2015 Draft Prospect Thread

[HawaiianPatsfan]

PS.

The reason I think that he doesn't end up with any draft value is what happened with Edelman when he first re-signed on a one year prove it deal. It was pretty clear that the league didn't view him that highly and that probably means they're not going to value a similar player that high either. Add on top of that the fact that they'll be paying a $5m average annual salary then that becomes a lot of money for a position the teams don't value that highly anyway. And then a draft pick on top of that.

I suspect teams will end up thinking that if the Pats are shopping him then they'll probably cut him anyway and that they'd be better off waiting and then signing Amendola to a much more friendly contract. A draft pick would be nice, it's just that I wouldn't expect it.

Again manx. I agree with you 98%. We seem to be on the same page with many topics.
When I speak about a possible trade, it was more in the range of "we should try" then something I think has a high chance of actually happening. We all know (and so does the rest of the league) that the patriots need to part ways with him. I think that is the biggest factor that eliminates any trade value on his part. However, I will be crossing my fingers he scores 3 touchdowns this weekend. lol. Im just trying to contemplate a few ways we could acquire a few extra picks in this years draft. A lot of people say its a shallow draft class. Yes if you are looking for an immediate impact franchise players, then yes it is. When it comes to developmental prospects, I think it's really deep, therefore I hope we can somehow acquire more picks.

 

[manxman2601]

PS.


Again manx. I agree with you 98%. We seem to be on the same page with many topics.
When I speak about a possible trade, it was more in the range of "we should try" then something I think has a high chance of actually happening. We all know (and so does the rest of the league) that the patriots need to part ways with him. I think that is the biggest factor that eliminates any trade value on his part. However, I will be crossing my fingers he scores 3 touchdowns this weekend. lol. Im just trying to contemplate a few ways we could acquire a few extra picks in this years draft. A lot of people say its a shallow draft class. Yes if you are looking for an immediate impact franchise players, then yes it is. When it comes to developmental prospects, I think it's really deep, therefore I hope we can somehow acquire more picks.

How about we hope he scores three TDs in both the next games?

If you see my mock, you'll see that I actually hope we keep Amendola because I think he has value. For now his production and value don't tie up all that well and I hope that either an increase in his production or a renegotiated contract change that equation more in the Patriots favour. But at the same time I recognise that he probably won't be a Patriot next year. I will be disappointed though as I've always liked his promise.

As for this draft, I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially when it comes to the development potential in this draft. For teams prepared to be be patient, I think this draft offers some genuine depth - and at certain positions like pass rusher, running back and wide receiver (the depth), it's positively exciting.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

How about we hope he scores three TDs in both the next games?

If you see my mock, you'll see that I actually hope we keep Amendola because I think he has value. For now his production and value don't tie up all that well and I hope that either an increase in his production or a renegotiated contract change that equation more in the Patriots favour. But at the same time I recognise that he probably won't be a Patriot next year. I will be disappointed though as I've always liked his promise.

As for this draft, I agree with you wholeheartedly, especially when it comes to the development potential in this draft. For teams prepared to be be patient, I think this draft offers some genuine depth - and at certain positions like pass rusher, running back and wide receiver (the depth), it's positively exciting.

That sounds like a awesome plan

Yes I agree. My main complaint and issue with him is his salary. To put it simply, It cripples our team in many ways. Its just to much money for a player with his production.

Yes this draft is loaded with talent in all 3 of those departments. I actually think it's fairly deep in the safety field also. Although I like some of the players, talent, and depth of our safety positions. I feel like there's room to improve, especially in the strong safety area. I think it's pretty apparent what can come out of a strong safety whose multifaceted, ie. Cam Chancellor. Between Adrian amos, Cody Prewitt, or Josh shaw, and a few others. I feel like one of these will slip in the draft and are all worth a later draft pick. I want to make room for this if it were to happen. The reason I like these 3, I feel they also suite as possible FS candidates if something were to happen to D.Mac. It can never hurt to have balanced hybrid players and the majority of these players I named offer that.

 

[manxman2601]

That sounds like a awesome plan

Yes I agree. My main complaint and issue with him is his salary. To put it simply, It cripples our team in many ways. Its just to much money for a player with his production.

Yes this draft is loaded with talent in all 3 of those departments. I actually think it's fairly deep in the safety field also. Although I like some of the players, talent, and depth of our safety positions. I feel like there's room to improve, especially in the strong safety area. I think it's pretty apparent what can come out of a strong safety whose multifaceted, ie. Cam Chancellor. Between Adrian amos, Cody Prewitt, or Josh shaw, and a few others. I feel like one of these will slip in the draft and are all worth a later draft pick. I want to make room for this if it were to happen. The reason I like these 3, I feel they also suite as possible FS candidates if something were to happen to D.Mac. It can never hurt to have balanced hybrid players and the majority of these players I named offer that.

I'm less keen on the safety depth although Josh Shaw is someone I'd be all over if he was available at any time on day three. I'm a big Duron Harmon fan, so much so that, whilst I haven't said this out loud yet, I do see him potentially making McCourty expendable. But if our safety rotation is McCourty, Harmon, Chung, Wilson then I'd be absolutely fine with that. I don't think this class can really upgrade that.

Particularly, and this is my current gimmicky idea, if we play Jamie Collins in the Kam Chancellor position. We're playing a lot of sub and with Mayo coming back next year hopefully we could play Mayo and Hightower at linebacker and then drop Collins into a big nickel safety position. Lets face it, Collins is bigger and more athletic than Chancellor and hits just as hard and Collins functions much better in space. Use him to cover a TE, blitz the QB whilst dropping Hightower/Mayo into coverage, sit Collins in zone to destroy crossers like Chancellor does etc. I think this offers so much flexibility and of course isn't something we'd be stuck too. We can still play Chung at safety and move Collins back to linebacker if the matchup demands it.

Collins-McCourty-Chung-Harmon-Wilson is an outstanding safety rotation.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I'm less keen on the safety depth although Josh Shaw is someone I'd be all over if he was available at any time on day three. I'm a big Duron Harmon fan, so much so that, whilst I haven't said this out loud yet, I do see him potentially making McCourty expendable. But if our safety rotation is McCourty, Harmon, Chung, Wilson then I'd be absolutely fine with that. I don't think this class can really upgrade that.

Particularly, and this is my current gimmicky idea, if we play Jamie Collins in the Kam Chancellor position. We're playing a lot of sub and with Mayo coming back next year hopefully we could play Mayo and Hightower at linebacker and then drop Collins into a big nickel safety position. Lets face it, Collins is bigger and more athletic than Chancellor and hits just as hard and Collins functions much better in space. Use him to cover a TE, blitz the QB whilst dropping Hightower/Mayo into coverage, sit Collins in zone to destroy crossers like Chancellor does etc. I think this offers so much flexibility and of course isn't something we'd be stuck too. We can still play Chung at safety and move Collins back to linebacker if the matchup demands it.

Collins-McCourty-Chung-Harmon-Wilson is an outstanding safety rotation.

That is some real food for thought my friend. I myself like D.Mac, but I'm also not in love love with him. He just isn't on the level Earl Thomas is. As much as I want the team to retain him. I just hope they don't over pay him. Honestly I believe Sherman and Chancellor are somewhat by-products of ET. For instance,his elite ability to play a single high set without having to somewhat favor a particular side does wonders for everyone else in their backfield. I can't even begin to explain how many times Ive seen ET come to save the day when his teammates get beat badly. God, if it wasn't for him, Sherman would've been made a fool of on multiple occasions this season. I mean a fool, like a lineman trying to run a 40 fool.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

Do you remember Craig Loston from this past years draft? He is currently a FA and a player I feel could play a Chung role at a really cheap price. He was a 5th year senior out of LSU (DBU). A Former 5 start recruit, He had limited playing time due various reasons. In the begging it was academic, then it was because of injury reasons, but primarily it was due to some of the amazing players on LSU’s roster during his time in Baton Rouge (Tyrann Mathieu, Eric Reed, Patrick P, and LSU's current FS Jalen Mills are just a few I can quickly name). With that being said, he was a big physical SS, 6-3 220, and has some pretty decent ball skills. He by no mean is he perfect, but with the talent on the roster I think he could be coached (primary tackling) to do the job like Chung has. The best part would be, it would come at a UDFA price. I wish they would give him a look on next years 90 man roster.I still believe this team lacks a true intimidator. A vocal player who brings attitude to this D! This is exactly what Loston was at LSU.

If your looking for a player who is comparable to Kam, go read both of their NFL.com Draft profiles. They basically have identical pre draft grades and analysis. Like Identical! If anything I think Loston's grade may have an edge. (ignore the incorrect physical measurables, NFL.com got them wrong, much taller)

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/craig-loston?id=2543726

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kam-chancellor?id=494257

It sucks he showed up late to practice in Jacksonville and they cut him, and he's been a FA ever since.
Bottom line is, he is way to talented to not be on some NFL teams roster, even if it means a practice squad. I believe finding prospects like this, that have fallen can be the difference between conference titles, and Superbowl rings. Just my take on things.

 

[Marqui]

The Pats 1st pick this year has to be a guard right?

 

[mayoclinic]

The Pats 1st pick this year has to be a guard right?

No. But they will almost certainly take an OL capable of playing guard sometime on day 1-2.

 

[patsfaninpa]

No. But they will almost certainly take an OL capable of playing guard sometime on day 1-2.

Or two. Might double dip. Hoping we draft a lot of big boys this year on both lines.

 

[manxman2601]

PFT are reporting that only six underclassmen that declared received first round grades. Considering that according to CBS.com, 22 of the first 32 prospects are underclassmen, this seems strange. I can only assume that the committee are VERY conservative or that a bunch of underclassmen are declaring without getting a valuation first.

According to the source, there were six official first-round evaluations this year, and all six players declared. Of 20 second-round evaluations, 14 entered the draft.

Of the 149 underclassmen who were evaluated, 123 of them were advised to stay in school (which apparently is the advice given to players not pegged for rounds one or two). Thirty-three of them ignored the advice.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...e-players-apply-for-early-entry-to-the-draft/

 

[mayoclinic]

PFT are reporting that only six underclassmen that declared received first round grades. Considering that according to CBS.com, 22 of the first 32 prospects are underclassmen, this seems strange. I can only assume that the committee are VERY conservative or that a bunch of underclassmen are declaring without getting a valuation first.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...e-players-apply-for-early-entry-to-the-draft/

The committee is notoriously conservative, and they have frequently given 2nd round grades to guys who went in the 1st round, IIRC.

 

[mayoclinic]

From Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter:

I’ll preview my Top 50 list on today’s podcast (list will post tomorrow). One spoiler, Danny Shelton is my 5th overall player

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/555859863692406784

I'm not that high on Shelton, personally, and have him well behind Goldman, Phillips and Brown. Will have to re-watch film. The only DraftBreakdown clip from 2014 currently available is against Hawaii - not the best competition.

Jeremiah loves Kevin White, BTW, considers him a top 5 pick, and has him going to Oakland at #4 in his recent mock.

 

[manxman2601]

An excellent break down on Odighizuwa here.

http://www.footballinsiders.com/owamagbe-odighizuwas-nfl-draft-breakdown/

This sentence sums out why I think he'll appeal to BB:

One of Odighizuwa’s best traits is his versatility. He has experience being impactful and productive from the under tackle (3-technique), 3-4 defensive end (5-technique) and 4-3 defensive end (6- or 7-technique) positions at UCLA. His ability to play multiple position will increase his draft stock since he can play in any defensive scheme

And this:

When you turn on Odighizuwa the first thing that will like jump out at you is his ability to play against the run. Nowadays, with the emphasis on passing, evaluators place the bulk of their grade on a defensive end’s ability to rush the passer; however, that ignores the fact that defensive ends still need to be effective against the run. This is where Odighizuwa excels.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't expect anyone to jump on this particular bandwagon because my eval is purely based upon a couple of tweets and some all-22 highlight film, but I think I've found my Jimmie Ward for this year. It's Kansas safety Cassius Sendish who CBS don't consider draftable and I'm not yet suggesting he is. But boy, the highlight tape suggests he's exactly the type of safety I love and he plays just like Jimmie Ward did.

The tweets:

gms and scouts who were at the MOH about Sendish... They loved him

https://twitter.com/agentlinton/status/556589321864503297

FWIW, one coach told me Sendish had some of the best instincts of any safety he'd ever coached.

https://twitter.com/search?q=sendish&src=typd

There's a 38 min all-22 highlight video on youtube which I won't post but if anyone wants me to I will. But watching it, his instincts really are apparent. Might have to dig up some Kansas games for him.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'm still on William and Mary DE Mike Reilly's bandwagon. Would love to him in the 5th or 6th.

Do a 2 for 1 at their pro day and look at WR Tre McBride while they are down there. Or vice versa.

 

[manxman2601]

I'm still on William and Mary DE Mike Reilly's bandwagon. Would love to him in the 5th or 6th.

Do a 2 for 1 at their pro day and look at WR Tre McBride while they are down there. Or vice versa.

Was that you that mentioned him the first time? I'd forgotten about him. I haven't seen him mentioned with regards to any of the recent all star games. He was interesting.

And I'm sorry bout my earlier behaviour. I wasn't getting at you, there was some selfish bottled up emotion oozing out their. Won't mention it again.

 

[HawaiianPatsfan]

I don't expect anyone to jump on this particular bandwagon because my eval is purely based upon a couple of tweets and some all-22 highlight film, but I think I've found my Jimmie Ward for this year. It's Kansas safety Cassius Sendish who CBS don't consider draftable and I'm not yet suggesting he is. But boy, the highlight tape suggests he's exactly the type of safety I love and he plays just like Jimmie Ward did.

The tweets:


https://twitter.com/agentlinton/status/556589321864503297


https://twitter.com/search?q=sendish&src=typd

There's a 38 min all-22 highlight video on youtube which I won't post but if anyone wants me to I will. But watching it, his instincts really are apparent. Might have to dig up some Kansas games for him.

Not to say anything against your scouting. I respect your knowledge, I really do, I almost admire it. However I just want to put this out there in more of a diss to the 49ers as a franchise. Jimmy Ward has been horrible this season! I do understand the 49ers put him in some tough situations, which only made him look worse (Brandon Marshall single coverage in the slot multiple times, giving up 3 TD's lol). Needless to say, Im going to take a look at your guy.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Was that you that mentioned him the first time? I'd forgotten about him. I haven't seen him mentioned with regards to any of the recent all star games. He was interesting.

And I'm sorry bout my earlier behaviour. I wasn't getting at you, there was some selfish bottled up emotion oozing out their. Won't mention it again.

Water under the bridge dude. You both bring a lot to the forum with the research you guys do. Its hard to figure out who's finds were first without going through 50 pages or sometimes prev years.

He just won defensive player of the year for his conference albeit a very weak one. 2nd team all American. Not saying he is the next coming of LT but he is certainly athletic and loves the game of football. Comparisons to Ninkovich have been made by some. A project with upside of Rob N and a low side of Bequette you could say. Who knows with late rounders?

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

From Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter:


https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/555859863692406784

I'm not that high on Shelton, personally, and have him well behind Goldman, Phillips and Brown. Will have to re-watch film. The only DraftBreakdown clip from 2014 currently available is against Hawaii - not the best competition.

Jeremiah loves Kevin White, BTW, considers him a top 5 pick, and has him going to Oakland at #4 in his recent mock.

I have read your comments on Shelton a few times. One thing that keeps bringing me back to him is how patient he is holding on to his blocks. He is not anywhere near as athletic as a Star Loto from last year, but he isnt running passed any play either.

I guess it depends on what you value from the NT position. I think the penetrating NT is a great luxury, but having one that will hold up multiple blockers and allows others to make plays definitely has huge value to me.

With that said, no way is he a top 5 guy, but I would love him from 24 on as a potential Vince replacement.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Small side note about Maxx Williams. His dad played on Belichick's giants teams in the late 80s and early 90's. Dont know if that means anything, but I promise you Bill knows about the kid.