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27 On Defense - 2 Likely To Go

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Which players do you HAVE TO HAVE?

    I expect a couple of these players to be cut. Also, a DL TBD could certainly make this roster.

    DEFENSE (27)
    5 DE Jones, Ninkovich, Buchanan. Bequette, Francis
    5 DT Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Cunningham, Forsten
    5 LB Mayo, Hightower, Spikes, Collins, Fletcher
    5 CB Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Dowling, Ryan
    5 S McCourty, Wilson, Wilson, Gregory, Harmon
    2 ST Cole, Beauharnais
     
  2. belichick010405

    belichick010405 Closed Acccount

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    I have Cole and Fletcher gone bringing the defense to 25 guys with 25 offensive players on the 53-man roster. This would leave the space for Gost, Mesko, and Aiken.
     
  3. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think we all hope that D.Fletcher makes it. That could help to solve those defensive matchup problems that we've seen lately vs the RB/TE in terms of a better coverage LB.

    Cunningam would be another who's on the bubble--although his versatility should help his cause out a bit.

    Gregory should be able to make the cut for another year, although that's probably not set in stone either.

    And of course, the situation of Dennard no longer makes him a lock anymore either, so that's something to keep an eye on.

    I'm guessing 24 on offense, and 26 on defense myself--although it's pretty early yet, and it would also depend on where you'd list M.Slater.
     
  4. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    'Have to have' are bolded above. Based on past history I'll put Dowling in a cautiously optimistic 'want to have' rather than 'have to have'. Same goes for Adrian Wilson, I'm counting on him having enough left in the tank to be very productive. Tommy Kelly and Armond Armstead are two more that I would place in the 'counting on/hopeful' category rather than the 'have to have' group.



    From the 26 on defense thread, I will also answer these questions:


    2) Who would you kick off the island?
    -- If I have to pick one it is Cunningham. Even though Gregory was a letdown and consideration, I still want him on the roster as a backup based on the number of injuries in the past few years in the defensive backfield


    3) I think that these are our 26 best players on offense. How about you?
    -- Add Koutouvides as a ST and 7th LB
    -- Cole is a good ST, but he may have trouble sticking this year
    -- Don't be surprised if Grissom or Vellano makes the team at DT
     
  5. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's my defensive projection:

    DE (6): Jones, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Francis, Bequette, Buchanan
    DT (4): Wilfork, Kelly, Armstead, Grissom
    LB (5): Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Fletcher, Collins
    CB (6): Talib, Dennard, Arrington, Dowling, Ryan, Cole
    S (4): McCourty, A. Wilson, T. Wilson, Harmon

    -I think 6 DE is a little excessive. I'd have everyone besides Jones and Ninkovich compete for three spots, but I'm projecting 6 DE right now because it's just too close to call and I don't believe in predicting which players will break out in camp.
    -This team seriously needs to sign a veteran DT, preferably a big guy who can back up Wilfork on the nose (I know, 4-3, but there's still a huge DT and a penetrating one). Because of that need, I have placed the only other NT currently signed with the Patriots on my 53 projection: the UDFA Cory Grissom.
    -5 LB is a bit thin, but I think it's fine with Adrian Wilson getting some plays at coverage LB. I'd prefer to give that sixth DE's spot to the best of Beauharnais, Edds, Tarpinian, Koutouvides, Rivera.
    -Barring off the field issues, every defensive back on my projection except for Cole WILL make the roster. The secondary is pretty much set. I prefer a ST only defensive back to Gregory, though--either Ebner or Cole. I gave the spot to Cole because he's the better special teamer so far.
     
  6. Armchair Quarterback

    Armchair Quarterback In the Starting Line-Up

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    Cunningham and Cole if they're already carrying 10 DB. Maybe Bequette.
     
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cunningham has bulked up. If you consider him a DT, you are not unbalanced with 5 DT's and 5 DE's. I have Forston over Grissom. I am hoping for a DE signing.

    Cole over Gregory is fine as long as Belichick has confidence in his safeties. IMHO, Cole is our #2 best special teamer.

     
  8. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    #12 Jersey

    DE (4)
    Jones
    Cunningham
    Bequette
    Buchanan

    DT (4)
    Wilfork
    Kelly
    Armstead
    Francis/Fortson

    OLB (3)
    Hightower
    Ninkovich
    Collins

    ILB (4)
    Mayo
    Spikes
    Fletcher (ST)
    Beauharnias

    CB (6)
    Talib
    Dennard
    Dowling
    Arrington (ST)
    Ryan
    Cole (ST)

    SAF (5)
    McCourty
    A Wilson
    T Wilson (ST)
    Gregory (ST)
    Harmon (ST)

    I'm keeping 26; based on the fact that all of the integral special team players with the exception of Slater being in these positional groupings.

    Can't really decide between Francis or Fortson. I could see a scenario where BB decides to use the players like Armstead, Cunningham and Francis at the three technique full time to be more aggressive. In that case I'd keep Francis because you'd have Wilfork and Kelly as your one techniques. If he decides to use Wilfork at the one and Kelly at the three full time I'd keep Fortson.

    Ebner although many view him as a key special teams player I actually felt he was underwhelming last season so I kept Gregory who's a solid safety and is actually a very good special teams player himself.

    Beauharnias and Fletcher make the cut over Rivera and Koutouvides because of their ability to contribute on special teams and on defense.

    Anyone who leave Cole off their rosters obviously didn't watch special teams last year, because in my opinion he made almost as big of an impact as Slater without nearly the recognition. He also adds depth as a slot CB.
     
  9. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    Very true; I actually see a possibility of the depth chart looking like this,

    LE/OLB- Ninkovich, Collins, Buchanan
    3DT- Armstead, Cunningham, Francis
    1DT- Wilfork, Kelly
    RE- Jones, Bequette

    I just think BB is really trying to match up quicker, smaller, more agile players against the right tackle and guards who are generally heavier less athletic linemen.

    I could be way off obviously but just based on some of the stuff I've read in the media and other forums over off season.

    You seem to know your football better than most, what do you think?
     
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you for the compliment, but there are many here who are better at the x's and o's than I am. Andy and Fencer come to mind. You actually need depth charts in several situations, some 4-3, some 3-4, some on 1st down, passing down and short yardage.

    I do have a few thoughts.

    DEFENSIVE TACKLE
    We lacked an inside pass rush last year. The inside should be improved with the addition of Armstead, the addition of Kelly and a bulked up Cunningham.

    You like Francis inside over Forston. I greatly prefer Forston inside. I see him developing into a run-stopper and short yardage defender, good roles for the #5 DT.

    DEFENSIVE END
    Unless Collins has immediate impact, I would prefer to add Abraham or another DE. This group needs help. We're OK on 3rd down, but not on first. This is our outside pass-rush and we will rely on Jones, unless Collins steps up. The future looks good, but it may take time for Collins and Buchanan to develop.

    I hope that Bequette can prove us wrong. We need him to be a contributor. Some like what Francis did as a DE when he was in there last year.

    LINEBACKER PASS COVERAGE
    I thought I would add that this was another major lack last year (along with the lack of an inside pass-rush). We have addressed this with bringing back Fletcher and through the signing of Wilson who can play that role.

    BOTTOM LINE
    If Francis and Bequette can't contribute as DE's, then we need to add a veteran DE. For many of us, one of the deficiencies in this off-season was the lack of an addition at DE (beyond a 7th rounder). IMHO, Belichick did an incredibly good job in improving almost every aspect of the defense. A veteran DE would have added to the improvement.


     
  11. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    I really only like Francis inside more than Fortson if we went with a DE type at the three technique the majority of the time. And even then it's more about Wilfork not coming off the field enough to justify having Kelly and Fortson behind him.

    All your points are great overall, my only thought is pertaining to coverage LB. I think Adrian Wilson will contribute greatly to that aspect of the defense.

    I'd like to see them determine quickly what they have at DE and if its a concern like you said go get a DE like Abraham.
     
  12. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The cherry on top of this defensive roster would be John Abraham. His signing would give us a great 3rd DE and push someone like Bequette or Cunningham off the roster.

    BTW, what is up with these four FAs? We all know Lloyd is weird, but they all can be key contributers on good teams.

    WR Brandon Lloyd
    CB Sheldon Brown
    DE John Abraham
    DT Richard Seymour
     
  13. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Often older veterans wait for the 2-a-days to be over before they sign. They really do better without the early camp.

     
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. I would vote Francis off the island for Abraham in a heartbeat.

     
  15. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    I think Seymour wants to be paid like a 26 year old version of himself so teams aren't interested. Brown has been on a heavy decline and some have called him a locker room cancer in the media over the years.

    Abraham I think just wants to take the Brian Waters approach and sign as late into the preseason as possible because he is older and doesn't want to over extend himself.
     
  16. Brady6

    Brady6 Pro Bowl Player

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    I was disappointed that I heard no mention of Francis bulking up this offseason. I was really hoping he'd make the most of his first NFL offseason and add enough weight that he could be used primarily as a defensive tackle the way he was at Rutgers.

    Jones and Cunningham both were recognized for their offseason workouts, Bequette was reported to have spent a lot of time with Ninkovich working on his game.

    I would of expect a UDFA would of been doing these things to.
     
  17. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, wouldn't Cole's spot potentially be filled by a guy like Logan Ryan?

    I mean, as a 3rd round pick this is likely his best chance at seeing the field, at least initially anyway.

    I know that ST only players are always important on our teams every year and that'll never change with BB at the helm, but I'd hate to be stuck with players such as Cole and White in big time, game of the year settings again where they actually see the field.

    I'm kind of hoping that some of these draft picks can help to take over that lack of depth and that they can actually contribute on some level if needed.
     
  18. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's interject some objective honesty here for a sec...NO ONE actually has a dyam clue what this roster is going to look like in a week...never mind the start of the season.
     

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