Another troll meat article: Steve Belichick best DC?

[crawhammer]

I know what the author said. My comments were in response to your post.

So you think the article is ****?

 

[Ian]

So you think the article is ****?

No, again, I was responding to your take on the situation. Which I disagreed with, and I explained to you my reasoning in the post you partially quoted.

 

[crawhammer]

And you keep bringing up Allen like he’s the next Brady…it’s a little crazy. I think he’s going to have a rough year and Bills fans are already turning on him. If New England gets in gear and can keep the defense off the field long enough where they don’t end up gassed, it should be a lot more competitive, which it was late in the year against Buffalo before they pulled away.

You thinking it and it actually happening are probably miles apart. Better chance that Allen is in the MVP discussion. I also don't think I'm overrating a quarterback who may be the best combination of size, strength, and athleticism (both passing and rushing) that the league has ever seen. He has a bit too much gunslinger in him, which keeps his accuracy down and INTs up, but if he can refine his game slightly then he may get even better still. Ever since Belichick publicly underestimated Allen's potential, it's been an embarrassingly lopsided destruction (again 18 TDs and 1 INT in the last 6 matchups).

But with Rodgers, if the Jets give Allen trouble, they could very well be battling by December and that story could turn into a pretty surprising one. Definitely going to be interesting.

Obtaining Rodgers may have been the best move of the offseason by any team. We saw it last season, the Jets had a very talented young team with really bad quarterback play. Rodgers also played poorly by his standards and he looked uninspired throughout last season but I think the elite talent is still there so if he can get his head back in the game then the Jets will make some noise in the division.

And oh by the way the Patriots only have to worry about Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle when facing Miami. The offenses in the division alone are going to present some very difficult matchups for the Patriots defense.

 

[crawhammer]

No, again, I was responding to your take on the situation.

My take is the article is **** because it's making a false statement about the Patriots defense shutting down the most high-powered offenses. They are not. I gave you supportive data so I'm not sure what you disagree with?

 

[Ian]

You thinking it and it actually happening are probably miles apart. Better chance that Allen is in the MVP discussion. I also don't think I'm overrating a quarterback who may be the best combination of size, strength, and athleticism (both passing and rushing) that the league has ever seen.

Again, even Bills fans are turning on him. But we'll obviously see how this year goes.

He has a bit too much gunslinger in him, which keeps his accuracy down and INTs up, but if he can refine his game slightly then he may get even better still. Ever since Belichick publicly underestimated Allen's potential, it's been an embarrassingly lopsided destruction (again 18 TDs and 1 INT in the last 6 matchups).

That gap has closed significantly in the last year with better defensive personnel. In three of those match-ups (in 2021) they were lacking the speed necessary to deal with that offense, and save for the weather in one of them, they had to change. They've done that. And if New England's offense can get in gear this year, it should be far more competitive.

Obtaining Rodgers may have been the best move of the offseason by any team. We saw it last season, the Jets had a very talented young team with really bad quarterback play. Rodgers also played poorly by his standards and he looked uninspired throughout last season but I think the elite talent is still there so if he can get his head back in the game then the Jets will make some noise in the division.

And Allen may end up with his work cut out for him if he has a tough year.

And oh by the way the Patriots only have to worry about Tyreek Hill and Jaylen Waddle when facing Miami. The offenses in the division alone are going to present some very difficult matchups for the Patriots defense.

True, but again, they've got more athleticism after how they've morphed the last couple of offseasons. As I said, if they can put up points consistently, it should be a different story.

 

[Ian]

My take is the article is **** because it's making a false statement about the Patriots defense shutting down the most high-powered offenses. They are not. I gave you supportive data so I'm not sure what you disagree with?

Points also matter. They were in many of those contests, which is what I disagree with.

They lost by 7 points or less to Rodgers (10/2/22), Cousins (11/24/22), Burrow (12/24/22), and Tua (1/1/23) last year. And they gave up 14 special teams points in a 12-point loss to Allen in the finale. They were in those games because of that defense.

 

[crawhammer]

Again, even Bills fans are turning on him.

Why? Bunch of clowns I suppose. I'll gladly take Allen in New England.

That gap has closed significantly in the last year with better defensive personnel. In three of those match-ups (in 2021) they were lacking the speed necessary to deal with that offense, and save for the weather in one of them, they had to change. They've done that. And if New England's offense can get in gear this year, it should be far more competitive.

Allen has been killing us through the air (he's not even threatening us with the other exceptional part of his game). He closed out that week 18 matchup with a couple of long distance dimes. Two KO returns limited his touches too. The week 13 matchup at Gillette it was pitch and catch with Diggs every time they needed it. The gap seems pretty wide until I see otherwise.

They lost by 7 points or less to Rodgers (10/2/22), Cousins (11/24/22), Burrow (12/24/22), and Tua (1/1/23) last year.

With Belichick running his mouth nonstop about Rodgers being "too good" all the time, I'm not sure where you're getting your confidence there.

The Minnesota game may have been Mac's best for 3 quarters (then he no-showed in the 4th) but this was hardly a defensive battle at any point... the two teams combined for 11 scoring drives.

The Cincinnati game was fluky. It was pretty much over at halftime. The Marcus Jones pick-6 and Bengals turnovers made it appear closer. Burrow threw for 375 (majority in the first half) and they totaled 442 yards.

Tua didn't play in the 1/1/23 game... Thompson and Bridgewater were terrible... probably would have been a different outcome with a healthy Tua.

Points also matter.

Points is what I highlighted. As in their opponents 2020-2022 didn't get many, against anyone, as I pointed out. 14 of 25 wins against offenses ranking 20th or worse (in points). 11 of 25 wins against offenses ranking 26th or worse (in points). The majority of their wins are against bad offenses. And under no circumstances are they "shutting down the most high-powered offenses."

 

[Ian]

Points is what I highlighted. As in their opponents 2020-2022 didn't get many, against anyone, as I pointed out. 14 of 25 wins against offenses ranking 20th or worse (in points). 11 of 25 wins against offenses ranking 26th or worse (in points). The majority of their wins are against bad offenses. And under no circumstances are they "shutting down the most high-powered offenses."

They absolutely are. "Shutting down" doesn't mean single-digit point totals. Keeping the game close is what matters, and like it or not, they've done that, and they've been in the majority of those games. You act like they're getting blown out, and they're terrible, and that I'm crazy for even mentioning this. I don't know why you're insisting otherwise.

You can argue whatever metrics you want, but the results are what they are. With this defense, they've proven they can deal with - and handle - anyone, including the guys you're so high on. They just need the offense to hold up its end of the deal this season.

 

[crawhammer]

They absolutely are. "Shutting down" doesn't mean single-digit point totals. Keeping the game close is what matters, and like it or not, they've done that, and they've been in the majority of those games.

It's not just "shutting down", it's "shutting down the most high-powered offenses", which they're not. I went back through 2020 and there are only 3 measly examples of them even beating an opponent with a top 5 ranked scoring offense... 3... and one is the Buffalo wind storm game and another is against the 1-6 Lions. So really they "shutdown" 1 high-powered offense in the last 3 seasons... the 2021 Chargers while still giving up 369 yards and 24 points (which isn't a shutdown).

Not sure what else you're getting at here? They can't win close games? Which was hardly the point of the article by the way, winning supposed close games. The article practically characterizes the Patriots defense like the '85 Bears. Interesting, considering the majority of their wins are against lower ranked scoring teams, they don't win close games, and they certainly don't ever comeback to win a game.

You can argue whatever metrics you want, but the results are what they are. With this defense, they've proven they can deal with - and handle - anyone, including the guys you're so high on.

You say this knowing our results against Josh Allen? Last 6 games: 5-1, 31 points per game, 18 TDs and 1 INT. The Patriots defense can't handle Josh Allen at least. That's a proven fact.

 

[Ian]

It's not just "shutting down", it's "shutting down the most high-powered offenses", which they're not. I went back through 2020 and there are only 3 measly examples of them even beating an opponent with a top 5 ranked scoring offense... 3... and one is the Buffalo wind storm game and another is against the 1-6 Lions. So really they "shutdown" 1 high-powered offense in the last 3 seasons... the 2021 Chargers while still giving up 369 yards and 24 points (which isn't a shutdown).

Not sure what else you're getting at here? They can't win close games? Which was hardly the point of the article by the way, winning supposed close games. The article practically characterizes the Patriots defense like the '85 Bears. Interesting, considering the majority of their wins are against lower ranked scoring teams, they don't win close games, and they certainly don't ever comeback to win a game.


You say this knowing our results against Josh Allen? Last 6 games: 5-1, 31 points per game, 18 TDs and 1 INT. The Patriots defense can't handle Josh Allen at least. That's a proven fact.

You can beat this horse all you want, but the final scores - in the games I stated in the last post - are what they are. And as I said, they lost to the Bills - and Josh Allen - by 12 in that finale in a game where they gave up 14 on special teams. The defense absolutely was getting it done last year.

 

[borg]

And as I said, they lost to the Bills - and Josh Allen - by 12 in that finale in a game where they gave up 14 on special teams. The defense absolutely was getting it done

It should be pointed out NE special teams failures kept the Bills offense/ NE defense off the field for two series which vastly contributed to the near-equivalent stats in this game

 

[crawhammer]

You can beat this horse all you want, but the final scores - in the games I stated in the last post - are what they are. And as I said, they lost to the Bills - and Josh Allen - by 12 in that finale in a game where they gave up 14 on special teams. The defense absolutely was getting it done last year.

Opponent Scoring Ranks

2022 wins

26th (Steelers)
5th (Lions)
18th (Browns)
29th (Jets)
30th (Colts)
29th (Jets)
21st (Cardinals)
11th (Dolphins)

2022 losses

11th (Dolphins)
19th (Ravens)
14th (Packers)
23rd (Bears)
8th (Vikings)
2nd (Bills)
12th (Raiders)
7th (Bengals)
2nd (Bills)

1-10 ranked teams: 1-4
11-20 ranked teams: 2-4
21-32 ranked teams: 5-1

"Shutting down the most high-powered offenses" is obviously laughable. But you can't even say the defense was getting it done last season generally. It's right there... 5 wins and 1 loss to teams with an offense ranking 21-32 while 3 wins and 8 losses to teams with an offense ranking 1-20... they shutdown the trash and lost to practically everyone else between ok and high-powered.

 

[Tunescribe]

Opponent Scoring Ranks

2022 wins

26th (Steelers)
5th (Lions)
18th (Browns)
29th (Jets)
30th (Colts)
29th (Jets)
21st (Cardinals)
11th (Dolphins)

2022 losses

11th (Dolphins)
19th (Ravens)
14th (Packers)
23rd (Bears)
8th (Vikings)
2nd (Bills)
12th (Raiders)
7th (Bengals)
2nd (Bills)

1-10 ranked teams: 1-4
11-20 ranked teams: 2-4
21-32 ranked teams: 5-1

"Shutting down the most high-powered offenses" is obviously laughable. But you can't even say the defense was getting it done last season generally. It's right there... 5 wins and 1 loss to teams with an offense ranking 21-32 while 3 wins and 8 losses to teams with an offense ranking 1-20... they shutdown the trash and lost to practically everyone else between ok and high-powered.