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Almost 39% of Pats "FANS" have lost faith?


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If the poll asked if fans were "concerned" about the recent activity, that would be one thing. But "have you lost faith?" I think that's pretty poor.
 
I wasn't polled.

Anybody here get polled? Is it just he online PFW people? All subscribers? Just those who check in to the almost worthless "official" site, which I do daily? And, how many total votes?

Just a few of the questions in this meanless,IMO, poll. NEST did a similar poll last week and 75% trusted the FO. So if there were 4 voters, 3 trusted and 1 didn't.
 
Joker said:
I sat through rain and lightning storms in the foulest weather imaginable for 8 games a season in the late 70's and 80's. If that Schaefer stadium sh!thole didn't stop me, then how does this offseason plan to? I'm a Patriot fan...thick or thin, up or down....I could care less about craving success...and there is a core group of long time fans that are exactly the same....you play in red white and blue and we'll show up, I don't care how many Tony Easons or Joe Kapps you trot out there, we're dug in til death do us part


It always seemed to rain the most when Seattle came to town.

Frozen tin benches, and I swear the stadium hired people to stand in line for the bathrooms just to make it worse on us.

But every year that the season ticket renewal notice came out, dad didn't blink (well, a little for the annual increase). 1-15, 3-13, 14-2 ... Still love the team.
 
Chevy said:
It always seemed to rain the most when Seattle came to town.

Frozen tin benches, and I swear the stadium hired people to stand in line for the bathrooms just to make it worse on us.

But every year that the season ticket renewal notice came out, dad didn't blink (well, a little for the annual increase). 1-15, 3-13, 14-2 ... Still love the team.
That Schaeffer beer would do that to you, wouldn't it? :eat1:

I don't understand your numbers wrt ticket increases, or are they season W/L records?
 
what do you mean by poled?
 
Harrison37 said:
If the poll asked if fans were "concerned" about the recent activity, that would be one thing. But "have you lost faith?" I think that's pretty poor.
I agree..there''s a big diff between say being concerned and giving up...which is apparently what these 39% are saying.
 
This reminds me of those coach "Approval Ratings" they have over at ESPN during the season. Have you seen these foolish things? They swing drastically depending on whether or not the team wins that week. Team wins, high approval rating, good coach. Next week the team loses, whoah, hang on! Low approval rating, coach stinks. Makes no sense.

Even Belichick gets bad approval ratings which to me is insane. Some fans are just imbeciles, literally "what have you done for me lately?" or maybe even "what have you done for me in the last five minutes?".
 
No one believes until the wheels are in motion, we'll be in the SB in another year or so, it's all to do with resigning rather than signing. We want the boys back, but during the off season we want new duds. I understand we need to bring in new players, but I think this years is the Draft and next offseason with alot of resignings then.
We can draft a kicker (release AV)
We can draft a reciever (release DG)
We can draft offensive line (release TA)
We can draft a linebacker (release WM)

It's all about hating to lose these guys, and after all the decisions made prior to final say in these guys careers with the Pats I don't think of it as such a bad idea.
Age and Production have a downfall sooner rather than later for these guys if they are overpaid back up (TA).

I believe, but I wish it wasn't a believe game.
 
Ghost got it right..

...and a couple of others. The Big Picture is just not the specialty of most football fans. The fact that it's 39% and not higher is saying something, given (no pun intended) the guys we've just lost, and the fact that there's been no action as yet on the FA front, and no credible information about a big draft day move.

We'll go into 06 with a competitive team, if we start with today's roster. We'll see what happens between now and then (though I'll repeat my opinion that Arrington, who somebody mentioned, comes with a lot more question marks than promise.)

Reports of our demise have been greatly exaggerated. This stuff happens on a cycle. The first part is "guys you lose," and you go from there.

PFnV
 
DaBruinz said:
I posted this on the Globe message board after reading that almost 39% of past fans no long believe in BB and Pioli.

I have to say that I am truly perplexed. Almost 39%% of the "FANS" of this team have lost faith in BB and Pioli? Did I miss us winning 3 SBs in the last 5 years?

Oh, wait, I get it. People are upset because of Willie, Adam ,and David going. Those 3 took the money and ran. Can't blame them. In each case, they got over-paid. Willie, You were great as a Patriots, but at 34, you aren't worth 4 mill a year. Adam, you were one of the most clutch in history, but stop having your father lie about the fact that you wanted to stay. You didn't. You wanted to kick in warm weather or a dome so you could increase the length of your career. Especially when it was becoming obvious that the Patriots were trying to go for it more on the opponents 30-35 yard line. Its also been 3 years since you made a 50 yarder and your kicks aren't getting into the endzone enough. Its too bad you just kissed a lifetime of endorsements goodbye. I hope it was worth sitting at home every February.

As for David, 5 mill a year for a guy who hasn't ever had more than 60 catches, even when he was the primary receiver for 6 straight weeks at one point Sorry, but you aren't a #1 receiver. You're a #2 and you should have been happy with that. But reality is that it was about the money. And the Titans treated you right. Can't fault you for that.

The off-season is about transition. Players come and players go. We have to deal with it. But, I will tell you right now, that I would rather let those 3 walk than keep them and face the almost certain losses of Seymour, Branch, and Koppen (provided he returns to form), to free agency in 2007.

I am sure that some surats are going to beat the WRONG BOGUS drum, but what WRONG hasn't mention is that his AGENT is the one who was feeding him all the info on David Givens. Why? Because David and Wrong Bogus (Ron Borges for those of you who haven't figured it out) share the same Agent. That should put a different perspective on things. Especially in light of Wrong's constant attack on BB about the fact that BB's agent and Adam's former agent both worked for Neil Cornich.

I am also sure that some surats are going to try and point to last off-season and last year and how the Pats played as signs that the bandwagon is breaking down. The most common rants are that BB messed up in the off-season getting Beisel, Brown, and Starks. I think that the only mistake that BB made was not knowing the phsyical health of Ted Johnson. Ted Johnson retiring right before training camp was probably the single biggest blow to BB's plan last year. That forced 2 players to the ILB position who had never played there before in Brown and Beisel. Beisel was signed as a project. To try and develop another Bruschi like player who could take over for Tedy when he finally decides to retire. Brown was signed as back-up or, at worst, to play opposite Ted Johnson.

Then, a lot of things started happening. Ryan Claridge, who looked very promising in camp, went down to injury. Mike Vrabel was injured in camp and basically missed his trianing for the ILB position. Stephen Neal looks like his shoulder wasn't healthy coming out of camp. Guss Scott and James Sanders weren't healthy coming out of camp. Jarvis Green's shoulder was banged up coming out of camp as well.

After coming out of camp with 10 DBs, the Pats lost 6 of those 10 to the IR.( Harrison, G. Scott, C. Scott, R. Gay, Duane Starks, and Ty Poole) by week 8. Wilfork wasn't playing well. Seymour missed some big games due to injury. Beisel and Brown showed that they hadn't picked up enough of the defense to be effective. Duane Starks played poorly because of a bum shoulder. Eugene Wilson was trying too hard to cover the deficiencies in the secondary as the "VET" back there.

I mean, seriously people, at one point, the Patriots had 4 defensive starters out (Ty Poole, Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison). And that doesn't include not having Ted Johnson in there. That is a LOT for a defense and a team to over-come.

It wasn't until players started getting "healthy," that things started changing. Bruschi returned. Seymour returned. Vrabel was healthy enough to move inside. Ellis Hobbs stepped up. Wilfork changed his technique and was playing significantly better. Wilson stopped pressing and then the late addition of Hawkins helped solidify the defense for the last 5 games.

You can't fault BB for not knowing the future. There is no way he could have known that Light, Koppen, and Harrison would be lost for the year to catastrophic injuries. There is no way he could have know that they'd lose C. Scott, Starks, Poole, G. Scott and Randall Gay to injuries by week 9. Having that many injuries that take away that many players from one position would make it hard for ANY coach. And please, no one knows that if they had kept Ty Law that he would have been healthy all year.

When people stop and take a step back and look at REALITY, they will see that, in the era of the salary cap, we can't keep our favorite players their entire career unless they want to stay for a reasonable price. Its why I don't expect we'll ever see Tedy Bruschi go through this. Its why I don't see Tom Brady ever going through this. For all the other players, they will have to make a choice. Will it be to stick it out and earn the hearts of some of the greatest fans on the earth while making a modest football income and be part of Patriot Lore, or will it be to get as much money as they can and kiss the lifetime of endorsements and love from the fans goodbye.

BB and Pioli have done everything they can to earn our faith. A bump in the road because of catastrophic injuries and the loss of some free agents shouldn't cause us to lose that faith. If it does, the we weren't ever truly fans. We were bandwagoners. And we don't deserve the gift of 3 SB CHAMPIONSHIPS that the Pats, with BB and Pioli at the helm, have given us.

Wow, somebody who get's it! Great post DaBuinz!!! Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Only 39% of those who get their sports perspective from reading the Globe have lost their faith; no surprise!
------------------------------------------------
How would we all evaluate bb and pioli if they bid more in order to get everyone for 3 years

Willie at $5M a year including at least $7M guaranteed.
Givens at $6M a year
Vinatieri at $4M guaranteed for 2006 and $2.5M per year thereafter

and certainly we should have paid Ashworth $3M a year and Andre Davis $2M a year.
---------------------------------------------------------

Congrats to the players. They deserve every penny that can get out of other owners.

-----------------------------------------------------------
SOME THOUGHTS

1) Has anyone re-signed as many free agents as the patriots?
2) I think Caldwell is a better prospect than Andre Davis (for less money). As Davis and Terrell last year, Caldwell could step to be a #2 or #3, or not; he's certainly worth his pay as a #4.
3) I was glad to see Chad Scott, Troy Brown, Evans and Neal re-sign to be added to Don Davis, Hawkins, Poteat and Tucker. The ERFA's will all be back. At least a couple will be contributers out of: Childress, Gay, Scott, Mruc and Yates. That's 13 total that will are signed will be re-signed, and we still don't know about Stone or Flutie.
4) It is good not to worry about our RFA's this year. They were a considerable distraction last year.
5) We may not go for it on 4th down and 2 at the 40 this year, or punt! We may actually see a 50 yarder from a patriot kicker this year. Has it really been three years, or does it just seem that long? Or better yet, we'll use the cash to get a top receiver who will get us the extra yards or an extra touchdown or two instead of needing as many field goals.
6) We won't need to wonder when a young first round OLB might be given a chance to play if drafted. The time is now.
7) Yes, we've completed a couple of weeks of free agency, and we have three major holes to fill, and six minor ones, and we have only about $18M left of cap money and about 9 or 10 draft picks. The sky is falling! the sky is falling!
 
mgteich said:
2) I think Caldwell is a better prospect than Andre Davis (for less money). As Davis and Terrell last year, Caldwell could step to be a #2 or #3, or not; he's certainly worth his pay as a #4. I agree, and I like his chance a hell of a lot more than I liked Terrell's last year.

3) I was glad to see Chad Scott, Troy Brown, Evans and Neal re-sign to be added to Don Davis, Hawkins, Poteat and Tucker. The ERFA's will all be back. At least a couple will be contributers out of: Childress, Gay, Scott, Mruc and Yates. Add Big Britt to that list, I got a weeeeird feeling about him. That's 13 total that will are signed will be re-signed, and we still don't know about Stone or Flutie. Y'know... you see a lot of 'nobodys' named on the KFFL Hotwire, but I've yet to see Stone's name on it. How's that testing free agency going, has he visited anyone? Loved him on STs, would be nice to have back.

5) We may not go for it on 4th down and 2 at the 40 this year, or punt! We may actually see a 50 yarder from a patriot kicker this year. Has it really been three years, or does it just seem that long? Has it been that long?

7) Yes, we've completed a couple of weeks of free agency, and we have three major holes to fill, and six minor ones, and we have only about $18M left of cap money and about 9 or 10 draft picks. The sky is falling! the sky is falling!
Yup. Dooooomed.
 
F.B.N. said:
That's a poll that can easily be skewed...let's face it.

A poll from readership who just read negative articles all the time?

Just because we are well informed here(better anyways), I would say that if i only read the newspaper chances are good I would be skeptical also.


Especially when Borges voted 1,381 times!!
 
78% of people who vote in pole's don't know what thier voting on.
 
PatsSteve1 said:
78% of people who vote in pole's don't know what thier voting on.
Those are the pre-internet figures. The vast wealth of knowledge that's available at our fingertips in the blink of an eye has not only served to close the gap somewhat between the edjucated and non-educated, but it's also awakened the educated's collective curiosity to learn even more. As a whole, across many varying demographics and psychographics, average intelligence and the use of "good common sense" has seen a sharp rise in our population, due in part to the internet. The most recent data for the example you cite above is most certainly not 78%, but rather because of the influx of technology, we can now brag a 77.6% rate. You, sir, with your sloppy facts, should be ashamed.
 
Really none of this surprises me. Im pretty a level headed fan normally and even I got caught up in the dissapointment of losing Givens, Willie and AV back-to-back-to-back last week.

When people know the team has roughly 20 million in cap room and see these players go and the FA pool drying up by the day with only Reche Caldwell added to the roster from Free Agency it causes angst. I think a lot of us can see the value of re-signing people like Neal, Brown etc. but most fans aren't going to get excited about re-signing an offensive lineman. I don't think it makes them bad people, just irrational. Most fans don't want to take the time to see that re-signing Neal and possibly extending Seymour and Branch are important in the long term. They want names.
 
Last edited:
DaBruinz said:
I posted this on the Globe message board after reading that almost 39% of past fans no long believe in BB and Pioli.

I have to say that I am truly perplexed. Almost 39%% of the "FANS" of this team have lost faith in BB and Pioli? Did I miss us winning 3 SBs in the last 5 years?

Oh, wait, I get it. People are upset because of Willie, Adam ,and David going. Those 3 took the money and ran. Can't blame them. In each case, they got over-paid. Willie, You were great as a Patriots, but at 34, you aren't worth 4 mill a year. Adam, you were one of the most clutch in history, but stop having your father lie about the fact that you wanted to stay. You didn't. You wanted to kick in warm weather or a dome so you could increase the length of your career. Especially when it was becoming obvious that the Patriots were trying to go for it more on the opponents 30-35 yard line. Its also been 3 years since you made a 50 yarder and your kicks aren't getting into the endzone enough. Its too bad you just kissed a lifetime of endorsements goodbye. I hope it was worth sitting at home every February.

As for David, 5 mill a year for a guy who hasn't ever had more than 60 catches, even when he was the primary receiver for 6 straight weeks at one point Sorry, but you aren't a #1 receiver. You're a #2 and you should have been happy with that. But reality is that it was about the money. And the Titans treated you right. Can't fault you for that.

The off-season is about transition. Players come and players go. We have to deal with it. But, I will tell you right now, that I would rather let those 3 walk than keep them and face the almost certain losses of Seymour, Branch, and Koppen (provided he returns to form), to free agency in 2007.

I am sure that some surats are going to beat the WRONG BOGUS drum, but what WRONG hasn't mention is that his AGENT is the one who was feeding him all the info on David Givens. Why? Because David and Wrong Bogus (Ron Borges for those of you who haven't figured it out) share the same Agent. That should put a different perspective on things. Especially in light of Wrong's constant attack on BB about the fact that BB's agent and Adam's former agent both worked for Neil Cornich.

I am also sure that some surats are going to try and point to last off-season and last year and how the Pats played as signs that the bandwagon is breaking down. The most common rants are that BB messed up in the off-season getting Beisel, Brown, and Starks. I think that the only mistake that BB made was not knowing the phsyical health of Ted Johnson. Ted Johnson retiring right before training camp was probably the single biggest blow to BB's plan last year. That forced 2 players to the ILB position who had never played there before in Brown and Beisel. Beisel was signed as a project. To try and develop another Bruschi like player who could take over for Tedy when he finally decides to retire. Brown was signed as back-up or, at worst, to play opposite Ted Johnson.

Then, a lot of things started happening. Ryan Claridge, who looked very promising in camp, went down to injury. Mike Vrabel was injured in camp and basically missed his trianing for the ILB position. Stephen Neal looks like his shoulder wasn't healthy coming out of camp. Guss Scott and James Sanders weren't healthy coming out of camp. Jarvis Green's shoulder was banged up coming out of camp as well.

After coming out of camp with 10 DBs, the Pats lost 6 of those 10 to the IR.( Harrison, G. Scott, C. Scott, R. Gay, Duane Starks, and Ty Poole) by week 8. Wilfork wasn't playing well. Seymour missed some big games due to injury. Beisel and Brown showed that they hadn't picked up enough of the defense to be effective. Duane Starks played poorly because of a bum shoulder. Eugene Wilson was trying too hard to cover the deficiencies in the secondary as the "VET" back there.

I mean, seriously people, at one point, the Patriots had 4 defensive starters out (Ty Poole, Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, and Rodney Harrison). And that doesn't include not having Ted Johnson in there. That is a LOT for a defense and a team to over-come.

It wasn't until players started getting "healthy," that things started changing. Bruschi returned. Seymour returned. Vrabel was healthy enough to move inside. Ellis Hobbs stepped up. Wilfork changed his technique and was playing significantly better. Wilson stopped pressing and then the late addition of Hawkins helped solidify the defense for the last 5 games.

You can't fault BB for not knowing the future. There is no way he could have known that Light, Koppen, and Harrison would be lost for the year to catastrophic injuries. There is no way he could have know that they'd lose C. Scott, Starks, Poole, G. Scott and Randall Gay to injuries by week 9. Having that many injuries that take away that many players from one position would make it hard for ANY coach. And please, no one knows that if they had kept Ty Law that he would have been healthy all year.

When people stop and take a step back and look at REALITY, they will see that, in the era of the salary cap, we can't keep our favorite players their entire career unless they want to stay for a reasonable price. Its why I don't expect we'll ever see Tedy Bruschi go through this. Its why I don't see Tom Brady ever going through this. For all the other players, they will have to make a choice. Will it be to stick it out and earn the hearts of some of the greatest fans on the earth while making a modest football income and be part of Patriot Lore, or will it be to get as much money as they can and kiss the lifetime of endorsements and love from the fans goodbye.

BB and Pioli have done everything they can to earn our faith. A bump in the road because of catastrophic injuries and the loss of some free agents shouldn't cause us to lose that faith. If it does, the we weren't ever truly fans. We were bandwagoners. And we don't deserve the gift of 3 SB CHAMPIONSHIPS that the Pats, with BB and Pioli at the helm, have given us.

well said. i am with you with only one exception (i doubted and still doubt Starks).

but you can always make 1 mistake.

thks BB and SP for the 3 rings !
 
PATSNUTme said:
I wasn't polled.

Anybody here get polled? Is it just he online PFW people? All subscribers? Just those who check in to the almost worthless "official" site, which I do daily? And, how many total votes?

Just a few of the questions in this meanless,IMO, poll. NEST did a similar poll last week and 75% trusted the FO. So if there were 4 voters, 3 trusted and 1 didn't.

I didn't get much past the words "Globe" and "Poll" before I started laughing! :p
 
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