A tale of a draft SQUANDERED....

[pheenix11]

Well after looking over the board it seems like everyone hates this draft.

So that can only mean one thing, it will probably go down as Belichick's best ever.

One thing I have learned in life, whenever the crowd overwhelmingly goes one way, more often than not you would be wise to go the opposite direction.

 

[skinnydog]

I actually didn't see the Pats having many serious needs heading into this draft but, LT is a monumental need obviously.

I love Law firm but his best asset is he doesn't fumble. A good asset mind you but not something that can't be improved upon. And Faulk, Morris and Taylor are ancient and done. So, getting 2 young and skilled RB's to replace 3 that are leaving seems like a wise exchange.

As for Mallett, he was the #1 rated QB on the Pats draft board and they were presented with an opportunity to draft him late in the 3rd. Kinda tough to be critical of such a value pick IMHO.

OK, I just give up. The Pats can't rush the QB and are the worst (by far) at getting off the field on third down and you just don't see a serious need. Must be the new NFL where letting the other team go on long drives is now the key to success.

 

[patman12]

PFK is one of this site's most unabashed homers. If his posting is too negative for you, you must be married to Belichick. So, if he's not happy with the draft, it's not about Chicken Little.

Any in depth analysis at this point is reactionary at best. I have no issues if someone disagrees with picks that were made but to call this a draft squandered is the epitome of sky falling mentality.

 

[eom]

I also expected them to draft someone who could play guard, but what's the story with ohrnberger?
maybe he's in the plans.

 

[patman12]

OK, I just give up. The Pats can't rush the QB and are the worst (by far) at getting off the field on third down and you just don't see a serious need. Must be the new NFL where letting the other team go on long drives is now the key to success.

Getting Bodden and Warren back will go a long way in addressing those issues.

 

[skinnydog]

What do you know about drafting? Seriously, what is your experience and knowledge base in this area? You want to make a claim that you have "knowledge" about the subject so lets hear it.

Have you done any of the following:
Been in a war rooms.
Spent time analysing college game films.
Attended combines.
Interviewed players.
Access to college coaches for opinions.
Coached at a proffesional level.
Have the playbook of the drafting team.
Know which skill sets fit with a teams strengths.
Understand the injury status of veterans under contract.
Understand the FA targets that a team my be eyeing.

So where is your "knowledge" coming from that makes you even the slightest bit informed?

This is just stupid. Why even bother ever looking at or offering an opinion on a message board? So unless you are BB himself, don't bother commenting? This is dumb.

 

[Deus Irae]

Any in depth analysis at this point is reactionary at best. I have no issues if someone disagrees with picks that were made but to call this a draft squandered is the epitome of sky falling mentality.

I'd call it the epitome of a homer who's had enough. Did PFK overreact? Probably, but he usually does that in favor of the Patriots, which is the point I was trying to get across.

 

[skinnydog]

Getting Bodden and Warren back will go a long way in addressing those issues.

They weren't much better when both were on the field. Are you really counting on Warren to come back and automatically be the player he was?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I find it's almost always better to take a breath or several before commenting on what Bill does in any draft. I'll be the first to admit that I'm thinking of finally not watching the draft anymore unless I happen to be conveniently in the position to and nothing compelling is on another station...

That said, I also realize that I don't have a clue in comparison to Bill and his staff as to what goes into making this team better or who the hell any of these college kids are or how their talents might translate in the NFL let alone on a 14-2 team that may not win it all but consistently wins more than almost anyone else who doesn't always win it all either...

He obviously didn't like this draft as much as most pundits. Mallett was the only 1st round QB on his board and he fell to the third round after 6 lesser talents got gobbled up by desperate teams scared off by off field concerns nobody wants to articulate for public consumption. Whatever. If he's Beldsoe II provided those concerns can be laid to rest, he won't replace Tom but he might make Hoyer worth a 2 next spring. I get the flip 'em value mentality only it doesn't generally happen unless you showcase them (which isn't Bill's style). But perhaps if Cassel continues to do well and Hoyer succeeds elsewhere, Mallett could build value simply by existing here... Worst case scenario he's another KOC waste of a 3. And is that really any worse than say a corner or some other player you actually rotate in only to have them hurt you? He'll be the inactive clipboard holder with Compton even possibly ahead of him on speed dial via PS if a need arises... No more helpful nor harmful than say Fred Taylor was all last season...

Tedy has expressed some concern that while the team needed to get younger, it may in danger of getting too young too fast. Tough given the current situation, but Bill may also share that concern and be anticipating that when the dust settles on a new CBA with a tighter than anticipated cap, he will be in position to add two or three grizzled but still productive vets to key positions to fill out his roster and better balance his talent vs. experience.

IBBWT isn't about genuflecting or claiming he's invincible. It's about acknowledging he's earned the right to make decisions for this team fans can't always comprehend or appreciate based on his record including not winning less than double digit games per season since 2002... And despite how much we or our message board gurus and cousins believe we could do better blindfolded, that's just arrogance and ignorance talking. This isn't fantasy football or HS football or anything most of us have any basis on which to claim we know better than a HOF pro and his staff what it takes to field a competitive team year after year. Heck, half of these talents and the guys who drafted them will be out a job if not out of the league in the next 4-5 years or less.

 

[ausbacker]

They weren't much better when both were on the field. Are you really counting on Warren to come back and automatically be the player he was?

He doesn't have to be the player that he was he needs to be an upgrade over what the Patriots had in 2010, which conventional wisdom suggests he will be.

 

[Deus Irae]

What do you know about drafting? Seriously, what is your experience and knowledge base in this area? You want to make a claim that you have "knowledge" about the subject so lets hear it.

Have you done any of the following:
Been in a war rooms.
Spent time analysing college game films.
Attended combines.
Interviewed players.
Access to college coaches for opinions.
Coached at a proffesional level.
Have the playbook of the drafting team.
Know which skill sets fit with a teams strengths.
Understand the injury status of veterans under contract.
Understand the FA targets that a team my be eyeing.

So where is your "knowledge" coming from that makes you even the slightest bit informed?

Without wasting too much time here, exactly how many years of intense study do you think it takes to hear former coach after former coach say something like "player A has lost a step, and his team is going to have to look to replace him", do a little research to find similar players and form an informed opinion? How many years does it take to learn to watch football enough to form opinions on what you're seeing?

On this board, we talk football all year long. Not everyone understands what two-gapping is, but pretty much everyone understands that Seymour, Wilfork and Warren made for a very good defensive line.

Your argument is nothing more than an appeal to authority. When that authority becomes infallible, you'll have a point. Until then, your argument won't hold water.

 

[Mike the Brit]

I think the Pats draft has been brilliant thus far.

I love the added players and I am stoked that an extra 1st and extra 2nd were added to boot.

I am delighted with the Ryan Mallett pick.

Looking at Mallett play in the last three years, it was obvious that he had talent that other "pro-style" quarterbacks didn't. Of course, some teams would prefer a Mike Vick/Vince Young/Jake Locker guy, but that isn't the majority, and my lying eyes (copyright Box O Rocks) tell me that Mallett is in advance of where Stafford or Bradford were when they were drafted. Mallett was closer to Peyton Manning than anyone I've seen in college in the last few years.

On the other hand, there is his character and personality. It would be OK (for some teams) if he were just an out-of-control meathead -- look at Ben Roethlisberger -- but listening to him with Gruden (for instance) shows that it's worse. He comes across as an immature and weak person -- someone who will be a sucker for what other tell him.

So he has to grow up -- and where better than in Foxboro with the tough culture and Tom Brady as a role model?

And, if it doesn't work out, big deal. Good gamble -- high return/risk ratio.

 

[BSR]

This is just stupid. Why even bother ever looking at or offering an opinion on a message board? So unless you are BB himself, don't bother commenting? This is dumb.

As I said before, some just need a reminder of how uninformed they really are.

 

[State]

I agree Mallett is a talented passer but there's a reason he dropped as far as he did. I think the Mallett pick may have pushed me over the edge. I was alright with Solder, not flashy and I thought we could have waited for O-line but if BB thinks its the right choice I'll take it. Wish we would have stayed at 28 and taken a DL. Don't mind Dowling, maybe a reach but indications suggest the Bills liked him also. As far as RB goes I think you could have asked 10 different people to rate all the RBs in this draft in order and you'd have got 10 completely different outcomes. But I just cannot believe we took Mallett. Not only does he have huge character concerns but we wasted a pick we could have used to shore up our DL or pass rush. This is only made worse by the fact that Kenrick Ellis fell to the Jets :bricks:. Unless BB can envision trading Mallett as soon as FA opens up to someone who coveted him I really cannot see the point. If we've taken him to develop and then trade it'll be 2-3 years before we see any value from him by which point TB is getting close to retiring and our window may be closing. I don't even want to think about the possibility that he's been drafted as Brady's replacement, I don't think I can stomach 10 years of that insufferable douche

I just came across this interesting nugget:

the NY Jets Select Inmate Number 400321

With the Jets 3rd Round Pick, the NY Jets Select Inmate Number 400321 - Gang Green Nation

Kenrick Ellis has a pending assault charge that may go to trial that carries with it a 20-year sentence.

On other players we inadvertently "gave" to other teams, by not drafting the much more polished Castonzo, the Colts got him. He'll step in on day one and be the above-average LT, esp. in passing situations, that the Colts desperately need.

By not going for Wilkerson at 28, the Jets got him. And we can watch him thrash Koppen and the replacement we have at RG for Neal for years to come.

And I think the rest of the League will be laughing at us when the Saints go 15-1 and Mark Ingram gains 1500 yards.

BB knows what he's doing, but he lets pride sometimes get in the way.

 

[Ring 6]

The whole draft smacks of arrogance, classic BB. We know more than anyone else! And sometimes we're right...

How do you get 'we know more than anyone else' out of a draft board? Who is it that he is trying to show he knows more than? That is just a ridiculous statement.

Solder - eh. May be a star - some day -but we could have traded back from 17 a few spots gaining a 3rd and 4th, and still gotten Solder or at least Constanzo,

The Giants were taking him at 19. Why would we want Constanzo and a 4th if the Giants didnt want him? Are you really telling me that a smart pick is to not get the guy you think is best because another guy at the same position got drafted a little later?

or even Cam Jordan AND Mark Ingram, and then traded 33 for a 1st next year that would have certainly been MUCH higher than NO's will be.

BB clearly did not value these players as highly as you do. Reportedly Ingram was 3rd at best on the RB board.
Clearly he preferred Solder to Jordan.

If BB thought we needed some RB talent then why not get the stud RB of the draft AND pick up extra picks AND get help for the 3rd down problem? Ugh.

Because he did not feel Ingram was a stud RB, most likely because of the durabilty concerns.

Taking Dowling at 33 is difficult to understand when we could have moved down 3, 4, 5, 6, etc., spots and still got this guy who was bound for much later in the round/draft while picking up at least an extra 3rd, minimum, probably more. Value?

You have absolutely no clue where he would have been chosen nor did BB. Its silly to let the guy you want go to move down and lose him. He has almost 24 hours on this pick, I think he considered all options.

BB talks value all the time. Well where's the value in taking a guy who despite his borderline 1st round talent has had enough injury issues that every assesment you could read on him had him in the very late 2nd at the earliest. Was Dowling that much better than Williams - picked next - that he was worth the highest pick in the 2nd AND what we lost by moving down just a few spots? No way.

I will take BB and the Patriots scouting staff's assessment of the player over your memory of what you think you read.

Then Vereen? OK, he's Faulk's replacement. Eh, we'll see, it's hard to say other backs were better.

Woodhead is Faulks replacement. Vereen is an every down back.

Picking Ridley leaves me confused and frustated.

Contrary to what you seem to feel, your clarity and level of frustration is not a centerpiece of the draft strategy.

Ridley is a fine player, he will help, he's a character guy from a big time program, yeah, yeah, yeah. But without using two picks anywhere near this high we've pieced together a RB squad the last few years that worked well enough compared to a near complete inability to pressure the opposing QB. An arrogant, almost defiant pick. Or, even worse, an almost clueless one.

What role does BB expect him to play? How do the Pats feel about contract negotiations with their only RB that can play every down after this years RFA? Will they have a RB left on the roster from before this draft in 1 year? What stengths led BB to want this player, and how does he feel he will help the team win? You have no clue to these answers, so your claim that the pick was clueless is ignorant.
What exactly makes a pick arrogant? Who is he defying? For what reason? You are sounding like a moron.

Then Mallet? I watched a bunch of interviews, etc. with him. I could be wrong but here's my take - Ryan Leaf II.

You watched interviews, and feel that gives you a better judgment of him that the Patriots who studied his career, talked to his coaches and interviewed him at length? Nice.

Great arm, leader, etc., but something just doesn't click when you look him in the eyes.

When did you look him in the eyes, and please tell me what you saw. Dude you are embarrassing yourself.

But great, we have Brady's replacement for 4rys from now when he quits in frustration from not being able to win another SB. And that makes me sad..

The Patriots had him rated the #1 QB in a draft where 4 QBs were taken in the first 12 picks. If you cannot see how it is a no brainer to take him at 74 give those circumstances, you should stop commenting on football.

But what about our inability to get off the field on 3rd down? Or the pathetic sight of a very average guy like Sanchez carving up our D because we can't get a fingernail on him when he goes back to pass?

Nope, we don't have worry about what the entire NFL is crazy for - a good pass rush. Nope, the all knowing-all arrogant one says we don't even need to take a Sam Acho, or any flier on a a guy who can rush. Nope, we'll trade our remaining 3rd and our only 4th for a pick next year. Great, it's a 2nd but Brady will 35!!!

We added Ty Warren, Marcus Stroud, Dawson, Bodden to last years young defense that improved consistently throughout the season and was 4th in points allowed from week 3 through the end of the season.
Drafting a guy just because his position is pass rusher doesnt improve your pass rush.
Who would have thought that BB would be so arrogant that he would use the majority of his draft to add youth to his veteran offense, seemingly ready to use FA to add experience to his young defense.
If we add a veteran OLB in FA who is a solid pass rusher, you cannot name a player drafted 17 or after who would be certain to start, or even contribute heavily in 2011.
But, no, acting like a prick and throwing insults around like you know something is a better idea.

ugh.[/QUOTE]

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

OK, I just give up. The Pats can't rush the QB and are the worst (by far) at getting off the field on third down and you just don't see a serious need. Must be the new NFL where letting the other team go on long drives is now the key to success.

....... and they just just decades younger at a position the KEEPS YOU ON THE FIELD on 3rd down.... which has a converse effect on your defense. Ummm, is this your first year?

Totally legit to not love this draft.... all of us have a few head scratchers that make us think "Gee, wonder what Bill thinking there". That does not mean it's legitimate to pronounce 2/3 of the way through the draft that that "the dream is over".

There is more then just rushing the passer. I see logic in all of these picks. Doesn't mean you agree with all of them, just that "yup, I can see that". Adding 2 young RB might not be your idea a addressing a need but when you have 5 backs and three of them with an average of 46 years... yeah.... I can see why we did that..... Same thing at CB....... If we can find a guy to allow us to dump $$Bodden$$. That might mean we can address other stuff at another time.

 

[Luke Skywelker]

This is just stupid. Why even bother ever looking at or offering an opinion on a message board? So unless you are BB himself, don't bother commenting? This is dumb.

Would also suggest that BB is the only smart NFL mind and that every other is a pion next to him - with the advent of the internet and the dissection of drafts by everyone and their mother, plenty of opportunity to see/read about players such that BB isn't some Oz sitting behind a curtain knowing something everyone else doesn't. At some point after you see how the draft unfolds, a lot of this stuff is consensus. This draft unfolded how so many people called it, give or take. So is BB smarter than every other NFL organization and analyst/expert out there - the dude is not some wonder savant, it's not that complicated. I recall not too long ago that they traded out of a pick that pulled the arguable best defensive player in the NFL and took Darius Butler some few picks later.

 

[Deus Irae]

They weren't much better when both were on the field. Are you really counting on Warren to come back and automatically be the player he was?

To be fair, a healthy Warren and Bodden should help the team a lot.

Warren
Wilfork
????

Cunningham
Mayo
Spikes/????
????

McCourty
Bodden
Meriweather
Chung/Sanders

Not solving those question marks (and, for some, not getting a high level prospect at WR) is the problem I think most people are having right now, since I think most people understand that the team needed to address O-line and RB, one way or another (although that might not be true, given the amount of crap some of us took for saying the team needed to look at RB in the first 2 rounds). Other than the Mallet pick, I think the biggest issue isn't what has been done, but what hasn't.

Of course, I could be reading people wrong.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

OK, I just give up. The Pats can't rush the QB and are the worst (by far) at getting off the field on third down and you just don't see a serious need. Must be the new NFL where letting the other team go on long drives is now the key to success.

I believe the Pats feel the guys currently on the team offered a better chance of getting to the QB than what was available to them in this draft. Given all of the high picks spent on defense the last 4 years (many of whom who are young and improving) they probably are right.

Of course, I defer to their intimate knowledge of their personnel and how that is all shaking out since they are the pros and not I.

 

[Aßßynormal]

I agree Mallett is a talented passer but there's a reason he dropped as far as he did. I think the Mallett pick may have pushed me over the edge. I was alright with Solder, not flashy and I thought we could have waited for O-line but if BB thinks its the right choice I'll take it. Wish we would have stayed at 28 and taken a DL. Don't mind Dowling, maybe a reach but indications suggest the Bills liked him also. As far as RB goes I think you could have asked 10 different people to rate all the RBs in this draft in order and you'd have got 10 completely different outcomes. But I just cannot believe we took Mallett. Not only does he have huge character concerns but we wasted a pick we could have used to shore up our DL or pass rush. This is only made worse by the fact that Kenrick Ellis fell to the Jets :bricks:. Unless BB can envision trading Mallett as soon as FA opens up to someone who coveted him I really cannot see the point. If we've taken him to develop and then trade it'll be 2-3 years before we see any value from him by which point TB is getting close to retiring and our window may be closing. I don't even want to think about the possibility that he's been drafted as Brady's replacement, I don't think I can stomach 10 years of that insufferable douche

Is Ellis better than Weston? If so, by how much? A 3rd round pick more? Is he better than Brace or Stroud?

The fact is, Ellis comes from a program not considered even remotely elite. Mallet is the better choice for US not the Jets. We have a lot of decent DLman ........ how much better than "decent" is Ellis for US. Is he better than Stroud, Warren, Brace ... and if so by how much. We have Wilfork as a starter on top of all this.

As for character concerns, BB judges that up close. He works for Myra and Bob and that puts constraints on him. Let him be the judge since he has the "down dirty" and we don't.

We can't control what the the other 31 do. The Jets are well coached and, lately, well run.