Adalius Thomas dissing the coach

[MoLewisrocks]

If we're going to play the "he's hurt" game, let's point out that Seymour got hurt playing fullback for the Patriots instead of D-line, and it took multiple seasons for his leg to get right again. Defending Jarvis with "battling an injury" while denigrating Seymour with "healthy for a change" and belittling his sack totals during his injured years is just a weak argument.

Green's been starting this season, with a lot of 4 man lines and fewer double teams on the defensive linemen, and a team trying to get more pressure using that 4 man line. Zero sacks. Seymour gets double teamed a damned sight more than does Green, and he pretty much always has.

Seymour got hurt playing football. That's what Bill asks them all to do here. We have TE's blocking 300 lb DE's as 6th OLman and OLmen playing faux TE, have LB who have doubled as TE's and set records for consecutive receptions for TD's, we have starting offensive and defensive players who routinely play ST. We only have a handful of players who get paid as top 5 players for their position. We expect them to be team players and team leaders and even leave a little on the table for their backups. Seymour held out and spoke out and occasionally even whined and called out his HC. That's the other part of the equation that made sense in trading him. Should have done it sooner, as with Asante, since they didn't really make a difference in the final analysis past 2004. At least they are getting something of value going forward for Richard. And while his replacement may not be him, he also costs less than half of him.

And for the record, I liked AD and gave him the benefit of the doubt through his first two seasons because of the nature of this defense and the time he spent crosstraining at ILB and because he did get hurt. That said, if he were remotely performing up to his contract or Bill felt he was an impact player and could help this team, he'd be starting. That he still isn't and was third or fourth option this week against Indy speaks volumes. He won't be back next season unless he does a miraculous 180 over the next several weeks...and gets with the leadership program and quits rolling his eyes and gets back to baking those humble pies.

 

[Deus Irae]

Pot and kettle we are, DI. Seymour was not going to be tagged by this team in 2010 ergo he had no value guaranteed. He might net a 2011 3rd round comp pick about 95 spots later than the Oakland #1 provided we didn't end up signing an offsetting FA in a potentially uncapped season... Winning in the context it's thrown around here is championships. Seymour couldn't sack Eli although he had a bead on him a couple of times...

There's no pot and kettle here, Mo. My only 'assumption' was that 16-0 would qualify as winning, particularly since the loss in the Super Bowl was because Samuel blew a coverage. That's clearly not truly an assumption. If you think otherwise, the difference is how we define winning, not in anything I'm theoretically assuming.

Bill isn't arrogant enough to assume they will all pan out. Burgess is improving of late. Seau will provide value at some point, one way or another. The savvy vets he hung onto as long as he could were his core defensive playmakers who as is the natural order aged out.

My contention is that injury was far more devastating to the defense than age has been. Colvin's injury, the timing of Johnson's retirement and Bruschi's stroke were devastating blows to the team, regardless of age. , But that's neither here nor there. Seymour clearly was not washed up. Vrabel certainly had another year or more left in him. Those moves were calculated risks. Last night, for one game, they backfired. Seymour's absence has been noticeable all season, as the defensive line has clearly regressed without him.

I agree that teams need to transition. I'm pretty confident that this team did plenty of that with this year's draft and has enough draft picks in 2010 and 2011 that the Seymour trade was an unneeded luxury that needlessly weakened the team in 2009, when the team has been without a Super Bowl victory for 4 years.

I love it, you now assume Junior didn't fit the game plan but chastise me for assuming if Warren and Green were available be would not have been an inactive...

He couldn't "realize...." as you claimed, because Seau wasn't playing, so Belichick couldn't see it. Therefore, it had to be an decision that Seau didn't fit the game plan. I'm not making an assumption. I'm pointing out what BB must have been doing. However, for the sake of completeness, I'll concede the possibility that Belichick was covering up a Seau injury or illness, and admit that I'm assuming Belichick isn't violating league rules or hiding a disciplinary move against Seau. Given that caveat, I'm not making any assumption, but am analyzing what happened.

Bill screwed up even when Pioli and McDaniels were here. They have also screwed up both here and since they left. However, our draft appears to have improved somewhat...so that's a positive...I've always acknowledged that Bill makes mistakes, he just makes a lot less than most other HC's and he's a damn site more consistently successful in the regular and post season than any of his presently employed peers...and since I'm not into being an ass or assuming I intuitively know better than he does just for argument sake that's good enough for me.

The draft looks very good so far. But let's not have you pretending that you've been acknowledging BB's mistakes this season as if you're just laying them out there. You've been attacking pretty much everyone who's claimed he's made them.

 

[The_Natural_83]

There's no pot and kettle here, Mo. My only 'assumption' was that 16-0 would qualify as winning, particularly since the loss in the Super Bowl was because Samuel blew a coverage. That's clearly not truly an assumption. If you think otherwise, the difference is how we define winning, not in anything I'm theoretically assuming.

So the only reason the Patriots lost the Super Bowl was because of one blown coverage... okay.


My contention is that injury was far more devastating to the defense than age has been. Colvin's injury, the timing of Johnson's retirement and Bruschi's stroke were devastating blows to the team, regardless of age. , But that's neither here nor there. Seymour clearly was not washed up. Vrabel certainly had another year or more left in him. Those moves were calculated risks. Last night, for one game, they backfired. Seymour's absence has been noticeable all season, as the defensive line has clearly regressed without him.

Obviously the team is not going to improve this year by trading Seymour as it was for the future. But more importantly, injuries have happened on the D- Line to impact players. Belicheck can not predict injury.

I agree that teams need to transition. I'm pretty confident that this team did plenty of that with this year's draft and has enough draft picks in 2010 and 2011 that the Seymour trade was an unneeded luxury that needlessly weakened the team in 2009, when the team has been without a Super Bowl victory for 4 years.

Wow, four years? Are you kidding? Also, a likely top 10 pick is very lucky to have, actually look who was the team's last top 10 pick.


The draft looks very good so far. But let's not have you pretending that you've been acknowledging BB's mistakes this season as if you're just laying them out there. You've been attacking pretty much everyone who's claimed he's made them.

And you are also attacking everyone who has a different opinion. All I am saying is time will tell with the D-Line problems, how the rest of Seymour's career will go, who the Patriots will pick in 2011 or what they will do with the pick, and most importantly if the team can win a ring or rings by the time Brady rides off into the sunset.

 

[Delicate Genius]

"Let me make this perfectly clear: they hate their coach." ?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Vrabel and Seymour, to name two pretty obvious examples. Also, if the team was so gassed, weren't players like Brace and Seau available?

TBC has missed most of a game due to injury, and he has 2 less tackles and 1 less sack they Seymour at a fraction of the price. Vrable has one whole sack. Both of them play on defenses that are on the field a ton. Say whatever you want, the truth remains the same.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Everyone can argue till they're blue in the face about Seymour. Vrabs is a different matter. Anyone who thinks Vrabs would've helped last night is nuts. He looked like he was running in quick sand in 08'. He would've been no help at all in the colts game

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Maybe if the DOG that is Adelius Thomas actually made a big play for this team the coach would have confidence in his defense on the road during crunch time. Ray Lewis was right about Thomas. His success in Baltimore was strictly because of the talent around him.

 

[upstater1]

I agree that Adalius is not playing anywhere near his contract.

On the other hand, his replacement is Pierre Woods.

One of these kids, McKenzie or Crable, has to pan out next year for them not to have a drop off after Adalius is dumped.

 

[PatsfanGlo]

Adalius Thomas should stfu and look at his own game tape. More than half the time, he looked like he was jogging to passer, not rushing the passer. I mean after TBC goes down, Ninkovich, who probably doesn't even make one third of AT's salary, was in the game. Think BB would be comfortable putting that crap against suddenly hot Manning?

 

[fourthandmiles]

Did anyone see him on that last drive? No penetration, no effort. He was standing there playing patty-cake.

 

[aluminum seats]

Thomas has reached the point that he should start hearing it from the home fans, if he hasn't already. What a bust. It's funny--that was a case of a free agent that everybody was clamoring for and the Pats went out and got him. Rare case of the Pats doing what everyone wanted. And look where it got them.

On the Seymour angle which this thread turned into (nice job, guys, way to stay on point), the defense wasn't "gassed" last night, they transitioned to prevent, and it's hard to transition out of that once you take your foot off the pedal. The Seymour trade was a good one.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

I really can't fathom how some of you really can believe that having seymour against the colts wouldn't have changed the dimension of that game considerably. Especially in that soft zone the pats love to go into.

Sacks are great but what really matter are QB pressures hits and changing the opponents gameplan and seymour does those things. We couldn't do any of those while manning was going up and down the field during my bathroom break.

 

[The Dynasty]

Thomas has reached the point that he should start hearing it from the home fans, if he hasn't already. What a bust. It's funny--that was a case of a free agent that everybody was clamoring for and the Pats went out and got him. Rare case of the Pats doing what everyone wanted. And look where it got them.

On the Seymour angle which this thread turned into (nice job, guys, way to stay on point), the defense wasn't "gassed" last night, they transitioned to prevent, and it's hard to transition out of that once you take your foot off the pedal. The Seymour trade was a good one.

I agree that Thomas has been a bust. Sunday night clearly showed that BB's faith in Thomas is lacking since when TBC went down Ninkovich was the one who replaced him rather than AD. Clearly with AD's comments after the game him and BB arent seeing eye to eye.

As for the Seymour aspect of the thread, as I previously stated the defense shouldnt have been gassed, nor do I think they were, just look at the TOP numbers. The Seymour trade was definitely a good one and I think it will look even better with whoever we use that pick on in 2011. That draft class looks to be extremely strong.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If AT had actually done his job last night, it wouldn't have come down to that. The Pats were in pretty desperate need of some pass rush with Warren, Green, and TBC all out, but it sure as hell wasn't coming from Adalius. At least Burgess stepped up.

 

[Halifax_Pats_Fan]

Come on Adalius, this isn't kindergarten. You have an ego, you came from a team of egos, and you have not successfully checked it at the door.

I anticipate a BB "it didn't work out" coming on your behalf. You had great talent. Prove to yourself you have great talent....and show everybody else you have great talent, this will actually compensate you very well...

 

[Garbanza]

First of all, I take everything that Curran says with a grain of salt after his Brady prognosis. Second, I saw the interview - and although he may have wanted to tell Bill to stick a hot poker up his butt, he refrained and said "go ask the coach." He looked upset - but my guess is that a lot of the players on d were as well. They single out Thomas because it's a better headline.

 

[RobertWeathers]

First of all, I take everything that Curran says with a grain of salt after his Brady prognosis. Second, I saw the interview - and although he may have wanted to tell Bill to stick a hot poker up his butt, he refrained and said "go ask the coach." He looked upset - but my guess is that a lot of the players on d were as well. They single out Thomas because it's a better headline.

I agree. Curran smacks sensationalizm and headline grabbers with shaky irresponsible journalism.

With that said, I do think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I would not be suprised that AD and Curren have forged some kind of a relationship where he gets info/thoughts off the record and uses it to construct some kind of story. However, as noted earlier in this thread I'm sure many players on the D were PO'd with BBs decision, but kept their feelings to themselves.

My .02$

 

[pats1]

Crable starts to "come on"? What's the measure of that? That he gets into a regular season game? Crable?

I was with you up until that. I am frustrated by the irony that when we put our best secondary out in years against Indy, we start the game so weak on the D-line. Then TBC goes down.

Where' the justice?!

By "coming on," I meant maybe they'll get some use out of him next year.

I wouldn't say the D-line was that weak. Myron Pryor is turning into a pretty good player. Wright and Wilfork are solid. Can you point to plays where you thought the DL was weak? Or are you simply criticizing the pass rush, which doesn't come from the DL?

 

[mr3putt]

AD's play is fast writing his ticket out of town
A major disapointment but.......

He should try and be as stealthy as possible while Bill decides how long he remains on the active roster

 

[emoney_33]

Vrabel and Seymour, to name two pretty obvious examples. Also, if the team was so gassed, weren't players like Brace and Seau available?

I mean I guess if BB weren't so stupid he would have known that Warren + Jarvis would be hurt for the Colts game, so he should have done the team a future disservice and kept Seymour if only to play in this game alone. Oh yea and he absolutely should have known Tully was going to get hurt in the 1st quarter too. Vrabel + Seymour would have us undefeated right now, and one more year of Seymour is definitely more valuable than a future first round pick!