Age or Pride?

[MainePatsFan26]

As the Patriots continue to struggle in the post-Brady era, critics of Bill Belichick have increasingly blamed his age for the team's failings.

My question is whether it is fair to simply chalk up these struggles to age. After two decades of unparalleled success, couldn't the main culprit be his stubborn refusal to evolve his coaching style and approach as GM?

At the end of the day, Belichick can still be a successful coach for this team. But finding success again will require accountability, a renewed sense of hunger, and a desire to try new approaches. If Bill refuses to hold himself to that standard, it won't be because of age -- but pride.

 

[Pape]

Honestly?

Its a failure to adapt to the modern NFL... it hasn't quite passed him by, but its getting close... The game is changing dramatically, with the league really stressing innovative passing game concepts... the Patriots haven't really changed how they treat that aspect of the game and they need to... both on the player skill level, but more importantly, in the allocation of resources for those positions...

If that area is tweaked, then I think he could manage to field a competitive team... and by competitive I mean at the very least second round of the playoffs competitive... the super bowl is a crapshoot and should never be considered a sure thing for anyone anymore...

 

[ralmat55]

I’m the grandson and son of dementia, so I’ve been a keen observer of people as they age. Professionally, I’ve followed many on their journey to old age over the last 30 years.

One thing I’ve noticed is old age acts like an intoxicant as it accentuates a person’s worse personality traits. If you know an arrogant or headstrong 50-something man, he is going to be completely insufferable in his 70s.

So, I guess the answer is both.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

I’m the grandson and son of dementia, so I’ve been a keen observer of people as they age. Professionally, I’ve followed many on their journey to old age over the last 30 years.

One thing I’ve noticed is old age acts like an intoxicant as it accentuates a person’s worse personality traits. If you know an arrogant or headstrong 50-something man, he is going to be completely insufferable in his 70s.

So, I guess the answer is both.

Fair enough and great point about age accentuating the worst personality traits -- I hadn't thought of things that way.

 

[MainePatsFan26]

Honestly?

Its a failure to adapt to the modern NFL... it hasn't quite passed him by, but its getting close... The game is changing dramatically, with the league really stressing innovative passing game concepts... the Patriots haven't really changed how they treat that aspect of the game and they need to... both on the player skill level, but more importantly, in the allocation of resources for those positions...

If that area is tweaked, then I think he could manage to field a competitive team... and by competitive I mean at the very least second round of the playoffs competitive... the super bowl is a crapshoot and should never be considered a sure thing for anyone anymore...

Here's hoping he can find a way to tweak things. If they traded for a veteran QB this offseason and focused on the WR position, this team could make a quick jump. If Kraft is going to stick with Bill the next couple years, why not go "all in" on improving the offense?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Pride. He thinks his way will still work.

He used to be they guy that derailed top offenses, but competent teams aren’t fazed by him anymore.

 

[Pape]

Here's hoping he can find a way to tweak things. If they traded for a veteran QB this offseason and focused on the WR position, this team could make a quick jump. If Kraft is going to stick with Bill the next couple years, why not go "all in" on improving the offense?

they won't trade for a vet qb... but i could see them ramping up efforts to land a wr in a trade... unless its davante adams, i think that would be a mistake...

a lot of misery is being spread around due to the nature of todays loss... we aren't as bad as that, but we aren't exactly a competitive team, so trading assets isn't really something we can afford to do based on future needs

 

[Boomer B]

Here's hoping he can find a way to tweak things. If they traded for a veteran QB this offseason and focused on the WR position, this team could make a quick jump. If Kraft is going to stick with Bill the next couple years, why not go "all in" on improving the offense?

What have we seen from Bill to figure he’ll focus on the WR position?

This team has been in need of skill position (especially WR) talent for years. His fixes have been N’Keal Harry, Nelson Agholor, Juju, Davonte Parker, M Sanu, Boney T. It’s pretty damn clear Bill doesn’t know how to fix the WR talent on this team.

 

[upstater1]

Honestly?

Its a failure to adapt to the modern NFL... it hasn't quite passed him by, but its getting close... The game is changing dramatically, with the league really stressing innovative passing game concepts... the Patriots haven't really changed how they treat that aspect of the game and they need to... both on the player skill level, but more importantly, in the allocation of resources for those positions...

If that area is tweaked, then I think he could manage to field a competitive team... and by competitive I mean at the very least second round of the playoffs competitive... the super bowl is a crapshoot and should never be considered a sure thing for anyone anymore...

While I agree the passing game is different for teams like Miami, I take note of what the Bills did today by disrupting the timing. It just killed Miami. One of the creators of this new type of offense, McVay, came into the Super Bowl with a top 10 offense in NFL history. He left with 3 points.

While I agree that these offenses are new, I just think Belichick isn't all that impressed. He saw what the Bucs did to KC and what the Patriots did to the Rams.

That being said, I agree we haven't allocated resources to WR, and by that I mean the draft. But... I struggle to think of giving up Gonzalez or Keion White for any WRs who went after them. Obviously we took Tyquan instead of Pickens last year. In FA, we seem to spend a lot of money signing WRs and TEs. But we can't find the stud WR, and we surely don't have a QB who could do anything with one anyway.

 

[Jlaff]

If you approach this question by looking at what needs to change for the Pats to be successful, then it doesn't look like the game has passed Bill by.

What does this team need to win right now? A decent QB, a couple pieces on the O-line, and a #1 WR. Easier said than done, but if the Pats have 3-4 moderately to significantly better players at key positions, they are probably 3-1 right now. All of a sudden Bill is a successful coach again. That requires a couple more hits in the draft and a willingness to spend on these positions in FA if the right players become available.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

While I agree the passing game is different for teams like Miami, I take note of what the Bills did today by disrupting the timing. It just killed Miami. One of the creators of this new type of offense, McVay, came into the Super Bowl with a top 10 offense in NFL history. He left with 3 points.

While I agree that these offenses are new, I just think Belichick isn't all that impressed. He saw what the Bucs did to KC and what the Patriots did to the Rams.

That being said, I agree we haven't allocated resources to WR, and by that I mean the draft. But... I struggle to think of giving up Gonzalez or Keion White for any WRs who went after them. Obviously we took Tyquan instead of Pickens last year. In FA, we seem to spend a lot of money signing WRs and TEs. But we can't find the stud WR, and we surely don't have a QB who could do anything with one anyway.

You can shut a team down for one game but there is no way you can get to the SB doing so. And in the 2018 SB Gurley being out was huge for the Rams offense.

Patriots put 37 and 41 in the championship and division round. No way we were getting to the SB without a great offense.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

When does Kraft will apply the Bill mantra of getting rid of someone a year early than a year to late ? This team need new blood at coaching and a change of philosophy

 

[lancerman]

If you approach this question by looking at what needs to change for the Pats to be successful, then it doesn't look like the game has passed Bill by.

What does this team need to win right now? A decent QB, a couple pieces on the O-line, and a #1 WR. Easier said than done, but if the Pats have 3-4 moderately to significantly better players at key positions, they are probably 3-1 right now. All of a sudden Bill is a successful coach again. That requires a couple more hits in the draft and a willingness to spend on these positions in FA if the right players become available.

But he's the reason we don't have any of those. There's been at least two drafts in the last 4 years where Bill watched a run at WR pass right before him and just sat on his hands. WR was an issue last year as well and he didn't even draft one until the 6th round. And the one time he tried 5 years ago, he drafted N'Keal Harry. The last two first round lineman he got were Strange and Wynn who were both busts. And the QB's he drafted were Mac, Stidham and Zappe who all have been mediocre. To be fair the 2020 QB draft looks like a bust outside of Lawrence. Also, he's the one who let Brady go without a plan.

Hell just look at the 2020 draft. They traded out of a first round that had Burrow, Herbert, Tua, Whirfs, Lamb, Jefferson, Aiyuk, and Jeudy. Burrow was out of play, but they could have gotten a trade up to make a play for any of the others. And then after that you had Hurts, Higgins, Claypool, etc. And I like Dugger, but anyone of those guys makes a bigger impact

 

[DarrylS]

I am and will be forever a BB apologist, beyond the obvious lack of talent he has put together for this team coupled with several key injuries, the nepotism issues are becoming obvious... I son Steve really an NFL D coordinator??
Does the attitude that you can "coach up" mediocre talent extend to position coaches??
Despite my forever defense of BB and belief he is a unanimous choice for the Pats & NFL HOF, it is time for him to move on and allow an emerging talent to take the reins, complete with an overhaul from the front office to the position coaches..

I am completely disgusted with the level of talent on the sidelines an on the field for this team, yesterday broke my undying belief that things were getting better, they are not.

 

[Pape]

While I agree the passing game is different for teams like Miami, I take note of what the Bills did today by disrupting the timing. It just killed Miami. One of the creators of this new type of offense, McVay, came into the Super Bowl with a top 10 offense in NFL history. He left with 3 points.

While I agree that these offenses are new, I just think Belichick isn't all that impressed. He saw what the Bucs did to KC and what the Patriots did to the Rams.

That being said, I agree we haven't allocated resources to WR, and by that I mean the draft. But... I struggle to think of giving up Gonzalez or Keion White for any WRs who went after them. Obviously we took Tyquan instead of Pickens last year. In FA, we seem to spend a lot of money signing WRs and TEs. But we can't find the stud WR, and we surely don't have a QB who could do anything with one anyway.

Maybe I haven't explained what I mean adequately... it sounds complicated , but really it's not... it's the wrs yes... it's also the QB ... it's the ability to execute and score points at it's basic level...

Something we haven't been able to do vs quality teams...

 

[Pape]

I am and will be forever a BB apologist, beyond the obvious lack of talent he has put together for this team coupled with several key injuries, the nepotism issues are becoming obvious... I son Steve really an NFL D coordinator??
Does the attitude that you can "coach up" mediocre talent extend to position coaches??
Despite my forever defense of BB and belief he is a unanimous choice for the Pats & NFL HOF, it is time for him to move on and allow an emerging talent to take the reins, complete with an overhaul from the front office to the position coaches..

I am completely disgusted with the level of talent on the sidelines an on the field for this team, yesterday broke my undying belief that things were getting better, they are not.

I don't think Steve or Brian for that matter is the problem or even a problem... I think the sons of Belichick are good coaches... they both have helped field good solid defenses over the years that have been here

What's killing us are the turnovers

 

[DarrylS]

I don't think Steve or Brian for that matter is the problem or even a problem... I think the sons of Belichick are good coaches... they both have helped field good solid defenses over the years that have been here

What's killing us are the turnovers

Will not judge them, but have an issue with nepotism as neither have proven themselves in other situations... what made me think of this was yesterday BB got in Steve's face about a decision he made..

 

[upstater1]

You can shut a team down for one game but there is no way you can get to the SB doing so. And in the 2018 SB Gurley being out was huge for the Rams offense.

Patriots put 37 and 41 in the championship and division round. No way we were getting to the SB without a great offense.

Belichick plays situational football. We went up huge against San Diego. Should be no surprise that he throttled the game down and gave SD their yards after that.We did not need a great game against them.

I'll say it again: the Rams were the top 10 offense in NFL history. The Patriots played balls out D the entire game. They rocked them in the mouth the way the Giants did to us in 2007 and the way we did to the Rams in 2001.

I also think you have things reversed: it's much harder to produce offense consistently than it is to have a shut down defense.

Lastly, I agree with you on KC in 2018. But let me say this: it's very hard to go into KC for an AFCCG and win, especially when you have refs allowing all sorts of shenanigans like pick plays and whatnot. Any win there is a great win.

 

[upstater1]

Maybe I haven't explained what I mean adequately... it sounds complicated , but really it's not... it's the wrs yes... it's also the QB ... it's the ability to execute and score points at it's basic level...

Something we haven't been able to do vs quality teams...

I totally agree our offense is subpar; I didn't say otherwise.

Do I believe we are 2 players away from being a top contender?

YES.

Unfortunately those players are a middling QB and a #1 WR.

I will continue to emphasize here that this board in general continues to underrate how bad Mac is; and worse his detrimental impact on the psyche of the team.

If you have a middling QB with guts, this team instantly improves.

That QB is not on the team currently, so I will not criticize them for going with Mac--BUT I will still have a red hot poker besides me on the couch for when I want to burn my eyes out watching him play QB.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Unfortunately I doubt he puts much of the blame on himself.