more than it ever has

 

[Wozzy]

I dont think athleticism refers just to the running ability. Mahomes is a great athlete for the position, as is Allen, Burrow, Hurts, Lamar, Rodgers in his prime, etc. If they can harness that ability, then its only a benefit

I didnt say they needed to be super athletes to win, just that the position is evolving. Both 3/4 qbs in the last 2 super bowls were great athletes. They still need to be able to throw from the pocket, simply being athletic is a factor that increases the margin of error for the offense. Being able to escape pressure for example

The job is passing.

Burrow, Herbert... these guys are pocket passers, Mahomes is dangerous because he can be a pocket passer.

Also the position isn't evolving, if anything it's devolving. Before the invention of the forward pass, running was all there was.

 

[Real fan 02]

Mahomes has had 13 fourth-quarter comebacks in 5 years. Projected to 20 years he'd have 52, which would easily be number 1 in NFL history.

I often look at come backs as wins.. like I'd like to know how many resulted in wins.. and Mahomes his offenses were so superior to the pathetic defenses put around him those years. He scored dam near every possession.. problem is so did the other teams. Majority of our come backs were when our defenses those years 2010-2013.. the when defense was rebuilding... when we were giving up 400 yards passing.. Brady had to bring us back late often in games.

 

[All3Phases]

The job is passing.

Burrow, Herbert... these guys are pocket passers, Mahomes is dangerous because he can be a pocket passer.

Also the position isn't evolving, if anything it's devolving. Before the invention of the forward pass, running was all there was.

Yes, and a large part of the job is to be able to create throwing windows, escape pressure and buy time. Something athleticism is clearly helping these younger quarterbacks. Mahomes is dangerous because hes an elite passer and decision maker, along with being athletic enough to extend plays, escape pressure and create plays from nothing. Same with Allen, Burrow, Hurts, etc.