A tale of a draft SQUANDERED....

[Ring 6]

This is just stupid. Why even bother ever looking at or offering an opinion on a message board? So unless you are BB himself, don't bother commenting? This is dumb.

You invite that comment when you criticize a decision based on your opinion of the quality of the player.
If you can illustrate that your level of knowledge is similar or that you have the same amount of information at your disposal then you can criticize based on your opinion of the quality of the player. Otherwise its like calling your mutual fund manager and telling him your neighbor said Xerox is a great buy and he's an idiot if he doesnt invest the whole wad in it.

 

[eom]

Would also suggest that BB is the only smart NFL mind and that every other is a pion next to him - with the advent of the internet and the dissection of drafts by everyone and their mother, plenty of opportunity to see/read about players such that BB isn't some Oz sitting behind a curtain knowing something everyone else doesn't. At some point after you see how the draft unfolds, a lot of this stuff is consensus. This draft unfolded how so many people called it, give or take. So is BB smarter than every other NFL organization and analyst/expert out there - the dude is not some wonder savant, it's not that complicated. I recall not too long ago that they traded out of a pick that pulled the arguable best defensive player in the NFL and took Darius Butler some few picks later.

meaning he makes the rest feel very small?

 

[ausbacker]

I am delighted with the Ryan Mallett pick.

Looking at Mallett play in the last three years, it was obvious that he had talent that other "pro-style" quarterbacks didn't. Of course, some teams would prefer a Mike Vick/Vince Young/Jake Locker guy, but that isn't the majority, and my lying eyes (copyright Box O Rocks) tell me that Mallett is in advance of where Stafford or Bradford were when they were drafted. Mallett was closer to Peyton Manning than anyone I've seen in college in the last few years.

On the other hand, there is his character and personality. It would be OK (for some teams) if he were just an out-of-control meathead -- look at Ben Roethlisberger -- but listening to him with Gruden (for instance) shows that it's worse. He comes across as an immature and weak person -- someone who will be a sucker for what other tell him.

So he has to grow up -- and where better than in Foxboro with the tough culture and Tom Brady as a role model?

And, if it doesn't work out, big deal. Good gamble -- high return/risk ratio.

If Mallett's mental issues and character concerns are truly problematic then there is no better place for him to fix those issues than under the GOAT in Tom Brady and his football genius coach Bill Belichick. Apart from learning under Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees there isn't a better environment to be in as a aspiring NFL QB starter.

This is a risk for reward pick. That I have no doubt about.

 

[skinnydog]

....... and they just just decades younger at a position the KEEPS YOU ON THE FIELD on 3rd down.... which has a converse effect on your defense. Ummm, is this your first year?


There is more then just rushing the passer. I see logic in all of these picks. Doesn't mean you agree with all of them, just that "yup, I can see that". Adding 2 young RB might not be your idea a addressing a need but when you have 5 backs and three of them with an average of 46 years... yeah.... I can see why we did that..... Same thing at CB....... If we can find a guy to allow us to dump $$Bodden$$. That might mean we can address other stuff at another time.

Did you even watch the offense last year? The defense? At all.

 

[Ring 6]

I completely, totally, and utterly agree. I think that while Atlanta overpaid a little to move up to #6, BB could have done it with probably 17, 33, and 92.

For what?
You do realize Atlanta gave 2 1s, 2 2s and a 4 right?
How is a 1, 2 and 3 better than that?

 

[BSR]

Without wasting too much time here, exactly how many years of intense study do you think it takes to hear former coach after former coach say something like "player A has lost a step, and his team is going to have to look to replace him", do a little research to find similar players and form an informed opinion? How many years does it take to learn to watch football enough to form opinions on what you're seeing?

On this board, we talk football all year long. Not everyone understands what two-gapping is, but pretty much everyone understands that Seymour, Wilfork and Warren made for a very good defensive line.

Your argument is nothing more than an appeal to authority. When that authority becomes infallible, you'll have a point. Until then, your argument won't hold water.

My argument has nothing to do with any appeal to authority. My argument is that you are uninformed in the area of drafting. You seem to disagree so I am asking you to prove it. So simply, what is your knowledge base?

So far we have:
Reading this board and statements in passing made by undisclosed ex coaches about undisclosed players. (appeal to authority?)

You also made some reference to "research". So what is this "research" you are referencing? Hopefully it isn't more appeal to authoirty.

So far you aren't convincing me.

 

[skinnydog]

You invite that comment when you criticize a decision based on your opinion of the quality of the player.
If you can illustrate that your level of knowledge is similar or that you have the same amount of information at your disposal then you can criticize based on your opinion of the quality of the player. Otherwise its like calling your mutual fund manager and telling him your neighbor said Xerox is a great buy and he's an idiot if he doesnt invest the whole wad in it.

How many of those questions did you answer yes to?

 

[Deus Irae]

My argument has nothing to do with any appeal to authority. My argument is that you are uninformed in the area of drafting. You seem to disagree so I am asking you to prove it. So simply, what is your knowledge base?

So far we have:
Reading this board and statements in passing made by undisclosed ex coaches about undisclosed players. (appeal to authority?)

You also made some reference to "research". So what is this "research" you are referencing? Hopefully it isn't more appeal to authoirty.

So far you aren't convincing me.

I'm not trying to convince you, because your initial comment was nonsensical. I merely pointed that out. I don't feel a need to discuss something as obvious as "I watched games, I listened to analysts", etc...

Now, you go nag someone else in this thread. I'm tired of dealing with those who don't bother to actually think for themselves and only fall back on the "But BB knows!" Chestnut.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes, well hindsight is 20/20. It will be even more obvious in a couple of years.

I'm not sure BB was imagining this type of a haul 2 days ago. This doesn't seem like his finest hour. Then again, we could be looking at this draft in 5 years and saying - "wow, what a great draft that was".


Anyway, even trading to 6 would assume there's somebody there worth taking. I'm not 100% sure that anybody drafted between 5 and 16 was worth it.

If we end up with a probowl LT for 10 years (a #17 being a probowler is not a stretch) a starting FS to go along with McCourty, Bodden, and Chung, or corner if he stays there, to form one of the top secondaries in the NFL, a RB that is at least a 50/50 'starter' and a reserve RB plus what the team felt was the best QB in the draft, how is that "not the finest hour".
Your disagreement with which positions were addressed in the draft (before even seeing what FA brings) has caused you to add a negative projection about each pick on top of your belief we didn't fill needs.
Of course the draft sucked if every players isn't talented enough to be picked where he was, but do you really believe thats the case?
And if it is, why would you have any hope that a guy who could do that would ever have a draft you like?

 

[Ring 6]

How many of those questions did you answer yes to?

None, which is why I don't have the arrogance to suggest that my player evaluation skills even belong in a discussion about whether Bill Belichick graded a player properly. You?

 

[Triumph]

I am delighted with the Ryan Mallett pick.

Looking at Mallett play in the last three years, it was obvious that he had talent that other "pro-style" quarterbacks didn't. Of course, some teams would prefer a Mike Vick/Vince Young/Jake Locker guy, but that isn't the majority, and my lying eyes (copyright Box O Rocks) tell me that Mallett is in advance of where Stafford or Bradford were when they were drafted. Mallett was closer to Peyton Manning than anyone I've seen in college in the last few years.

On the other hand, there is his character and personality. It would be OK (for some teams) if he were just an out-of-control meathead -- look at Ben Roethlisberger -- but listening to him with Gruden (for instance) shows that it's worse. He comes across as an immature and weak person -- someone who will be a sucker for what other tell him.

So he has to grow up -- and where better than in Foxboro with the tough culture and Tom Brady as a role model?

And, if it doesn't work out, big deal. Good gamble -- high return/risk ratio.

NE is the perfect place for Mallet.

He will learn right quick to fly right or GTFO. The Pats wont put up with any crap and there are plenty of guys in the locker room to clue him in on whats up.

Its a good pick because once Mallet gets his mind right and starts throwing all over the field, some teams will be salivating to get him.

 

[Mike the Brit]

If Mallett's mental issues and character concerns are truly problematic then there is no better place for him to fix those issues than under the GOAT in Tom Brady and his football genius coach Bill Belichick. Apart from learning under Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees there isn't a better environment to be in as a aspiring NFL QB starter.

This is a risk for reward pick. That I have no doubt about.

We're of one mind. :rocker: And it's a lucky team that can afford to make the investment.

 

[upstater1]

Uh, most were upset with McCourty because they wanted a defensive end or linebacker and most were happy with the other picks you list.

Why is this so hard to understand? The picks might be pretty good, but if the D can't get off the field again on third down, it's all for naught.

No, wrong. They were not happy. Not happy at all. Those picks got blasted, all four of them.

 

[Tunescribe]

I'm not trying to convince you, because your initial comment was nonsensical. I merely pointed that out. I don't feel a need to discuss something as obvious as "I watched games, I listened to analysts", etc...

Now, you go nag someone else in this thread. I'm tired of dealing with those who don't bother to actually think for themselves and only fall back on the "But BB knows!" Chestnut.

Oh, but "Deus Irae knows," right? Gotta hand it to you, at least you're consistent.

 

[Ring 6]

To be fair, a healthy Warren and Bodden should help the team a lot.

Warren
Wilfork
????

Cunningham
Mayo
Spikes/????
????

McCourty
Bodden
Meriweather
Chung/Sanders

Not solving those question marks (and, for some, not getting a high level prospect at WR) is the problem I think most people are having right now, since I think most people understand that the team needed to address O-line and RB, one way or another (although that might not be true, given the amount of crap some of us took for saying the team needed to look at RB in the first 2 rounds). Other than the Mallet pick, I think the biggest issue isn't what has been done, but what hasn't.

Of course, I could be reading people wrong.

When you also consider depth (guys like Brace, Guyton, Fletcher, TBC, Dawson, Butler are quality depth) and assume that Stroud can continue to be a strong run defender, and that is why he was brought in, or that Brace can take the next step (hardly asking for the world that one of the 2 works out) if an OLB were added in FA then the entire draft strategy of adding youth to a veteran offense and veterans to a young defense makes perfect sense.

I think the frustrating part of this board is that people seem so intent to gripe that actual act as if there really isn't a plan, and Belichick just forgets that a defense has to rush the passer, and lets great players who would guarantee a SB pass by while he snoozes.
I can accept not understanding the plan, but to conclude not understanding the plan means there isn't one is way too flippant to be taken seriously, IMO.

 

[borg]

Are the 14-2 Patriots a better team today compared to when the season ended. No doubt.
3 months ago/ vs /today
CB....McCourty and JAGS/ McCourty, Bodden, Dowling
RB...BJGE, Woodhead, and two vets that provided ZERO production/ BJGE, Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley
DT,DE.....Wilfork and a motley crew/ Wilfork, Warren, Wright, and other returners from injury

Looking at LT: The Pats hopefully have transformed from solid to elite. If Solder is elite, then TEs will no longer be relied upon to be an extension of the O line

Looking at CB: BB has broken his pattern of mini DBs...why?...Adding another physical corner to jam at the LOS? A CB that can go toe to toe with the big straightline WRs? A CB built to match the pass catching TEs? Merriweather's replacement?

Looking at 3rd Down RB: Can any Pat fan argue against the importance of a special 3rd down back. In a league where games are decided by only a handful of plays, the Pats have shown year after year that the 3rd down RB is vital to their offense. The Patriots were lucky that Woodhead fell into their laps last year. This year they will be prepared with depth.

Looking at the power RB: BJGE is many things, but steam roller isn't one. All I can say about Ridley, besides excelling in the SEC, is that the Patriots love the guy. From their mouths to your ears...via a few go betweens...they love the guy.

Now looking at draft slots.
The Patriots picked the 2nd OT in rd 1, but picked first ahead of the 4 playoff teams that drafted tackles in round 1....that is a win
Round 2A....the Patriots drafted ahead of every playoff team and in fact every team, grabbing Dowling ahead of the Bills who chose DB as well.
Round 2B....The Patriots grabbed Vereen ahead of Detroit's RB pick and this mini run most likely forced Miami to burn 3 picks to get a RB in late second.
Round 3: 2 picks ahead of all but 2 playoff teams.

Bottom line:
The offense will be deeper and likely more balanced
Defense will return 2 starters plus added a physical CB that likely removes a meek U Conn CB.
Extra players compared to most other teams
Extra future picks that should ensure a very bright future.
As far as Mallet goes, I really can't feel bad about collecting the best SEC passer. Anyone remember what they said about Brady.....

 

[BSR]

I'm not trying to convince you, because your initial comment was nonsensical. I merely pointed that out. I don't feel a need to discuss something as obvious as "I watched games, I listened to analysts", etc...

Now, you go nag someone else in this thread. I'm tired of dealing with those who don't bother to actually think for themselves and only fall back on the "But BB knows!" Chestnut.

You listened to analysts? So your whole premise is an appeal to authority then? Right? Oh, I forgot you watched games too. I guess that make my wife and kids experts as well.

Listen, you want to pretend like you are "informed" then go right ahead. But when you try to challenge my statement that almost everyone on this board is uninformed and then have NOTHING to back it up with then that is on you.

And you wont find me screaming "BB Knows" anywhere in this thread. But I have the constraint to not fly off the handle with every choice or misstep.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh, but "Deus Irae knows," right? Gotta hand it to you, at least you're consistent.

Where did I make that claim? I put forth my opinion, just the same as you do. You're more than welcome to disagree with that opinion. It just shouldn't be too much to ask that you come with more than "BB did it, so it must be right".

Belichick had a hell of a 2010 draft. 2009 started out looking tremendous, but has taken some hits. 2008 has turned out to be a pretty bad one for the Patriots. Fallibility of this sort is to be expected.

For some reason, though, a fair number of people here feel the need to pretend that BB is basically perfect, and completely beyond question. Sorry, I'm not buying that.

 

[skinnydog]

None, which is why I don't have the arrogance to suggest that my player evaluation skills even belong in a discussion about whether Bill Belichick graded a player properly. You?

Again to me this is dumb. Why, do you even bother posting here if your attitude is that BB is always correct?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

They weren't much better when both were on the field. Are you really counting on Warren to come back and automatically be the player he was?

FWIW, the Patriots have never had Bodden AND McCourty on the field at the same time.