Are you anti-Roger Goodell?

[flasox27]

The NY crowd will cheer him like a hero after the the screwing he gave the Pats.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

this isn't going to make me very popular, but we're forgetting that Goodell was under intense pressure from the media, fans, players and other teams to suspend Belichick for anywhere from one game to the season and to make the Patriots forfeit the Jets game, both of which would have been excessive. He also kept quiet about BB's admission of taping back to 2000 and originally dismissed Matt Walsh. Finally, he clearly exonerated the Pats from charges of "cheating" in the Jets game. He made it clear that he was handing down a stiff penalty for violating a rule that had been emphasized to every team and not for "cheating" or being the beneficiaries of "cheating."

Could he have handled things better, especially by controlling his office's interactions with the media where there seemed to be a leak a day in September? Yes. Did he screw the Patriots? No.

 

[Deus Irae]

this isn't going to make me very popular, but we're forgetting that Goodell was under intense pressure from the media, fans, players and other teams to suspend Belichick for anywhere from one game to the season and to make the Patriots forfeit the Jets game, both of which would have been excessive. He also kept quiet about BB's admission of taping back to 2000 and originally dismissed Matt Walsh. Finally, he clearly exonerated the Pats from charges of "cheating" in the Jets game. He made it clear that he was handing down a stiff penalty for violating a rule that had been emphasized to every team and not for "cheating" or being the beneficiaries of "cheating."

Could he have handled things better, especially by controlling his office's interactions with the media where there seemed to be a leak a day in September? Yes. Did he screw the Patriots? No.

If you compare penalties and 'crimes' and give Goodell all the 'benefit', this is what happened:

New England tried to steal an opponent's defensive signals by placing a non-Polaroid type of camera in a proscribed location. Stealing signals is not against the rules. What was deemed to be against the rules is merely the manner in which New England was doing it.

San Francisco tried to steal another team's starting linebacker. Tampering with players under contract to another team is against the rules.


For this, New England got pounded with the most severe fine in the history of the league and the 49ers lost a 5th round pick. Yes, he did screw New England.

 

[BSR]

this isn't going to make me very popular, but we're forgetting that Goodell was under intense pressure from the media, fans, players and other teams to suspend Belichick for anywhere from one game to the season and to make the Patriots forfeit the Jets game, both of which would have been excessive. He also kept quiet about BB's admission of taping back to 2000 and originally dismissed Matt Walsh. Finally, he clearly exonerated the Pats from charges of "cheating" in the Jets game. He made it clear that he was handing down a stiff penalty for violating a rule that had been emphasized to every team and not for "cheating" or being the beneficiaries of "cheating."

Could he have handled things better, especially by controlling his office's interactions with the media where there seemed to be a leak a day in September? Yes. Did he screw the Patriots? No.

That's the whole point. If he handled it correctly from the get go he wouldn't have had the pressure from the media and fans. If he had an inkling of foresight or media savy and just came out from the beginning and said, "hey its a simple rules violation for having their camera in the wrong place." then this all could have been avoided. And as far as him "making it clear" that it was a stiff penalty for violating a rule that had been emphasized, that is clear to nobody outside of NE. He screwed the Patriots and hung them out to dry.

 

[Pats726]

this isn't going to make me very popular, but we're forgetting that Goodell was under intense pressure from the media, fans, players and other teams to suspend Belichick for anywhere from one game to the season and to make the Patriots forfeit the Jets game, both of which would have been excessive. He also kept quiet about BB's admission of taping back to 2000 and originally dismissed Matt Walsh. Finally, he clearly exonerated the Pats from charges of "cheating" in the Jets game. He made it clear that he was handing down a stiff penalty for violating a rule that had been emphasized to every team and not for "cheating" or being the beneficiaries of "cheating."

Could he have handled things better, especially by controlling his office's interactions with the media where there seemed to be a leak a day in September? Yes. Did he screw the Patriots? No.

So....given the tampering charges and what punishment was given SF...how is what he did NOT screwing the Patriots?? It is still out of line..given the offense..What was given SF was more in line with past penalties..what they did to the Patriots was NOT!! Was what the Patriots did so much worse?? NOT AT ALL...so How is that NOT a screwing of the Patriots?? If it was 10 times worse...yes..BUT it is less so.
Now we may hear that the outcry was strong...but that is a lynch mob mentality and nothing less...if THAT is the type of Cmmsr he is that goes by that, THAT is even worse...as that shows he's gutless. So if that was the case..he's even worse. please tell me what credible media idiot ever suggested a forfeit of the game?? What players or teams suggested that Coach B be suspended?? I think it was a very SMALL percentage if even that..maybe a FEW that the media idiots spotlighted..HARDLY any kind of wave. Now..why didn't he investigate it fully and do it fairly?? he didn't..he acted unjusticely as part of a lynch mob.

 

[flasox27]

I cannot see how anyone can review Goodell's actions and not consider it a royal screwing of the Pats. From the excessive penalty,then the leaking of the Pats tape (I wonder how that investigation is going), to the destruction of the tapes (to protect the other teams that were doing the same thing),to his failure to investigate the Jets taping the Pats and the collusion between the Colts and Titans, he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is both incompetent and biased.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

For my taste, there's just way too much homerism on this point. It's unavoidable, given the overreaction by the league itself, even moreso by the media, and finally by a senator.

We did wrong, we got busted, and Goodell did, in my opinion, pile on. It's even more eggregious given the history in the year between the oft-quoted memo and the Pats' actions, during which other teams in the Pats' own division were "interpreting" rules as well.

But Goodell does not appear to be a Jets shill, he appears to be a guy trying to be taken seriously. He's not the damn antichrist.

Most significantly, we should recognize as Pats fans and as NFL fans, that at the moment, the interests of the Pats and the League are identical, and Goodell's actions, to the extent that they preserve league independence, are very likely to exculpate the Pats.

By the way, check out any other fan sites -- or even talk to actual fans -- from other teams. They all believe Goodell went easy on the Pats. Granted, that's just jealousy. But us saying Goodell was heavy-handed is just homerism by the same token. Bottom line, the Commish decides the penalties. Badda bing, badda boom.

I am not quite as sanguine about the media, however, which never did any digging, even to the extent that they routinely misidentified the year that the "memo" went out (usually by omission -- as if to pour gasoline on the fire.)

PFnV

 

[Joker]

Jet fan...former Jet employee...lifelong New Yorker...New England sports hater...Jetdell is COMPLETE SCUM. The sooner he is deposed as commisioner, the better for the entire league.

 

[flasox27]

No I don't think he is the Anti-Christ. He is just a biased incompetent who screwed the Pats and left them out to dry.
I disagree that our interests and his interests are the same at this time. Goodell's interest is to convey the message that the Pats are a rogue organization and nobody else does it. That is why he destroyed the tapes that would have increiminated other teams. Only an idiot would believe he did for any other reason.
It is in the Pats interest to show what they did was done by many teams and all forms of cheating goes on even though Goodell has swept all the other rules violations under the rug.
Remember the investigation he was going to conduct about who leaked the Pats tape to Fox. I wonder how that came out and who did he punish. LOL
That so called investigation telles you all you need to know about Goodell.

 

[Deus Irae]

For my taste, there's just way too much homerism on this point. It's unavoidable, given the overreaction by the league itself, even moreso by the media, and finally by a senator.

We did wrong, we got busted, and Goodell did, in my opinion, pile on. It's even more eggregious given the history in the year between the oft-quoted memo and the Pats' actions, during which other teams in the Pats' own division were "interpreting" rules as well.

The Patriots did not "did wrong", they did something Commissioner Clouseau punished them for. There's a difference between the two notions. The were doing something that they been allowed to do without issue for more than 5 years, and were doing it openly because they felt they were within the bounds of the rules. When people stop with the "they were wrong" nonsense, the entire scenario changes.

But Goodell does not appear to be a Jets shill, he appears to be a guy trying to be taken seriously. He's not the damn antichrist.

The Patriots insist that the Jets were filming them without permission. This was done in an area of the stadium that did not comport with the very same rule that Goodell insisted was so clear when punishing New England. The Jets were given a complete pass.

Most significantly, we should recognize as Pats fans and as NFL fans, that at the moment, the interests of the Pats and the League are identical, and Goodell's actions, to the extent that they preserve league independence, are very likely to exculpate the Pats.

The interests of the Patriots and the league are by no means identical

By the way, check out any other fan sites -- or even talk to actual fans -- from other teams. They all believe Goodell went easy on the Pats. Granted, that's just jealousy. But us saying Goodell was heavy-handed is just homerism by the same token. Bottom line, the Commish decides the penalties. Badda bing, badda boom.

Actually, the vast majority of fans that I've spoken to about the situation thinks Goodell was insane to hand down that strong a penalty. Not one of those fans thinks New England got off light. We must run in much different circles. Goodell tried to play the tough guy upon taking over and has handed out ridiculous penalties in most of his 'discipline situations', including the Patriots situation. Believing that is not 'homerism', particularly since some of us have been saying it since before the 'spygate' nonsense even happened.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

No I don't think he is the Anti-Christ. He is just a biased incompetent who screwed the Pats and left them out to dry.

Penalties could have been harsher, and could have been lighter. Homers say it was too harsh. Other teams' fans say not harsh enough (except the ones Deus talks to.) There was a rule. The Patriots did break it. There is also no "base law" that explains punishments for each infraction, so Goodell was within his power to hand down his decision. Show me the precedent which makes this punishment "beyond the pale." You cannot. This punishment is a purely subjective determination. I believe the punishment is outsized; but I would be much more certain if there were a sheet of paper saying "taping signals: one fifth round pick and a $50,000 fine." There is no such paper in existence.

I disagree that our interests and his interests are the same at this time. Goodell's interest is to convey the message that the Pats are a rogue organization and nobody else does it. That is why he destroyed the tapes that would have increiminated other teams. Only an idiot would believe he did for any other reason.

Only an idiot would think that Goodell is intentionally painting his league as incapable of controlling the big, bad Patriots. That is the basic claim of Arlen Specter. If he paints the Pats as beyond his control, he loses. The league loses sovereignty, because they "need the government to help police them."

And of course, the remainder of your claim, though you claim it is the only viewpoint consistent with non-idiocy, is purely subjective. Again, I believe that there is some chance that other teams were incriminated by those tapes. I do not, however, have copies of those tapes. In that I could come up with half a dozen equally plausible explanations about the treatment of them, I can only conclude that you are using "idiot" to mean "someone who disagrees with me."

And you really believe that the measureable increase in severity and frequency of punishments against players and teams, argues for your interpretation that Goodell wants to establish that only the Patriots are guilty of any infraction?

Since tampering has happened since time began, why has he asked for broader powers in going after that and other infractions -- powers he used against teams and players other than the Patriots and their players?

It strikes me that Goodell's interests are in painting the league as under control, and the Patriots as having been dealt with.

Unless you are arguing for Specter to re-investigate the Pats, that is in the Patriots' interests as well.

It is in the Pats interest to show what they did was done by many teams and all forms of cheating goes on even though Goodell has swept all the other rules violations under the rug.

So you believe it is in the Patriots interest for Goodell to be doing the opposite of what he is accused of (remember the whole idea of the Specter trial -- the idea that Goodell covered up the Pats' violations)? Really?

You really believe that in order to be exonnerated, it is necessary that Goodell be established to be biased specifically against the Patriots? Even though proiving that contention is impossible since you have only your own opinion as evidence? You really believe that sticking to unproven rhetoric is the way the Pats can succeed as an organization?

You would really prefer, for example, that Specter/government get more influence in the NFL, by way of going forward with their little show trial, based on the ghost of a chance that Goodell could be established to be actually on a mission to hurt the Patriots? Do you really think you could make that case to anybody but a Pats fan? I guarantee you, you could not make it to a faultfinding session of the Senate or a committee thereof. It's not open court.

Remember the investigation he was going to conduct about who leaked the Pats tape to Fox. I wonder how that came out and who did he punish. LOL
That so called investigation telles you all you need to know about Goodell.

Uh, no, actually it doesn't. It tells me that I have no published details of the outcome of that inquiry.

Your

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The Patriots did not "did wrong", they did something Commissioner Clouseau punished them for. There's a difference between the two notions. The were doing something that they been allowed to do without issue for more than 5 years, and were doing it openly because they felt they were within the bounds of the rules. When people stop with the "they were wrong" nonsense, the entire scenario changes.

The Pats were in a territory where you needed an "interpretation" to make it this side of "legal." The 'phins and Jets have also gone there. But I do think all three teams recognized the territory. My belief is that we were knocked for something many teams have done, and that the penalty was too big, and was thus assessed for effect.

But did absolutely nothing happen? BULLCRAP. Pure homer bullcrap.

Goodell went after BB and the Pats because he had physical evidence (usually missing in such a case.) If it weren't normal, everyday procedure, why did Estrella struggle to try to retain possession of the tape? You know better.

It is not that nothing happened. It is also not that Goodell only has it in for the Pats. It is that Goodell wanted to "get" someone, and did not mind "making an example." And we were the ones busted. Yes, busted. Suddenly what was on the edge was now over the edge.

The Patriots insist that the Jets were filming them without permission. This was done in an area of the stadium that did not comport with the very same rule that Goodell insisted was so clear when punishing New England. The Jets were given a complete pass.

I've made this point several times myself and agree with it; had Goodell gone after the Jets, he would have been able to make exactly the same case. There is nothing in the Operations Manual that talks about "except if you have permission." Point taken.

Goodell's point, however, is that the Jets squealed and the Patriots did not.

Question: Does the league act without a complaint by one team against another? Goodell's answer: A team has to bring forward the behavior. It certainly seems as if it would make his job easier (not to mention encouraging teams to turn in others' misdemeanors.)

The interests of the Patriots and the league are by no means identical

At this juncture, they both have an interest in Specter going away. They both have an interest in the Pats not being further investigated. They both have an interest in establishing that the Pats' behavior is not unique in the NFL, and that Goodell is cleaning up the league.

If it is established that ONLY the Pats have broken The Sheriff's rules, then Specter's hand is strengthened. Remember, his basic charge is that Goodell is covering up further Pats' misdeads. Goodell's stance is there WERE no other misdeeds -- but that if you have new evidence you may bring it forward.

It is in Goodell's interest that such evidence NOT come forward, and that if it does come forward, that it be nothing he's ever seen or heard of before -- so he looks like he has competently controlled/punished the Pats.

Actually, the vast majority of fans that I've spoken to about the situation thinks Goodell was insane to hand down that strong a penalty. Not one of those fans thinks New England got off light. We must run in much different circles. Goodell tried to play the tough guy upon taking over and has handed out ridiculous penalties in most of his 'discipline situations', including the Patriots situation. Believing that is not 'homerism', particularly since some of us have been saying it since before the 'spygate' nonsense even happened.

Re: the circles we run in... agreed.

Re: homerism - It's fine to say Goodell just thinks he's Napoleon. I happen to agree. What gets to me is this notion that he's got to hate the Pats congenitally, etc., for this little drama to have occured. I simply disagree.

I don't think the Pats got a fair shake. I do think they were made scapegoats. But I also can see that the Pats and the League, for the time being, both need the current narrative to reflect that the Pats were dealt with, and that now the New Sherrif is moving on to any and all corruption of truth, justice, and the NFL way.

And every time a team other than NE gets busted, that subtracts from the perceived disparity between NE and everybody else, in terms of ethical behavior.

And surprise surprise, Goodell wants new powers to make such policing easier. Something of a power grab, so he can prosecute "crimes" with a lower standard of proof... but isn't that just what we complain he didn't do against the Jets and Dolphins?

PFnV

 

[flasox27]

Let me rebut a few points you raised in your defense of Goodell.
You say that they both have an interest in making the case go away and stopping the further investigation of the Pats.
Up until this point Goodell has done absolutely nothing in his power to make this case go away. He has refused to investigate other teams that would show that there are other rules violators in the league, he has destroyed the tapes that may have proven that there were other teams doing the same thing.He has refused to say that Walsh has been investigated and proven to be a liar and thief.Most of all the one investigation he went on record as saying he would conduct, the leak of the Pats tape nobody has heard anything about. It is beyond belief that with all media on this case if a real investigation had been conducted with findings, the news wouldn't have come out. As I said before it is in Goodell's best interest to show that the Pats are an isolated team and that he can control them
It is in the Pats interest to show they have been singled out by a biased and incompetent commissioner for doing things that other teams have done. They know the media will never let this die until another team is found out.
The Pats don't fear what Walsh has and will be more than happy to destroy him and watch the Commonwealth find a spot for him in Walpole.
As for interference from Spector,it is common knowledge that he is owned by Comcast and this is all about the NFL network and the NFL package and that he has no power whatsoever in the Judiciary committee with the power Held by Leahy and Kennedy. He is just a blowhard bogeyman.
As for his new power grab, what makes you think he wouldn't use against the Pats again. Aside from the ridiculous wrist slap he gave the 49ers who have a history of rules violations, he has done absolutely nothing except sweep things under the rug for his favored teams like the Colts and Jets. Frankly I don't trust him as far as I can throw him.

 

[Joker]

yeah....you're real good at obfuscating the REAL issue with a torrent of minutiae,VA...as usual.

Refute THIS....Goodell is a lifelong New Yorker, a lifelong fan of New York teams, a former EMPLOYEE of the NEW YORK JETS and a lifelong HATER of all teams from New England, who, when he was younger, went to Jet games and Yankee and/or Met games and screamed for blood with the rest of his NY friends every time one of HIS NEW YORK teams played the Patriots or Red Sox.

Now REFUTE THAT you dyamed Neville Chamberlain....or else stop the barrage of pseudointellectual rationalizations

 

[PatsFan24]

I am against him, he is another ******* with athority

 

[Koma]

As a Patriots fan, I'm not happy with the way Goodell handled the entire "cameragate" situation, particularly the media aspect.

If I was a fan of another team, I wouldn't base my opinion on that issue, but I might find it a little curious that he hasn't been able to put that issue to bed as we get into April.

It will be interesting to see how Goodell handles the potential labor issues facing the league. If he bungles that, then his time as commissioner could be short.

On the positive side, he did reduce the time allotted for teams to make a selection in the first round of the draft from 15 to 10 minutes. It doesn't make up for the other stuff, but it will make the draft easier to watch.

 

[flasox27]

Keep this in mind about the labor difficulties, Goodell and the small market teams won't have Kraft around as a compromiser anymore. Good bye Goodell.

 

[fgssand]

Stealing signals is not against the rules. What was deemed to be against the rules is merely the manner in which New England was doing it.

Outside of this group and a few other pockets of educated media & fans of the NFL - most people are unaware of this fact.

Half the perception problem going on right now is a direct result of this misunderstanding.

It is about time that somebody step up and make things clear - perfectly clear - about what this entire mess really was all about.

Until people understand the infraction, there is no way they can come to any reasonable conclusion. Right now, we are viewed nationally as cheaters because we stole signals and used them in a game no less, for an unfair advantage.

 

[flasox27]

If Goodell had either the brains or guts, he would have done this from the beginning instead of letting the Pats hang out to dry. Remember the 49ers and Broncos cheating on the cap. Did those stories last? I rest my case.

 

[FootballFanetic]

Keep this in mind about the labor difficulties, Goodell and the small market teams won't have Kraft around as a compromiser anymore. Good bye Goodell.

Please educate me on what Bob Kraft did to help the small market teams--I'd love to learn about that. From what I've read, he's actually one of the leaders of the group that is considered the large market team owners (he, Snyder, Jones, Lurie, McNair and Lerner usually get mentioned in that group, although I'm not sure why Cleveland is in there (perhaps because the owner had to pay through the nose for his expansion franchise he wants to maximize revenue however possible).

PS On your poll, count me as a "None of the above/No, he's trying to sweep things under the rug."