PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[Wozzy]

And the word out of Denver is that Payton is ready to move on from Wilson after this season. If the Pats trade Jones in the offseason, wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to Denver.

They won’t.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Not anti-Mac; however, this is concerning in general.

A very TELLING statistic! This offense just has no comeback ability under Mac Jones. Either the defense pitches a near shutout or we end up losing. That's not called a winning offense!

 

[archstanton543]

A very TELLING statistic! This offense just has no comeback ability under Mac Jones. Either the defense pitches a near shutout or we end up losing. That's not called a winning offense!

They're also 0-12 when opponents score 25 points or more when Hunter Henry plays. Or Rhomandre Stevenson plays. Or Brendan Schooler plays.

See how that works?

 

[VJCPatriot]

The OL is an issue but Jones is not playing well enough.

The issue isn’t that Mac Jones isn’t good enough (generally). The issue is that Jones is particularly and consistently bad under certain circumstances.

Moving in the pocket, when blitzed, throwing intermediate passes outside the hashes, in critical game situations, when in-game pressure strikes. I know it’s subjective speculation but he really seems to be a sensitive guy and a front runner; when things are going well, he looks good. When adversity strikes he loses his edge and becomes a shell of himself.

Under perfect circumstances, with a clean pocket, when playing from ahead, when the game is comfortable, he’s a very accurate passer. Under any adversity, he falls apart, mentally and mechanically. And that’s ignoring his many physical limitations (which can be overcome but are still present).

You found the perfect wording there. Mac Jones is a "front runner". Give him the ideal conditions and he can cook together a decent game. Give him any kind of adversity and he gets the "deer in headlights" look and just fails to make those crucial passes that the team needs to win.

Look when you give him the Tide's overpowered talent compared to everyone else in college, he can crush it, we've seen that happen. But when working with a talent deficit on offense, like we have right now, there's no way he's the right QB for the Patriots, not with these weapons and this OL.

It's only 2 games into the new season but Mac Jones has put up a grand total of 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively. It doesn't look like he has what it takes to work from behind. He can only succeed when thinks work out perfectly for him. Maybe it's time for the Patriots to start considering other options at QB because this kid doesn't look like he has what it takes to "elevate" the other players around him. And isn't that what you want from a leader, a true franchise Quarterback? Whatever he is, Mac Jones simply is NOT that right now.

 

[Toofy]

He's saying if Mac had Miami's line and receiver's, he'd win the game.

100% agree and that too by 2 scores.

 

[borg]

And the word out of Denver is that Payton is ready to move on from Wilson after this season. If the Pats trade Jones in the offseason, wouldn't be surprised if he was traded to Denver.

With the 10% distance added-altitude bonus, Peyton might consider allowing Mac to attempt a 45 yd Hail Mary when the 4th quarter rally inevitably falls short.

 

[VJCPatriot]

They're also 0-12 when opponents score 25 points or more when Hunter Henry plays. Or Rhomandre Stevenson plays. Or Brendan Schooler plays.

See how that works?

So is the waterboy. But the Patriots waterboy doesn't sling all the passes and is in charge of executing the entire offense is he? Come on you can do better than that. But I'll admit that the Mac Jones apologists are getting creative.

 

[Toofy]

A very TELLING statistic! This offense just has no comeback ability under Mac Jones. Either the defense pitches a near shutout or we end up losing. That's not called a winning offense!

That's because we have not invested in offense either in stud wide receivers or stud offensive linemen. More whiffs than wins. Result is pretty telling.

Josh Allen become what he is now... after he got diggs. Same with hurts . What about Goff ? How does purdy look good ? Why did mahomes lose to lions when there is no Kelce ?

You need at least 1 safety valve . We used to have that in Gronk and Edelman and white. sadly none exist today.

Meyers was the closest followed by Henry. We are missing the clutch 3rd down completions of Meyers.

It's not on Mac. It's on talent and it's on Bill . We lucked again on Mac. If we decide to go the draft route we might end up in cardinals territory.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

The Dolphins drafted Waddle and went out and got T. Hill because they knew the likes of D. Parker and M. Geiski weren’t good enough to be part of an élite offence.

We went out and got Parker and Geiski. Shows the difference in the teams skill positions and offensive outlook.

They only got Waddle and Hill cause they had a top-3 pick as draft capital.

 

[Sciz]

They only got Waddle and Hill cause they had a top-3 pick as draft capital.

And that was Bill O’Brien’s fault

 

[VJCPatriot]

100% agree and that too by 2 scores.

So the argument is that if Mac Jones had the entire Miami Dolphins offense and Tua had the entire Patriots offense, Mac Jones would win the game? What a bizarro scenario. That's like saying if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!

So what? We're dealing with reality here. We're stuck with Mac Jones and we're stuck with the offensive talent that BB selected. And it ain't good. In fact it stinks pretty bad for us to be fantasizing about an entire offense transplant just to "justify" the poor performances of one Mac "popgun arm" Jones. The Patriots offense is in trouble and Mac Jones 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively ain't gonna cut it if you want to win football games in the NFL!

 

[Triumph]

So is the waterboy. But the Patriots waterboy doesn't sling all the passes and is in charge of executing the entire offense is he? Come on you can do better than that. But I'll admit that the Mac Jones apologists are getting creative.

They cant blame BOB yet, but his day is near.

 

[Sam Bam Cunningham]

I am not anti Mac at all. I am impressed by his optimism, accuracy on short passes and his ability to bond with his team mates.
The big question for every Pats fans that will come up is "Have we seen enough to pay MAC franchise QB level dollars to extend him in 2024 and do we want to place the franchise's offense in his hands rather than going in a different direction next year?"
I realize we still have a whole season to collect more data.
But so far there are some huge red flags that make me think he is not the guy you want to put all your chips on:

1. Inability to make the necessary plays when the game is on the line
2. Lack of clutch track record so far in NFL
3. Arm strength- lack of zip on balls for slants. See the difference between Tua and Mac on slants and throws that require zip
4. Lack of arm strength on deep outs...throws lollipops with too much air under them
5. Seems awkward on scrambles, his slides always seem to be 2 yards short of first down
6. Pocket presence, does not seem to have that 6th sense about getting away from pressure or stepping up in pocket

That being said, he has been dealt a crappy hand by Bill including, Matt Patricia, awful OL and mediocre WRs.
However despite the crappy hand, if I had to make a decision right now, I would definitely say do not extend him.

 

[Triumph]

So the argument is that if Mac Jones had the entire Miami Dolphins offense and Tua had the entire Patriots offense, Mac Jones would win the game? What a bizarro scenario. That's like saying if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle!

So what? We're dealing with reality here. We're stuck with Mac Jones and we're stuck with the offensive talent that BB selected. And it ain't good. In fact it stinks pretty bad for us to be fantasizing about an entire offense transplant just to "justify" the poor performances of one Mac "popgun arm" Jones. The Patriots offense is in trouble and Mac Jones 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively ain't gonna cut it if you want to win football games in the NFL!

He is a Dink and Dunker.

A Game Manager where safe checkdown throws are his strength. If Sack Wilson outduels him will it be curtains for Corky?

 

[archstanton543]

So is the waterboy. But the Patriots waterboy doesn't sling all the passes and is in charge of executing the entire offense is he? Come on you can do better than that. But I'll admit that the Mac Jones apologists are getting creative.

I didn't name the waterboy. The guys I listed are on the sane team and played in the same games. Football is a team sport. This shouldn't be news to you. And looking at pure W's and L's can make anyone look bad. We're all those losses due to bad QB play by Mac? I doubt it.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

You found the perfect wording there. Mac Jones is a "front runner". Give him the ideal conditions and he can cook together a decent game. Give him any kind of adversity and he gets the "deer in headlights" look and just fails to make those crucial passes that the team needs to win.

Look when you give him the Tide's overpowered talent compared to everyone else in college, he can crush it, we've seen that happen. But when working with a talent deficit on offense, like we have right now, there's no way he's the right QB for the Patriots, not with these weapons and this OL.

It's only 2 games into the new season but Mac Jones has put up a grand total of 5.8 YPA and 5.5 YPA respectively. It doesn't look like has what it takes to work from behind. He can only succeed when thinks work out perfectly for him. Maybe it's time for the Patriots to start considering other options at QB because this kid doesn't look like he has what it takes to "elevate" the other players around him. And isn't that what you want from a leader, a true franchise Quarterback? Whatever he is, Mac Jones simply is NOT that right now.

Deer in the headlights? Didn't he make both games close after falling behind? They came up short, but not all on him but there was no deer in the headlights look, you're just making stuff up and it's embarrassing.

 

[State]

Right now we really need to see what Boutte and Douglas bring to the table because there aren't a lot of other WRs out there for us to get until the offseason.

Don’t forget Reagor. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I’m surprised they didn’t play him against the Phins. We need outside speed. Threaten vertically.

The Jets have that with their second year stud WR from Ohio State, Garrett Wilson.

 

[Kasmir]

The OL is an issue but Jones is not playing well enough.

The issue isn’t that Mac Jones isn’t good enough (generally). The issue is that Jones is particularly and consistently bad under certain circumstances.

Moving in the pocket, when blitzed, throwing intermediate passes outside the hashes, in critical game situations, when in-game pressure strikes. I know it’s subjective speculation but he really seems to be a sensitive guy and a front runner; when things are going well, he looks good. When adversity strikes he loses his edge and becomes a shell of himself.

Under perfect circumstances, with a clean pocket, when playing from ahead, when the game is comfortable, he’s a very accurate passer. Under any adversity, he falls apart, mentally and mechanically. And that’s ignoring his many physical limitations (which can be overcome but are still present).

After last year, I was one of those questioning Mac's composure under pressure.

So far this year, he looks vastly better under pressure and is making plays "off platform" that he has never done before (at least as a Patriot).

He's also showing that he really does have 4.7-ish speed and has started to use it. His pocket presence is also much improved over last year.

Despite the losses and the offense's struggles, I'm really encouraged about Mac's prospects. The Club Corky attacks on him this season seem to me to be based largely on prejudice and are ignoring the improvement in his play.

 

[VJCPatriot]

They cant blame BOB yet, but his day is near.

Seriously; They're going to blame everyone else first but the people who are wetting the bed - BB and his boy wonder Mac Jones. BB is in charge of buying the groceries and Mac is in charge of executing the gameplan on the field. And they both have come up far SHORT of what's needed to win football games!

But the parade of excuses is going to continue until eventually someone is traded away or someone is fired. The pandering and excuse making is relentless! In the end the results TRUMP excuses. The bottom line is what really matters.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

5. Seems awkward on scrambles, his slides always seem to be 2 yards short of first down
6. Pocket presence, does not seem to have that 6th sense about getting away from pressure or stepping up in pocket

No to both those. He did a great job of moving around Sunday and throwing on the run and how many times has he run and stopped short of the first down?