Patriots Rumors: Eliot Wolf ‘Pushing Hard’ For This QB Prospect

[Vindicate]

If anything they have more similarities than differences although Mac put up better production.

Maybe it's easy to forget (I know I have to remind myself of the concept and what it means), but the NFL is so much faster and disciplined than college football. Those wacky plays from McCarthy which looks like a QB performing under pressure and making a play in a tense situations are plays that'd be blown up/intercepted in the NFL.

The NFL is too fast for McCarthy.

Again, I'll happily eat crow and admit stupidity if we pick him and I'm wrong.

 

[Ivan]

Absolutely!

ONE team make a one-time terrible deal and that is the market for the next 5 years. ???

It is a matter of value. If we don't want the player left at 3, should we

Refuse to trade the pick for anything less than the 3 first plus? and
1) Pick the top QB on our board?
2) Pick the best player on the board?
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#3 is worth 3 first plus more IF and only IFF someone is willing to pay that price.
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We SHOULD definitely take less if we prefer 2 or 3 other QB's over what is available at 3.
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We all are jumping up and down because we KNOW that the best QB's don't include McCarthy, Penix or Nix.

If you don’t want the QB, and they balk at the price, then you make it clear that you are going to look at other deals, like a lesser move at a lower price. If they want the QB then they will pay the price. There’s no rule that you can only make a deal with one team. You’re acting like you are dealimg from a position of weakness when in truth there are numerous teams that need a QB, and they always end up paying a high price to get one.

And yes, the price for 11 to 3 is 3 1st’s. If you take less than that you’re an idiot.

 

[mgteich]

If you don’t want the QB, and they balk at the price, then you make it clear that you are going to look at other deals, like a lesser move at a lower price. If they want the QB then they will pay the price. There’s no rule that you can only make a deal with one team. You’re acting like you are dealimg from a position of weakness when in truth there are numerous teams that need a QB, and they always end up paying a high price to get one.

And yes, the price for 11 to 3 is 3 1st’s. If you take less than that you’re an idiot.

Right, because we want the player available at 3.

But sure, we will save face and refuse 3 firsts because we think we should hold out for more.

And then, we will trade for 6 or 8, get much less and draft an OT, because the QB we want is gone. But, we stood firm. We win!

 

[Ivan]

Right, because we want the player available at 3.

But sure, we will save face and refuse 3 firsts because we think we should hold out for more.

And then, we will trade for 6 or 8, get much less and draft an OT, because the QB we want is gone. But, we stood firm. We win!

Even better, tell them we are scared to take the player at three, apologize for telling them we want the same price given to make that move in a recent draft, tell them they can have #3 for a 2nd rounder in 26’, and promise never to ask for market value in a trade with them again. Done deal, no more hurt feelings. Everybody wins.

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

There is no way I'm taking JJ McCarthy before Jayden Daniels given the chance.

I would, but that’s because I don’t see Daniels becoming more than a backup. I also think Maye should go #1, but what do I know? Nothing.

 

[The Gr8est]

I would, but that’s because I don’t see Daniels becoming more than a backup. I also think Maye should go #1, but what do I know? Nothing.

Daniels scares me.

He could be a comet. Starts out spectacular and then flames out.

He does not have the build for longevity and he is already overaged.

In the end you may be worse off than when you started by designing an offense, and the players in it, around his style.

The Rats were going places with Aaron Rodgers, until he got knocked out for the year on the first series.

 

[KCSVEN]

Daniels scares me.

He could be a comet. Starts out spectacular and then flames out.

He does not have the build for longevity and he is already overaged.

In the end you may be worse off than when you started by designing an offense, and the players in it, around his style.

The Rats were going places with Aaron Rodgers, until he got knocked out for the year on the first series.

I think the Daniels negatives are pretty overblown.
I Already posted the facts that showed smaller players get hurt less than bigger players and running QB's are hurt less than non-running Qb's. So, nothing about his build has historically led to more injuries, actually less injuries overall.

Kurt Warner was 27 when he first got to the Rams and 28 the first year he was a starter. Joe Burrow same age as Daniels when drafted.

Daniels can play day 1, Maye, JJ, the younger QB's have to sit a year minimum to get where Daniels is, and they are only 2 years younger. The recent article that was posted here how the successful drafted QB's tend to play the most college games, again Daniels fits the prototype. The age thing is pretty much irrelevant. Actually, to me, it is an advantage, as he needs less time to develop, you have years of tape on him etc.

I'm not sure he has the accuracy and decision making but the other things are not a concern.

I do love that he seems to be the hardest working QB in the draft, he spends 24/7 trying to be better and he has elite running skills.
His floor is pretty high, and you probably get 10 years with him as no worse than an average starting QB.
Not sold on his throwing skills being elite though, and that's how you get to be a top 5 QB.

 

[mgteich]

I think the Daniels negatives are pretty overblown.
I Already posted the facts that showed smaller players get hurt less than bigger players and running QB's are hurt less than non-running Qb's. So, nothing about his build has historically led to more injuries, actually less injuries overall.

Kurt Warner was 27 when he first got to the Rams and 28 the first year he was a starter. Joe Burrow same age as Daniels when drafted.

Daniels can play day 1, Maye, JJ, the younger QB's have to sit a year minimum to get where Daniels is, and they are only 2 years younger. The recent article that was posted here how the successful drafted QB's tend to play the most college games, again Daniels fits the prototype. The age thing is pretty much irrelevant. Actually, to me, it is an advantage, as he needs less time to develop, you have years of tape on him etc.

I'm not sure he has the accuracy and decision making but the other things are not a concern.

I do love that he seems to be the hardest working QB in the draft, he spends 24/7 trying to be better and he has elite running skills.
His floor is pretty high, and you probably get 10 years with him as no worse than an average starting QB.
Not sold on his throwing skills being elite though, and that's how you get to be a top 5 QB.

patsfans.com is a fact-free zone

 

[Force Zero Boomer]

I think the Daniels negatives are pretty overblown.
I Already posted the facts that showed smaller players get hurt less than bigger players and running QB's are hurt less than non-running Qb's. So, nothing about his build has historically led to more injuries, actually less injuries overall.

Did you break things down by severity of injury? Now this is just me spit-balling, but hear me out, perhaps smaller players get injured less because they take fewer hits (due to escape-ability), but when they do get hit, the injuries are more severe. So I guess the right metric to use would be time on the injured list or similar.

Kurt Warner was 27 when he first got to the Rams and 28 the first year he was a starter. Joe Burrow same age as Daniels when drafted.

My main concern is not chronological age, but development potential. Warner just needed a chance: he was already THAT Kurt Warner, the one that ended up in the HoF. And while Daniels had a great final season with LSU, Burrows was in the stratosphere (60 TD vs 6 INT) in his final season there. I don't see Daniels as having that kind of talent, and at his age, his level of play is what it is: an average starter, at best, but probably a backup. JJ isn't done cooking yet, and his ceiling could be far higher. He has all the tools, but he could be a bust. Swing for the fences, I say!

I do love that he seems to be the hardest working QB in the draft, he spends 24/7 trying to be better and he has elite running skills.
His floor is pretty high, and you probably get 10 years with him as no worse than an average starting QB.
Not sold on his throwing skills being elite though, and that's how you get to be a top 5 QB.

Hard-working is a big tick in his favor, for sure. Always trying to improve is a Brady-like characteristic. The running skills are great, but those degrade with time as injuries pile up.

The Patriots are going to suck for a while. I feel like Daniels has no shot to be an elite QB in the NFL, just a serviceable starter at best and most probably a backup. If we're going to suck and there are still guys on the board with elite potential (like JJ), why not take a flyer? The Pats will go through at least one more head coach before they are a playoff team again, so let's take some swings while the talent is there.

 

[KCSVEN]

The Patriots are going to suck for a while. I feel like Daniels has no shot to be an elite QB in the NFL, just a serviceable starter at best and most probably a backup. If we're going to suck and there are still guys on the board with elite potential (like JJ), why not take a flyer? The Pats will go through at least one more head coach before they are a playoff team again, so let's take some swings while the talent is there.

I guess I don't know if Daniels will be elite, he is elite running the ball. So at least he has an elite talent.
You must go for a franchise QB this year when drafting high in a strong draft, you just have to do it. As noted in the ESPN article you only need to be 20% confident the QB can become a quality NFL starter to make him a pick at #3 based on the value of the QB being so high.
If you want to be the coach when they next make the playoffs you HAVE TO get the QB as soon as you can.

Most scouts have Daniels as a top 3 QB prospect, obviously if they think he sucks they don't draft him.

On another note, I just watched every throw by JJ in 2023. Previously watched the other top 3.
I will say JJ was the best pre-snap and post snap processor, he can run an NFL offense. That's the hardest thing to judge in a prospect.
I thought Daniels was only OK at that, Williams was not good at it, Maye was in between them.
Unfortunately, the tape on JJ is not as extensive as the others but I see why he may be the long term best QB of the bunch but also see why he's the hardest to judge overall. He very rarely chose the wrong read. Reminded me of how Brady operated in terms of style not that he has HOF level processing, maybe more like Purdy and Burrow in overall processing.

It will be fun to see who they get, and it will make the next year or 2 interesting just hoping they hit on the QB. Hopefully the Pats really do have excellent QB evaluators on staff.

 

[VectorPrime]

If ANY scouting report on a QB prospect going in the top 3 includes anything along the lines of “is a winner” or “having moxie” or “commands a room” or “interviews well” in the first two paragraphs then that scout should be fired with cause immediately.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

any updates on jd's elbow ?

 

[NashuaPats]

any updates on jd's elbow ?

It’s still growing and supposedly is learning to speak.

 

[scott99]

I prefer Maye or Daniels over McCarthy. That being said, McCarthy is an EXCELLENT prospect. He’s got good arm strength, excellent escapability, throws extremely well on the run, is very athletic. You can actually call designed runs with him. Also I think he has a ton of confidence in himself, but also is a great leader, great teammate. Very smart as well, reads defenses and will progress through his reads. I’d be slightly upset if they took McCarthy over Maye or Daniels, but I like McCarthy a lot, I like Michigan, so I’ve been a fan of his for over 2 years.

If Wolfe and team feel he’s the guy we need to take at 3, they have to live or die with that move. I’m rooting heavily for whoever we take and hope whoever we take winds up being a top 10 QB.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

It’s still growing and supposedly is learning to speak.

esperanto ?

 

[Ivan]

It’s still growing and supposedly is learning to speak.

Nice.

 

[PatsFan2]

Daniels scares me.

He could be a comet. Starts out spectacular and then flames out.

He does not have the build for longevity and he is already overaged.

In the end you may be worse off than when you started by designing an offense, and the players in it, around his style.

The Rats were going places with Aaron Rodgers, until he got knocked out for the year on the first series.

I would still like to find out.

 

[goheels22002]

There's a lot of pressure on this regime to get this right. If they miss, they'll all be out of a job and you'll be another rebuild 3 years from now. They cannot afford to miss.

The thing about this draft is that four or five rookies will make a contribution given the #3 slot in every round. They still have 20 open roster spots, so some free agents will find their way into camp to go along with 10-12 draft/undrafted rookies. We know they have unspent money to address a couple of needs. The draft will spring free some guys who can help.

The pressure is really to get most of it right and compete in an AFC East that has its top two teams struggling with the cap and the Jets somehow being the Jets no matter what. If the rookie QB is capable, the pressure is on the coaching staff on offense to manage the situation properly. The defense is going to be competitive.