PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[Lagaffe_07]

Brady looked pretty average in 2019 with bad weapons and a lot of people thought he was spent and then the next year looked great with the Bucs. WHy do you think that was?

and? What’s your point?

Mac isn’t playing with bad weapons, just averages one.

 

[jdlboot14]

Unfortunately, we aren't getting this one this year. And if you play the odds, it could be years or decades before we do.

There are two ways to have a productive offense in today's NFL. Either you have an elite QB. Or you have a good enough QB that you surround with elite or above average talent. Belichick has done neither with this offense. I think if Jones and Tua traded offenses last night, the Patriots would have won possibly by double digits.

You got that completely backwards. You're saying Tua is elite and could have scored 30+ behind our OL?
And that Mac couldn't have succeeded with MIA's OL and with Waddle & Hill & Mostert? Come on, man!

Do you remember all the hate Tua got 2 years ago? Talks of being a bust? Then he got McDaniel and guys like Tyreek, and now look...
Surprise Surprise - Tua and Mac are very similar QB's.

 

[sb1]

Mac threw for three TDs and over 300 yards while being pressured 21-28 times (depending on which stat service you use) on 54 throws. And of course this from Sunday night:



This Mac needs a clean pocket to make good throws is a narrative that isn’t supported by the facts.

Jones has shown improvement throwing off platform. That's one thing I wanted to see a year ago but... well you know.

LIke I said yesterday right now he is what the scouts said he would be. Most polished in his draft class, high floor, low ceiling. We can win with a guy like that but the OT situation won't help make that happen.

 

[Rob0729]

Jones has shown improvement throwing off platform. That's one thing I wanted to see a year ago but... well you know.

LIke I said yesterday right now he is what the scouts said he would be. Most polished in his draft class, high floor, low ceiling. We can win with a guy like that but the OT situation won't help make that happen.

We really don't know if he has a low ceiling. I don't think he has a really high ceiling, but his ceiling could be higher than the scouts thought. Belichick just keeps giving him a crap sandwich to work with.

His ceiling could be a below average starter who will bounce around the league for the next ten years. But we still haven't had an opportunity to see it.

Forget all these "if he had what Tua had to work with, he would be...". Let's give him what Zach Wilson has to work with. Wilson has a very good/potentially great WR with several other decent secondary WRs and a great RB and a mediocre, but better o-line than the Pats currently have. I think the Jets had enough going for them on offense to give at least a fairly accurate evaluation of a QB's talent.

 

[mike_usagisan]

We really don't know if he has a low ceiling. I don't think he has a really high ceiling, but his ceiling could be higher than the scouts thought. Belichick just keeps giving him a crap sandwich to work with.

His ceiling could be a below average starter who will bounce around the league for the next ten years. But we still haven't had an opportunity to see it.

Forget all these "if he had what Tua had to work with, he would be...". Let's give him what Zach Wilson has to work with. Wilson has a very good/potentially great WR with several other decent secondary WRs and a great RB and a mediocre, but better o-line than the Pats currently have. I think the Jets had enough going for them on offense to give at least a fairly accurate evaluation of a QB's talent.

Right now we really need to see what Boutte and Douglas bring to the table because there aren't a lot of other WRs out there for us to get until the offseason.

 

[jdlboot14]

Bottom line. the Patriots protect players so much in the preseason, and they have started 2-2 or worse for 6 of the last 7 years.
They tinker with the OL, they platoon players a lot, figuring out their guys and their best groupings and schemes.
In the Brady years, there was enough to still win a few early though. But this year:
- injuries have been a major factor in TC (mainly OL & WR)
- we face 3 top-5 teams in the first 4 weeks. (PHI, MIA, DAL)
- and 3 of the top Defenses in the first 4 weeks. (PHI, NYJ, DAL)

We'll be lucky to start 1-3... just like the last 3 years.
But after that, assuming our offense figures it out, and defense keeps improving, we should be able to find a string of wins.
I think we could still go 6-2 over the middle 8 games. Keep hope alive!

 

[cmasspatsfan]

You got that completely backwards. You're saying Tua is elite and could have scored 30+ behind our OL?
And that Mac couldn't have succeeded with MIA's OL and with Waddle & Hill & Mostert? Come on, man!

Do you remember all the hate Tua got 2 years ago? Talks of being a bust? Then he got McDaniel and guys like Tyreek, and now look...
Surprise Surprise - Tua and Mac are very similar QB's.

He's saying if Mac had Miami's line and receiver's, he'd win the game.

 

[Rob0729]

Right now we really need to see what Boutte and Douglas bring to the table because there aren't a lot of other WRs out there for us to get until the offseason.

Well, it would be good not to make one a healthy scratch and benching the other for fumbling the football.

But if Jerry Jeudy continues to not being used by the Broncos (three catches on five targets for 25 yards in two games), he could be on the trading block. Marvin Mims seems to have replaced him.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Well, it would be good not to make one a healthy scratch and benching the other for fumbling the football.

But if Jerry Jeudy continues to not being used by the Broncos (three catches on five targets for 25 yards in two games), he could be on the trading block. Marvin Mims seems to have replaced him.

Is Jeudy really an improvement, or are we hoping he'll pick up from his college days with Mac?

 

[jdlboot14]

Well, it would be good not to make one a healthy scratch and benching the other for fumbling the football.

But if Jerry Jeudy continues to not being used by the Broncos (three catches on five targets for 25 yards in two games), he could be on the trading block. Marvin Mims seems to have replaced him.

wouldn't that be something! I think it's obvious (for the 4th year in a row) that we need to do something with better WR's.
JSS is colossal mistake. If TT can't come back and really provide something, then we need a GUY.

Question - if they cut JSS, how much $ are they on the hook for this year?

 

[mike_usagisan]

wouldn't that be something! I think it's obvious (for the 4th year in a row) that we need to do something with better WR's.
JSS is colossal mistake. If TT can't come back and really provide something, then we need a GUY.

Question - if they cut JSS, how much $ are they on the hook for this year?

JuJu Smith-Schuster signed a 3 year, $25,500,000 contract with the New England Patriots, including a $7,900,000 signing bonus, $16,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $8,500,000. But I don't know how much is on the hook if he's cut after two games.

 

[Rob0729]

Is Jeudy really an improvement, or are we hoping he'll pick up from his college days with Mac?

As bad as the Broncos offense was last year, he had 972 yards and six TDs (14.5 YPC). And his rookie year, he had 865 yards and 3 TDs (16.5 YPC) with Drew Lock throwing to him. His second year was injury plagued. He has been pretty product with no QBs.

As crazy as it sounds, right now (or at least last year) I think Mac Jones may be a better QB than Russell Wilson.

 

[Wozzy]

You spent all off season chastizing everyone who critcized the team for not securing offensive talent. Predictably they are losing AGAIN because the offense is inept. Now you are posting Confucius quotes about how talent isn't the problem, talent that is unable to execute is. Guess what.... good talent is better at execution. That's the point.

Also please on the talent thing. The 2014 and 2016 teams were stacked to the gills on both sides of the ball.

They had 3 WR's healthy last game and one offensive lineman who was an original starter on the depth chart... if you can predict who will get injured this Sunday, let us all know in advance.

Also when this team gets fully healthy and starts executing with no new "talent" added, be sure to come back here and tell us how you knew it all along.... like 2014, 2016 and 2018.

 

[Wozzy]

As crazy as it sounds, right now (or at least last year) I think Mac Jones may be a better QB than Russell Wilson.

That's not crazy, Sean Payton tried to trade ahead of us to take Mac in the draft.

 

[sb1]

wouldn't that be something! I think it's obvious (for the 4th year in a row) that we need to do something with better WR's.
JSS is colossal mistake. If TT can't come back and really provide something, then we need a GUY.

Question - if they cut JSS, how much $ are they on the hook for this year?

Much more likely they IR him than cut him outright imo

 

[Rob0729]

That's not crazy, Sean Payton tried to trade ahead of us to take Mac in the draft.

And the word out of Denver is that Payton is ready to move on from Wilson after this season. If the Pats trade Jones in the offseason, wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to Denver.

 

[sb1]

And the word out of Denver is that Payton is ready to move on from Wilson after this season. If the Pats trade Jones in the offseason, wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to Denver.

I'd want their 2024 first rounder if that happens. Pats must take a QB to replace Jones and if Denver sucks they'll be in position for a good one.

 

[Rob0729]

I'd want their 2024 first rounder if that happens. Pats must take a QB to replace Jones and if Denver sucks they'll be in position for a good one.

I don't think the Pats are going to trade Jones, but right now there are no guarantees anyone will be back including Belichick.

 

[sb1]

I don't think the Pats are going to trade Jones, but right now there are no guarantees anyone will be back including Belichick.

Agreed. Just saying if they consider trading him they need to get someone to replace Jones. Cunningham and Zappe are not viable replacements for Jones. If it's a drafted high ceiling prospect then great.

 

[State]

Why are more and more people sounding like Captain Stone?

Now the bright pink elephant in the room is the mockery of an OL that BB has assembled. During draft night did we not collectively all AGREE that OT, in particular LEFT TACKLE was a huge need? What did BB do? Of course spend ALL his top chips on the defense! And this after signing no offensive tackle of note in free agency when we had the most free cap space of all NFL teams save 4. What did you think would happen? BB is a DISGRACE as a GM and this predictable dilemma is of his own making.