A rare opportunity

[IcyPatriot]

I like my football the way I like sex ...

better from the outside no need to see what is going from the inside.

 

[Ring 6]

Truth. We're also going to watch Revis more and appreciate him better.

Or see how ridiculously much holding he gets away with. Probably both.

 

[Ring 6]

Just what we need. More "analysis" by the "experts" around here.

Thats the beauty of a forum like this. You aren't forced to read anything. You control what you click.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Or see how ridiculously much holding he gets away with. Probably both.

I think that one obvious reveal given the wider field of view will be how much uncalled 5 yards after scrimmage contact there is.

I always (foolishly, I know) thought that HDTV with its better resolution and wider screen aspect would show more of the DBs. Instead, the camera still shows 5-8 yards behind the QB of nothingness instead of shifting the coverage downfield. Can't have the QB too far off the center of the screen I guess.

 

[TheComeback]

Guys like Mike Lombardi and Matt Bowen among others have been writing for the last week or so about the pitfalls of many fans belief that the All 22 will finally give them the means to legitimately critique plays and players. It takes a while, sometimes a couple of years for guys at their level to grasp what they are seeing on that film to the point they can truly break it down. And even then their breakdowns remain limited because they don't know the play call or the assignments or the adjustments. Their critique is based on who appeared to do what absent information about who was supposed to do what. And hereabouts, in the land of the complex offense and multiple (and disguised) defensive schemes that information will remain about as valid as what we've always had...

I still don't understand what the big fear is here. These are professional athletes and coaches who get paid the big bucks to do what they do. If they can't brush off criticism from ignorant fans, they probably shouldn't be in the NFL.

As it stands, fans are happy to criticize their team for every perceived mistake anyway.

 

[goheels22002]

This all 22 is going to kill this board after losses people are going to rip every tiny detail and it's going to make this place hell

No it's not. Hell is reading the analysis of homers on here who watched the game while pounding down 8 Heinies when the only footage we got was the ball sailing through the air or slo-mo replays of disputed plays with Jon Gruden making macho double entendres.

Seeing all 22 guys will be great. If you haven't already read it, get "Take Your Eye Off The Ball" by Pat Kirwan. The all all-22 footage will elevate the quality of the discourse here.

Gotta run. Down to my last Heinie.

 

[Off The Grid]

I always (foolishly, I know) thought that HDTV with its better resolution and wider screen aspect would show more of the DBs.

Instead, the camera still shows 5-8 yards behind the QB of nothingness instead of shifting the coverage downfield.

Try pivoting the TV 45 Degrees to the side.

 

[Off The Grid]

The all all-22 footage will elevate the quality of the discourse here.

Exactly!!

22 Tape isn't going to create the Monday Morning QuarterBack.

That subspecies goes back thousands of years, Gentlemen, well before the invention of FootBall.

We Students of the Game will gain much...while continuing to ignore the Bleaters.

 

[lurker1965]

What needs to be shown in bold flashing red letters is this:

This shows what players did, not what they were supposed to do according to the play call.

I can't make it flash.

 

[Ivan]

Exactly!!

22 Tape isn't going to create the Monday Morning QuarterBack.

That subspecies goes back thousands of years, Gentlemen, well before the invention of FootBall.

We Students of the Game will gain much...while continuing to ignore the Bleaters.

I think it's great for studying football, what I don't agree with is the idea that those who watch it thereby become "experts."

 

[TruthSeeker]

4. I have to admit I am a bit surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for this idea, flawed though it be. I would have thought there would be many here who would have flocked to the idea, especially people who could have improved on the concept. I can only conclude that the great majority here would rather make their "judgments" in the dark, or prefer to "play" alone. Well never mind I guess. It was just a thought

'Tis easier to complain about the darkness than to light a candle.

 

[jmt57]

Let me make a few things clear about this proposal:

1. The object was to provide a more detailed and more definitive assessment of Pats games than we've had before for the greater enjoyment of the fans of this board. Definitive simply because we'd have more information than before.

2. OF COURSE this would be simply an amateur's offerings, since we still wouldn't know critical data like the play called and the LOS adjustments on both sides of the ball. THAT'S NOT THE POINT - The point was to provide something better than we've had in the past

3. What I found most ironic was the criticism that as just fans we aren't qualified to make judgments on the success or failure of player on a particular play. Isn't THAT what we do here on a daily basis? Isn't that the PURPOSE of this board in the first place? The only difference is that NOW we'd make those speculative judgments with more information. It goes without saying that anything we put together would be amateur "uninformed" judgments, but they'd be LESS uninformed than before!

4. I have to admit I am a bit surprised by the lack of enthusiasm for this idea, flawed though it be. I would have thought there would be many here who would have flocked to the idea, especially people who could have improved on the concept. I can only conclude that the great majority here would rather make their "judgments" in the dark, or prefer to "play" alone. Well never mind I guess. It was just a thought

I would not let the 'lack of enthusiasm' deter you for one moment. That's probably due primarily to our being in the deadest part of the NFL year, post-draft and pre-training camp.

As someone else said earlier most of us already have a good idea who is capable of intelligent objective analysis worth reading and whose is not - and for those that don't already know that, it will become immediately apparent after just a very few games.

I am very much looking forward to the reviews from several of the forum members here, and would highly encourage any of you that wish to participate to do so. Personally I think I will review the games, keep most of my thoughts to myself, and compare what I saw to what others see - at least initially while I try and get a better grasp of an entire game from the all-22 angle.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I would not let the 'lack of enthusiasm' deter you for one moment. That's probably due primarily to our being in the deadest part of the NFL year, post-draft and pre-training camp.

As someone else said earlier most of us already have a good idea who is capable of intelligent objective analysis worth reading and whose is not - and for those that don't already know that, it will become immediately apparent after just a very few games.

I am very much looking forward to the reviews from several of the forum members here, and would highly encourage any of you that wish to participate to do so. Personally I think I will review the games, keep most of my thoughts to myself, and compare what I saw to what others see - at least initially while I try and get a better grasp of an entire game from the all-22 angle.

Let me second the recommendation that we less knowledgeable fans read "Take Your Eye Off The Ball" by Pat Kirwan. Reading the section on all the pass pattern permutations I felt like Ocho on the LOS pre-snap.

And Ken, this IS the football doldrums time. Enthusiasm will build. Even I a shall we say "thrifty" Scot will buy the All 22 even to just check it out. Don't know if I will devote the study needed to become a reviewer worth opining but on second thought, that's never stopped me previously

 

[BradyFTW!]

Let me second the recommendation that we less knowledgeable fans read "Take Your Eye Off The Ball" by Pat Kirwan. Reading the section on all the pass pattern permutations I felt like Ocho on the LOS pre-snap.

And Ken, this IS the football doldrums time. Enthusiasm will build. Even I a shall we say "thrifty" Scot will buy the All 22 even to just check it out. Don't know if I will devote the study needed to become a reviewer worth opining but on second thought, that's never stopped me previously

That, pretty much. I bought it, but I don't trust my ability to analyze what I'm seeing to the point that I would be comfortable drawing conclusions from it, let alone making those conclusions part of some compendium of work. Maybe in a few years when I'm more familiar/confident in the whole process.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

That, pretty much. I bought it, but I don't trust my ability to analyze what I'm seeing to the point that I would be comfortable drawing conclusions from it, let alone making those conclusions part of some compendium of work. Maybe in a few years when I'm more familiar/confident in the whole process.

If we non-coaches ever start posting analyses we'll just need a thick skin when our obvious (but not to us) initial analysis, say of coverage, gets picked apart. I won't take it personally, but I just may change my sig to "GFY".

 

[Kontradiction]

To me, the most interesting thing about this view would be what disguises opposing defenses give Brady, and the pre-snap adjustments that he makes accordingly. That's what I would watch for. Alas, when I was a student, I had the time to do this and break it down for myself but probably couldn't see spending the money on it. Now that I work full time, I could see spending the money on it but wouldn't have the time. Such is life.

 

[BradyFTW!]

To me, the most interesting thing about this view would be what disguises opposing defenses give Brady, and the pre-snap adjustments that he makes accordingly. That's what I would watch for. Alas, when I was a student, I had the time to do this and break it down for myself but probably couldn't see spending the money on it. Now that I work full time, I could see spending the money on it but wouldn't have the time. Such is life.

I'll probably just take it out of my Patsfans time. Which, crazily enough, will probably do the trick.

 

[patfanken]

I appreciate the late spurt of positive responses. Let me make a couple of remarks

1. I don't understand people who would look upon this as anything but what it is. Its different people's OPINIONS about what they saw. Same as always. Only now that "opinion" will be based on MORE information than we've had before. Because we will never have ALL the facts, it will still be just an opinion, just as before. I don't know why anyone could extrapolate that into something that will "destroy the board"

2. All I would do is try to organize the effort so the general body of the board will get as much information as possible. Also breaking down a game properly for 22 positions is a mind numbing task, and very time consuming. It just makes sense to split the task up into small, more digestible pieces.

3. By organizing, we would also speed up the task and be able to "publish" the findings faster.

4. There are more than enough people who are already doing this on a smaller scale and doing it rather well. There are plenty more who have the football knowledge to make good assessments. And finally there is certainly NO shortage of people with opinions. So among the 2 or 3 thousand members we SHOULD be able to find enough people to do an adequate job, without over working any one person. Hell Ian should pay for this kind of service. Really Ian, I'd work cheap.

It certainly wouldn't be worse than PFF.

 

[neuronet]

I love this idea. I wish I was knowledgeable enough about the game to actually contribute, but I will likely just be a leech.

People have pointed out some caveats as if they are serious objections: yes, we will still not have total information, but we will have more information. Some of you like to see the glass as 1/4 empty rather than 3/4 full.

 

[TheComeback]

I never played the game- everything I know is just from reading about football, watching it on TV, and playing pick-up every now and then. I have no idea how much time I'll have this fall when school starts again, either.

That said, I think it's a great idea and I'd be willing to contribute what I can. I was really excited when they announced the all-22, especially because of this board. I'm surprised it hasn't made a bigger splash.