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2008 Draft Discussion Thread


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Here you go:

DRC/McKelvin at #10
Curtis Lofton (Deal up the 2 and high 3)
Cliff Avril (who we passed on to take O'Connell)
Dan Connor

How does that look ?

I liked DRC/McKelvin, but ILB was a huge need, and the Pats addressed it with Mayo.

I thought Lofton was a late 2nd rounder. He went early 2nd instead. So he wasn't going to be available without a moveup. Which means we would have had to give up the 3rd rounder that we turned into a future 2nd round pick. When you consider that pick might be used in a moveup for a Malauga in 2009, I'd rather have the future 2nd rounder.

The Pats passed on Avril to take Crable actually. Which means that Crable is higher ranked as an OLB on their board. Crable has very good athleticism/size package 4.6 40, 6'4 245 lbs, and 29 bench reps. So I'll trust them in evaluating Crable as better value than Avril.

I've never liked O'Connor as a Pats prospect. Thought he was too small and too slow for our system.

So yeah it would have been nice to get a better corner, but if we had done so, there's no way we get Mayo. So I'll settle for Mayo. I think he has the upside to be like an Al Wilson in our D. I won't go as far to say a Patrick Willis, but Al Wilson was a pretty darn good player. I'd settle for that.
 
I liked DRC/McKelvin, but ILB was a huge need, and the Pats addressed it with Mayo.

I thought Lofton was a late 2nd rounder. He went early 2nd instead. So he wasn't going to be available without a moveup. Which means we would have had to give up the 3rd rounder that we turned into a future 2nd round pick. When you consider that pick might be used in a moveup for a Malauga in 2009, I'd rather have the future 2nd rounder.

The Pats passed on Avril to take Crable actually. Which means that Crable is higher ranked as an OLB on their board. Crable has very good athleticism/size package 4.6 40, 6'4 245 lbs, and 29 bench reps. So I'll trust them in evaluating Crable as better value than Avril.

I've never liked O'Connor as a Pats prospect. Thought he was too small and too slow for our system.

So yeah it would have been nice to get a better corner, but if we had done so, there's no way we get Mayo. So I'll settle for Mayo. I think he has the upside to be like an Al Wilson in our D. I won't go as far to say a Patrick Willis, but Al Wilson was a pretty darn good player. I'd settle for that.

I hear what you're saying, look I know Mayo has a chance to be the next Patrick Willis, I know it was a great need. Again, I just thought with the late 2 and 3 - 3's that we of all teams had the fire power to move up for a Groves or Cason.
 
Any good RB left? What's everyone's thoughts on Mike Hart? I know he doesn't have the measurables but he had a good track record and could be good value this late.
 
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Any good RB left? What's everyone's thoughts on Mike Hart? I know he doesn't have the measurables but he had a good track record and could be good value this late.

I have the feeling Mike Hart is gonna be a UDFA. Wait until then to invite him to camp.
 
Let me ask you a question. Are you completely happy with how this draft ended up or do you think they could have done better (thus the BB/Pioli FO koolaid)? Be honest here and that's really all I'm doing as a fan is questioning some of the picks given what was on the board, more so in round 3. I think taking a Dan Connor given our LB situation was a given with that 1st - 3 instead of dealing it away to an arch-rival to help them out by giving them the top rated fullback to replacea very important position for them as lead blocker for LT. Taking a player like Wilhite over someone with the potential of Jack Ikegwuonu is something I can question. Obviously 5 of us combined cannot do a better scouting/eval job than the FO, I'm not that stupid, it was a joke if you want to know the truth. But I just feel that BB/Pioli could have done better than what we have so far. Again, just my opinion.

Sure I do, but like I said before, even my WTF about O'Connell was tempered after I took a step back and said "oh, yeah, I see what they might be doing"...bottom line, I question them every year to some extent or another because they always surprise me, but I'm also usually wrong as I look at the next year or two. Based on that, after the draft, I like to sit back, look to "what they were thinking" rather than "what were they thinking" and I usually come away fairly happy, and the next year usually proves them right with one or two exceptions, as is to be expected with ANY draft.
 
I hear what you're saying, look I know Mayo has a chance to be the next Patrick Willis, I know it was a great need. Again, I just thought with the late 2 and 3 - 3's that we of all teams had the fire power to move up for a Groves or Cason.


:agree:

also i thought a trade up for other cb...
but they passed godfrey for example...
they like Wheatley a lot?:D
 
Sure I do, but like I said before, even my WTF about O'Connell was tempered after I took a step back and said "oh, yeah, I see what they might be doing"...bottom line, I question them every year to some extent or another because they always surprise me, but I'm also usually wrong as I look at the next year or two. Based on that, after the draft, I like to sit back, look to "what they were thinking" rather than "what were they thinking" and I usually come away fairly happy, and the next year usually proves them right with one or two exceptions, as is to be expected with ANY draft.

The O'Connell pick does come from , partly, a reason that Cassell is not an answer for the long-term which means a miss on Cassell. Not a bid deal since Cassell was a 7th but is there backup QB was more 'secure' in BB/Pioli's mind then they could of been more freed up for this 3rd rounder to do something else (look at other positions with more value..). Tough call but I'm just a little more geared to the short-term which means spend that 3rd rounder on another position...but it's hard to fault BB/Pioli with their long-term thinking on QB.
 
Thank god the draft is finally over. The one surprising thing, we didn't draft a SINGLE tight end!
 
I have the feeling Mike Hart is gonna be a UDFA. Wait until then to invite him to camp.

Colts selected him 5 picks after ours. I have a feeling he's going to be a good backup RB although I hope I'm wrong.
 
Colts selected him 5 picks after ours. I have a feeling he's going to be a good backup RB although I hope I'm wrong.

Ah well, I liked Kevin Smith way better as a RB prospect. But he was taken 1st pick of the 3rd round, so that wasn't gonna happen for us anyways. No biggie.
 
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TEs-0, LBs-3

Is linebacker the new tight end?
:D

Or maybe Ruud is a TE conversion project? He seems a little too small to play LB for us... so that might be their idea all along! :D
 
Who's not at least mildly shocked that we drafted only 1 offensive player and a QB to boot ?!!!!?!!?
3 - LB
2 - CB
1 - FS
1 - QB

wow...I thought I was use to BB/Pioli's 'unorthodox' drafts from all these years but I'm still a little speachless....
 
Who's not at least mildly shocked that we drafted only 1 offensive player and a QB to boot ?!!!!?!!?
3 - LB
2 - CB
1 - FS
1 - QB

wow...I thought I was use to BB/Pioli's 'unorthodox' drafts from all these years but I'm still a little speachless....

Well Wheatley has flexibility to play WR. He did make some catches for his team, and he's a great kick returner.
The guy in the 5th round that is a ST gunner is also technically listed as a WR. So you could argue that the Pats got 3 offensive players and 2 ST players out of this draft. I'm not sure what Ruud is gonna/supposed to be. Seems too small to be a LB, might be a ST guy or converted to a TE?
 
I was pleased this year to see the Pats go almost exclusively for defense.

With any luck, Mayo, Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, and Wilhite will

make the team. Mayo should see some playing time. Wheatley

and Wilhite will be groomed for 2009. O'Connell will bounce either

Cassel or Guiterrez from the team. Crable will compete with Woods

for playing time at back-up OLB. Slater and Rudd will probably not

make the final roster. Slater might have a small chance of bumping

Aiken or Andrews if he is exceptional on special teams.
 
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I hear what you're saying, look I know Mayo has a chance to be the next Patrick Willis, I know it was a great need. Again, I just thought with the late 2 and 3 - 3's that we of all teams had the fire power to move up for a Groves or Cason.

You know KC had a pretty good draft - Maybe you may want to think about being a Chiefs fan in 2008? - I'll even buy you a 'Herm Edwards Rules' T-Shirt to help you along with the initiation.

STOP WHINING - ITS OVER

If we only have 1 guy left who was not cut after training camp then you can cry us a river again and maybe we accept it THEN,Not now in late April.
 
I never claimed to be smarter than you. I say that in knowledge of players available in the draft you are a relative moron compared to the acummulated knowledge and resources of BB/SP. You may like other players better, and that is cool. We all have favorites. But subscribing to ESPN Insider and reading Mike Florio just doesn't give you enough info to make you as smart as you seem to think you are.

Ahh, yes, the old "I never".... well, you never read the thread either, or learned comprehension, because I clearly stated that Belioli had superior knowledge to me and that history would likely prove Belioli right. I did, in fact, post that on more than one occasion. Perhaps if you had tried reading before posting, you'd have seen that.

Next time, get your head out of Belioli's laps and read before you post.
 
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I liked the first days' picks, though I think we should have been able to get more value in trade for Ellis--considering NO offered (2) 1sts and a 2nd for Dorsey 2 picks earlier. The trade was set up before hand, they didnt get Cincy in that bidding war and essentially ended up with only a 4th in value(3rd minus 5th).
Going into today I thought there was a real chance of getting several players to fill out the roster with real chances of sticking.....Now I know BB/SP have an idea going into the draft how many spots on the final roster they want to fill with rookies. And I am a cheap yankee, I hate seeing money("value")left on the table.....
3a- trading with SD(who will be VERY good this year)-I think this was a deeper draft than next year. 69 this year will likely be BETTER than 59 next year. Adding a 5th(who wont make the team)does nothing for me.
3b- Michigan players. Besides TB, has there EVER been a decent one on this team?? Crable is the new Woods, we have the old Woods who couldnt find the fumble in the SB.... Avril was supposed to be the new Colvin...
3c- In another classic, we admit that not having Flutie or Vinny made BB nervous. If TB goes down, our season is DONE, and I think we all know it....some of us are ok with that...Are veteran QBs so much more $$? This guy ideally will never play for us. He makes the team without putting the pads on(which I dont belive in either). Too many of these types of pats' picks are given roster spots instead of having to earn them.
The 3rd round is the difference between a average draft and a great draft. We were in perfect position to get a pass rushing OLB(Avril)to replace Woods, a backup lineman(Collins/McGlynn)to push Britt/Kaczur and either a rb/wr that would make the team(Charles/Smith/Manningham/Doucet/Hawkins)to replace Eckel. I am most certain ODonnell would have been there in the 4th.....We reached far too many times and left alot of chips on the table. If we are going to use 3rds and 4ths like that why dont we bundle em up and get a player that will make the team. The 4th rd DB will get hurt and go on IR just like Richardson.....
My take, 1 starter, 3 others make the roster(though you cant really count the backup QB because he has no impact). Wheatley might be a starter next year....if one of our FAs goes bust. NO CHANCE of a real impact draft....where we could get 3-5 starters. Just like the last 2 years I say the FO went to sleep on the later rounds.JMO.
 
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I liked the first days' picks, though I think we should have been able to get more value in trade for Ellis--considering NO offered (2) 1sts and a 2nd for Dorsey 2 picks earlier. The trade was set up before hand, they didnt get Cincy in that bidding war and essentially ended up with only a 4th in value(3rd minus 5th).
Going into today I thought there was a real chance of getting several players to fill out the roster with real chances of sticking.....Now I know BB/SP have an idea going into the draft how many spots on the final roster they want to fill with rookies. And I am a cheap yankee, I hate seeing money("value")left on the table.....
3a- trading with SD(who will be VERY good this year)-I think this was a deeper draft than next year. 69 this year will likely be BETTER than 59 next year. Adding a 5th(who wont make the team)does nothing for me.
3b- Michigan players. Besides TB, has there EVER been a decent one on this team?? Crable is the new Woods, we have the old Woods who couldnt find the fumble in the SB.... Avril was supposed to be the new Colvin...
3c- In another classic, we admit that not having Flutie or Vinny made BB nervous. If TB goes down, our season is DONE, and I think we all know it....some of us are ok with that...Are veteran QBs so much more $$? This guy ideally will never play for us. He makes the team without putting the pads on(which I dont belive in either). Too many of these types of pats' picks are given roster spots instead of having to earn them.
The 3rd round is the difference between a average draft and a great draft. We were in perfect position to get a pass rushing OLB(Avril)to replace Woods, a backup lineman(Collins/McGlynn)to push Britt/Kaczur and either a rb/wr that would make the team(Charles/Smith/Manningham/Doucet/Hawkins)to replace Eckel. I am most certain ODonnell would have been there in the 4th.....We reached far too many times and left alot of chips on the table. If we are going to use 3rds and 4ths like that why dont we bundle em up and get a player that will make the team. The 4th rd DB will get hurt and go on IR just like Richardson.....
My take, 1 starter, 3 others make the roster(though you cant really count the backup QB because he has no impact). Wheatley might be a starter next year....if one of our FAs goes bust. NO CHANCE of a real impact draft....where we could get 3-5 starters. Just like the last 2 years I say the FO went to sleep on the later rounds.JMO.

1. Crable IS a pass rushing OLB. Because Pierre Woods hasn't done much, you think all Michigan players suck? Keep in mind Woods was an UDFA, so I'm not sure why you're comparing him with a player drafted in the 3rd round. I hope this is not the logic you bring to your biology practice.

2. You're assuming that all those guys you mentioned are more valuable to the Pats than Eckel. Eckel is a core special teamer and can run the ball in a pinch. What more do you want from a 5th RB? Kelly Washington is a former No. 1 pick with more talent than all the recievers you mentioned, yet he only plays special teams. Do you really think those guys you mentioned would see the field on this team? Really??

3. LMAO at the notion that Pats players don't earn their roster spots. Believe me, if they think O'Connell sucks, he's gone.

4. I can't even begin to imagine what you're basing your statement about next year's draft on. Wouldn't that depend on how the players play in their senior seasons? Wouldn't it depend on which underclassmen declare?? Do you enjoy making blanket statements with no factual support?
 
1. Crable IS a pass rushing OLB. Because Pierre Woods hasn't done much, you think all Michigan players suck? Keep in mind Woods was an UDFA, so I'm not sure why you're comparing him with a player drafted in the 3rd round. I hope this is not the logic you bring to your biology practice.

2. You're assuming that all those guys you mentioned are more valuable to the Pats than Eckel. Eckel is a core special teamer and can run the ball in a pinch. What more do you want from a 5th RB? Kelly Washington is a former No. 1 pick with more talent than all the recievers you mentioned, yet he only plays special teams. Do you really think those guys you mentioned would see the field on this team? Really??

3. LMAO at the notion that Pats players don't earn their roster spots. Believe me, if they think O'Connell sucks, he's gone.

4. I can't even begin to imagine what you're basing your statement about next year's draft on. Wouldn't that depend on how the players play in their senior seasons? Wouldn't it depend on which underclassmen declare?? Do you enjoy making blanket statements with no factual support?

On each of your points, this time I will be more clear:

1-Woods and Crable played the same position for the same team. They were both "specimens", but they both were tagged with "lack of work ethic and desire" tags. I didnt say it, but some "expert" said it. Seeing how little Woods has improved on the field....and how little ANY MICHIGAN player besides TB has helped this team......well, I developed my hypothesis.

2-Kelly Washington was a 3rd rd BUST for Cincy, never made it above 5th best WR on THEIR team. He is lucky to have a job, and he may not if Aiken outplays him this summer. Shoot, those two might both be battling 5th-6th rounder Slater for 1 spot.....though I see Slater as a PS guy. Eckel, PLEASE. Next year we will likely have to replace 2 RBs(Morris,maybe Faulk), why not get one of those 2 STEALS in the 3rd rd and have him play STs for a year?? It will be one less pick we will need next year....when the draft for RBs wont be as good.

3-My take on the Pats(and likely most teams)is that they pretty much give 1st rounders starters jobs from the beginning(though they may not play right away-its assumed). If you look at the last 3 years drafts in particular it "seems" like we go into the draft with a set number of roster spots for rookies. There is usually a line in the draft class where you can draw the line and say "everyone below here is going to have a hard time making the team".
I have done a "study" on BBs drafting, and its "expertise". I think we do well identifying the guys we want as starters on this team and putting us in a position to draft them. FA and trades seem to be our specialty. Our typical draft over 7 years nets us 3 players a year who make the team. The first rounder starts, and every other year 1 other guy earns a starting spot. Its not impossible to earn a spot, it just happens once every other year.....You can come up with a reason why this happens(BB likes old guys) but I suggest that its not an efficient use of all of our chits in the draft....
We didnt get appreciative value for either of our draft day trades this year.
We didnt sign a veteran QB who would make ODonnell obsolete. Rookies are not good backup QBs.
Positions of percieved strength werent addressed at all--meaning we did NOT take any BPAs. It also means to me that we are a bit complacent along the OL and DL. New guys and competition are always good, and the older guys help transition new guys. We will likely need both next year so why not get ONE guy to push Wright or Britt?? To me its looks like they are tired of stocking other teams with our leftovers so they just stopped trying to train rookies.....

4-Blanket statements or not, how many times are there "above average" numbers of quality players turned out? RBs? WRs? OLs? If its DEEP one year it usually means it wont be so deep the next...because of all the juniors coming out this year.....We wont have a chance at guys like Charles/Smith/Manningham/Collins and the rest every year in the 3rd round...never mind having 3(!!) chances. Compare our drafts to that of Baltimore/Atlanta/KC who also had 3 3rd rounders. Now I dont pretend to think that we are like KC needing "6 starters", but its like this team isnt concerned about developing depth or risking veteran uprising. I look at a team like the Giants who DID it last year and looks to be doing it again this year.
Guys like Hairston and Slater have been taken above guys who were both available and with a better chance to help this team.
Continuing our practice of stocking next year's shelves has cost us...as one poster said(dont know if it was on this site) we were 1 play short of WINNING SUPER BOWLS TWICE.....and if we had that one extra player, who made that one extra play, maybe we would have won them instead of making up reasons why we didnt.
 
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