2008 Draft Discussion Thread

[apple strudel]

I know it's been observed, but Miami's going to get pretty good pretty quick. 3 linemen, 1 big LB, and a quarterback. Add another tough minded, physical team to the AFC East. I'm not impressed with what the Jets have done.

 

[SavioKid]

Let's just START WITH THIS:

How do you come out of this draft without one of the top 7 CB's on the board, a HUGE, HUGE need for us! Let's just start with that.

I'm not drinking the kool-aid either since I don't agree with everything done in this draft but how the hell would you be able to get BOTH a top "7" LB AND CB without gmaking your team weaker (significantly!) in other areas since you would of needed to trade up big time (like give up next year's 1 plus ??). And who's stay Wheatley wasn't on their top 7 list??

Kiper & other dingbats are not the kings of scouting rankings that media thinks they are...a lot of 'busts' were declared top 5 in their position in a draft.

I like the 1st 2 round picks. What I don't like is I think they could of done a little bit better with the 1st round trade (get a 2nd instead of a 3rd), QB in the 3rd might of been a reach. I do like the other LB in the 3rd.

Again, like others have asked what would of been YOUR EXACTG draft scenario that should of happened??

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Right and we passed on those guys and Goff for a guy name Matt Slater.......But that's fine, pass the koolaid please, everything's fine...........

No offense, but for a guy who keeps talking about "kool aid" (yeah, it's 2 words, I checked), you certainly drank a pitcher full ("Oh yeah!") regarding your binky. I mean, if you want to talk about "buying in", you have taken it to a new level, making the ludicrous assumption that because Deion (yeah, he's a strong NFL talent scout for sure) thinks he's the next (next, next, next) him and watching him at the Senior Bowl and on tape certainly means he was the best talent available at CB and well worth taking a major downgrade at ILB (a MUCH MUCH MUCH more important position in our scheme than CB, see "past 7 years" for reference) to get your guy. Personally (ok, I went off the reservation at O'Connell but I'm back and I'm off the ledge) I'll trust BB/Pioli a LOT more than you, Kiper, and the combine numbers that are meaningless when it comes to what a guy can do in the real world. And as far as passing on Goff vs. Slater, maybe, just maybe, BB figures that a guy who might return even 2 kicks for TDs and make 2 tackles or plays to pin a team within the 10 is a lot more important than a late round ILB that he might not think will actually make the cut. But that's a guess on my part, but it's a guess based on the fact that the FO liked him and drafted him, whereas your guess is based on the fact that people OTHER THAN the FO liked Goff. Chew on that a bit. We're all entitled to our opinions, I appreciate that, but to rule this a "bad draft" because the guys who do this for a living like them and you don't seems a little silly as an overall grade. Personally, I'm feeling pretty darn good about it.

 

[vafides]

Can we give this draft class 2 years before we can start judging BB and Pioli's 2008 draft.
None of these players will come in and make an immediate impact. Let's wait until the end of the year at the earliest to figure this out and at the end of next year.

I think the Patriots have drafted well, they are drafting guys who can do their own part of the team to make this work. How many of these huge upside guys who fall to teams on day 2 ever pan out?? These guys no more about football then everyone of us all put together, theres reasons why these guys fall your mock draft from March doesn't talk about.


You guys make me sick. No wonder we are the most hated fans in the world, even our own fans hate each other! This draft is going very well. I love our guys and BB and Pioli obviously do because they dont draft guys that they dont like. And if they like them, I LIKE THEM!

 

[bradmahn]

Let's try this:

Cason/DRC or MJenkins and Groves (a small deal up)

or

Mayo and Wheatley

What combo do you like better?

Considering Mayo showed value to the Patriots and is capable of filling a position that is way more difficult to man for their defense and Wheatley has all the measurables, talent, ball skills, and production (he lacks height and had an injury to his wrist) to say he could be a very good corner, I'd rather have he and Mayo.

Cornerbacks can be found later in the draft (Hobbs, Samuel, Gay, all from last year were selected third round or later), they have not shown a great ability to find quality, contributing linebackers in the latter part of the draft.

A package of two cornerbacks, an ILB, an OLB, a kick returner, back up QB, and a second round pick next year (all of whom have huge upside) is better quality and quantity (ie., value) than any scenario of taking a cornerback high, sacrificing ability to find an ILB, and losing picks to pick the OLB.

 

[LetsGoPats36]

BradytoMoss, you really just don't understand the draft or how it works, do you?

 

[BradyToMoss]

I'm not drinking the kool-aid either since I don't agree with everything done in this draft but how the hell would you be able to get BOTH a top "7" LB AND CB without gmaking your team weaker (significantly!) in other areas since you would of needed to trade up big time (like give up next year's 1 plus ??). And who's stay Wheatley wasn't on their top 7 list??

Kiper & other dingbats are not the kings of scouting rankings that media thinks they are...a lot of 'busts' were declared top 5 in their position in a draft.

I like the 1st 2 round picks. What I don't like is I think they could of done a little bit better with the 1st round trade (get a 2nd instead of a 3rd), QB in the 3rd might of been a reach. I do like the other LB in the 3rd.

Again, like others have asked what would of been YOUR EXACTG draft scenario that should of happened??

Here you go:

DRC/McKelvin at #10
Curtis Lofton (Deal up the 2 and high 3)
Cliff Avril (who we passed on to take O'Connell)
Dan Connor

How does that look ?

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Here you go:

DRC/McKelvin at #10
Curtis Lofton (Deal up the 2 and high 3)
Cliff Avril (who we passed on to take O'Connell)
Dan Connor

How does that look ?

Bad...risky...slow. How's that?

[edit] Avril was off the board when we took O'Connell btw

 

[Lampshade]

Dude, based on what I just said, we're talking about taking McKelvin/DRC at 10 and simply dealing our 2 and high 3 up to get Groves, thus still leaving us our 2 - 3's. Pretty simple.............There's our pass rush and lockdown corner in place for the next 6 years.................Instead we do have stud ILB that isn't going to be an edge rusher and still a very suseptible secondary with no true #1 corner.........

Well you typed Cason, no McKelvin, so I'd get someone else in your war room to fill in the slip!

So if the choice is:

a) McKelvin/DRC + Groves

or

b) Mayo, Wheatley, and either a 2nd next year from SD or Crable

then I'm taking choice b every single time.

ILB is a far bigger need than CB, and even if it weren't I far prefer Mayo to any CB in the draft. As for injury/attitude risk Groves vs Wheatley + 2nd/Crable, well that's a no-brainer, imo.

Who is playing ILB in your scenario?

 

[BradyToMoss]

Bad...risky...slow. How's that?

[edit] Avril was off the board when we took O'Connell btw

WRONG, HE WAS THERE !!!!!!!!

 

[vafides]

When Pioli leaves, lets bring in Mel Kiper as our new GM. you guys are geniuses!!

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

WRONG, HE WAS THERE !!!!!!!!

Uh, wanna check that one more time?

[edit] I'll save you the time, Avril to Lions at 92, we took O'Connell at 94, he was off the board, sorry.

 

[bradmahn]

Here you go:

DRC/McKelvin at #10
Curtis Lofton (Deal up the 2 and high 3)
Cliff Avril (who we passed on to take O'Connell)
Dan Connor

How does that look ?

Avril and Crable are a wash but Crable looks to have more upside.

Few think Connor could even be effective in a 3-4.

I wouldn't want to give up two picks, one of which that was turned into a 2nd next year, for Lofton instead of having Mayo.

The drop off from the "top" corner to Wheatley is not nearly worth the drop off from Mayo to Lofton plus the expense of a high third/future second.

While your draft would have loads of names, I would absolutely not be pleased with any of the value, especially in comparison to what the Patriots actually did.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Uh, wanna check that one more time?

[edit] I'll save you the time, Avril to Lions at 92, we took O'Connell at 94, he was off the board, sorry.

Sorry, I had meant he was there with our 1st - 3 that we turned around a dealt.

Look, what I find funny is that because it's BB and Pioli, no one is allowed to question anything they do, I mean give me a break..........

 

[BradyToMoss]

Avril and Crable are a wash but Crable looks to have more upside.

Few think Connor could even be effective in a 3-4.

I wouldn't want to give up two picks, one of which that was turned into a 2nd next year, for Lofton instead of having Mayo.

The drop off from the "top" corner to Wheatley is not nearly worth the drop off from Mayo to Lofton plus the expense of a high third/future second.

While your draft would have loads of names, I would absolutely not be pleased with any of the value, especially in comparison to what the Patriots actually did.

Fair enough..............thanks

 

[Lampshade]

Sorry, I had meant he was there with our 1st - 3 that we turned around a dealt.

Look, what I find funny is that because it's BB and Pioli, no one is allowed to question anything they do, I mean give me a break..........

You are doing trades with hindsight though.

Assume you picked your corner at #10, at what point would you have traded up for Lofton? Would you have been confident enough to wait til pick #37 to trade up?

By going CB first you're putting all your eggs in the Lofton basket. If someone had taken him at say pick #30 there would be zero fall back plan at ILB.

 

[Zeke_Mowatt]

Sorry, I had meant he was there with our 1st - 3 that we turned around a dealt.

Look, what I find funny is that because it's BB and Pioli, no one is allowed to question anything they do, I mean give me a break..........

Well, we're all allowed to question, but like many, you might want to pay attention to the responses instead of getting defensive...many here have explained why, in their opinions using the fact that the FO drafted them, we did what we did, but you still want to cling to the idea that the FO screwed up. Safe to say, the FO rarely screws up - it happens, but it happens a LOT LESS often than us fans screw up with our opinions of who we should have grabbed. So with that said, it's OK to question, no doubt, but when guys who seem to know a lot more step in and explain the likely logic behind the pick, and then you consider that the best FO in the league actually made the pick, you might want to temper your "opinion" with the very high chance that you are wrong and the professionals weren't. And when you start making silly posts like "bring 5 of us in and we'd do a better job" then you lose all credibility and the attitude of everyone talking to you will change because you sound more like an armchair GM than a fan or even a conscientious dissenter.

 

[Return of the Nizz]

Sorry, I had meant he was there with our 1st - 3 that we turned around a dealt.

Look, what I find funny is that because it's BB and Pioli, no one is allowed to question anything they do, I mean give me a break..........

It's not that no one is allowed to question them, it's that some message board moron claiming that he could do anything football related better than them is laughable.

I would trust the worst NFL GM, aka Matt Millen, a hundred times more than I would trust the guys who make these Draft mags, and a thousand times more than some tard who thinks he's a genius because he reads them. (That would be you.)

 

[bradmahn]

Fair enough..............thanks

No problem.

Some of the later picks are head scratchers, but I think there's a lot of value in what the Pats have done this year when you look at the draft as a whole. We can nitpick each individual selection and quibble over six spots here and five spots there, but the draft as a whole looks pleasing to me. With the exception of some OL help (which really only became a need on Feb. 4 for most and can be addressed with UDFAs and the School of Scarnecchia) I think they've addressed all of the visible or lurking roster issues this year (ILB, OLB, 2 CBs, KR/ST, backup QB). I don't know how you can be completely unhappy with a take like that, but if you have some issues with a couple of the players that's your opinion.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Well, we're all allowed to question, but like many, you might want to pay attention to the responses instead of getting defensive...many here have explained why, in their opinions using the fact that the FO drafted them, we did what we did, but you still want to cling to the idea that the FO screwed up. Safe to say, the FO rarely screws up - it happens, but it happens a LOT LESS often than us fans screw up with our opinions of who we should have grabbed. So with that said, it's OK to question, no doubt, but when guys who seem to know a lot more step in and explain the likely logic behind the pick, and then you consider that the best FO in the league actually made the pick, you might want to temper your "opinion" with the very high chance that you are wrong and the professionals weren't. And when you start making silly posts like "bring 5 of us in and we'd do a better job" then you lose all credibility and the attitude of everyone talking to you will change because you sound more like an armchair GM than a fan or even a conscientious dissenter.

Let me ask you a question. Are you completely happy with how this draft ended up or do you think they could have done better (thus the BB/Pioli FO koolaid)? Be honest here and that's really all I'm doing as a fan is questioning some of the picks given what was on the board, more so in round 3. I think taking a Dan Connor given our LB situation was a given with that 1st - 3 instead of dealing it away to an arch-rival to help them out by giving them the top rated fullback to replacea very important position for them as lead blocker for LT. Taking a player like Wilhite over someone with the potential of Jack Ikegwuonu is something I can question. Obviously 5 of us combined cannot do a better scouting/eval job than the FO, I'm not that stupid, it was a joke if you want to know the truth. But I just feel that BB/Pioli could have done better than what we have so far. Again, just my opinion.