Antoine Winfield Jr. is the man.

[mgcolby]

Winfield = Free Safety. Duggar = Strong Safety/LB Hybrid. One player opted out Chung who is a SS/LB hybrid. One player chose to play this season and rarely if ever comes off the field, McCourty = FS.

WTF are people arguing about? Winfield and Duggar play two completely different positions. One was a need and one wasn't.

 

[DaBruinz]

I would have thought a loudmouth genius like yourself would understand the difference between a strong safety and a free safety. Let me explain it so perhaps you’ll be able to comprehend:

• Winfield often takes on cornerback duties and covers wide receivers.
• Dugger often takes on linebacker duties to stop the run and cover tight ends and running backs.
• Both will at times do what the other does but not primarily.

Comparing coverage and tackle stats is nonsensical.

Maybe you can start here and then join the discussion when you’re ready?

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I'm not YOU. I fully understand the differences between the two. You clearly don't get the concept that the idiots I was responding to were the ones making the comparisons to begin with. They were the ones WHINING about not having Winfield and touting him as being all that, when, in fact, he was the WORST Safety in the league.

No. Comparing Coverage and Tackle stats isn't nonsensical. You'd understand that if you had 1/1000th the knowledge you claim to have.

Why don't you go sit in the corner because you're the one who isn't ready to be in the discussion. You're the one unable to comprehend who was making what statements. I was using the information within the guidelines that @captain stone and the other nincompoops were touting.

PS. The Patriots have Dugger listed as a DB. Not as a SS. But I'm sure you'll make up some random excuse as to why it doesn't make a difference.

 

[DaBruinz]

David was a second rounder, Barrett was a FA, Godwin was a second rounder. Fun fact: Godwin was sandwiched in between our Derek Rivers and Antono Garcia picks (with Kareem Hunt going right after).

Godwin was a 3rd rounder, not a 2nd rounder. Only way he could have been sandwiched between Rivers and Garcia.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

PS. The Patriots have Dugger listed as a DB. Not as a SS. But I'm sure you'll make up some random excuse as to why it doesn't make a difference.

Are you truly this dense?

One (defensive back) is a category that includes all members of the secondary; the other (strong safety) is the specific position designation within that group of secondary players.

But...but...but...the book says it’s a shape, and you’re saying it’s a triangle! I’m sure you’ll make up some random excuse as to why it doesn’t make a difference.

 

[203Pat]

Godwin was a 3rd rounder, not a 2nd rounder. Only way he could have been sandwiched between Rivers and Garcia.

You are correct sir.

 

[TheRainMaker]

One of these is Dugger, the other is Winfield. Which one do you think is Dugger?

View attachment 30316View attachment 30317

This rarely failed me when playing Madden. I won every draft taking the best players.

 

[AlexB]

If we can't agree on each other's evaluations for Winfield and Dugger, maybe we should use their coaches' evaluations?

Dugger: 50.9% of defensive snaps
Winfield: 97.3% of defense snaps

Winfield was an immediate full time starter on a very good defense and helped to win a Super Bowl. How many times have we given credit to players here for contributing to a SB win, even if they didn't do much outside that or only played a part time role?

 

[mgcolby]

I am happy with Duggar, but I don’t think we can use passer rating against objectively to compare the two. The Patriots played against 2 good QB in 16 games (Wilson and Mahomes). The Bucs played much better passing offenses throughout the year.

In order

Wilson, Carr, Mahomes, Jimmy G, Josh Allen x2, Lamar Jackson, Watson, Murray, Herbert & Goff. They played against a good to very good QB every week except for when they Played the Jets, Dolphins and Broncos. No idea how you only got them playing against two good QB's all season.

 

[mgcolby]

If we can't agree on each other's evaluations for Winfield and Dugger, maybe we should use their coaches' evaluations?

Dugger: 50.9% of defensive snaps
Winfield: 97.3% of defense snaps

Winfield was an immediate full time starter on a very good defense and helped to win a Super Bowl. How many times have we given credit to players here for contributing to a SB win, even if they didn't do much outside that or only played a part time role?

Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Winfield would not of touched the field for 97% of the plays in NE. Not to mention Winfield played D1 ball. D2 to the NFL is a huge leap and Duggar did it seemlessly with no pre-season. The kid will be the full time starter next year, is a freak athlete and has a much higher ceiling impact wise then Winfield. But again two completely different positions.

 

[mgcolby]

TB is right. The Bucs defense is why the game was over by 3Q. In addition to great DT's and 2 excellent pass rushers they have 2 fast speedy LB's who can cover a TE like Kelce (Lavonte David and Devon White).
Here is hoping the Pats learn a lesson and start building around improving the speed at LB and fortifying the line.

That is exactly what the Duggar pick was, a bigger, stronger and faster Chung. A guy fast enough to cover WR's as well as big and physical enough to cover TE's and provide support in the run game.

 

[Cam2HarryGOAT]

Winfield was literally the worst defender in the NFL in passer rating allowed during the regular season.

He made big plays for the Bucs all season.

 

[Sciz]

He made big plays for the Bucs all season.

Yes he did. He also allowed his opponents to make way too many big plays in his direction.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Again you are comparing apples to oranges. Winfield would not of touched the field for 97% of the plays in NE. Not to mention Winfield played D1 ball. D2 to the NFL is a huge leap and Duggar did it seemlessly with no pre-season. The kid will be the full time starter next year, is a freak athlete and has a much higher ceiling impact wise then Winfield. But again two completely different positions.

Dugger is an All-Pro next year.

 

[captain stone]

That is exactly what the Duggar pick was, a bigger, stronger and faster Chung. A guy fast enough to cover WR's as well as big and physical enough to cover TE's and provide support in the run game.

Yep...except for that "covering" thingy...

 

[PittPatriot]

In order

Wilson, Carr, Mahomes, Jimmy G, Josh Allen x2, Lamar Jackson, Watson, Murray, Herbert & Goff. They played against a good to very good QB every week except for when they Played the Jets, Dolphins and Broncos. No idea how you only got them playing against two good QB's all season.

don’t consider Josh Allen, rookie Herbert, inconsistent carr or Goff to be very good.
Tampa played a tougher schedule and against better QB/offenses.

And as has been posted, comparing a FS to a SS when their rules are so different on their respective teams is not fair

 

[VrabelJr]

This thread should be 1 post with a ton of winner and thumbs up likes, but instead y’all gotta be a bunch of **** heads

 

[mgcolby]

don’t consider Josh Allen, rookie Herbert, inconsistent carr or Goff to be very good.
Tampa played a tougher schedule and against better QB/offenses.

And as has been posted, comparing a FS to a SS when their rules are so different on their respective teams is not fair

Josh Allen is good if not very good. And Goff and Carr are good even if as you say are inconsistent. Herbert played outstanding this season. Won rookie of the year if I am not mistaken which is a rare thing for a QB.

Agree to disagree I guess.

And I am one of the posters pointing out that Dugger and Winfield play two separate positions. So we agree on that.

 

[mgcolby]

Yep...except for that "covering" thingy...

I thought he was excellent in coverage, especially against TE's.

 

[Froob]

I’d frame that if I were a Bucs fan

 

[scott99]

we passed on this pro bowl stud for a divison 2 player

I think Dugger is gonna be a beast in our defense. He learned what it’s like to play in the NFL (after coming from division 2). Him and Uche are gonna be special. Tampa’s defense is special up front, which helps the secondary. There were two plays in the game where KC players had passes in the end zone that they dropped, they catch those two, and the narrative is different. You have to be lucky to be good, those passes hit those guys right in the face, after the ball went through their hands.

Not trying to take anything away from Winfield, just saying there were bumps in the road for him as a rookie as well. Tampa’s pass defense was in the bottom third in the league. But they showed up when it counted. Pass rush helped them immensely though.