The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

Ivan · Feb 11, 2016

meatface said:
when did he defend Goodell?

When he claimed it was Goodells underlings who were responsible for the sanctions and attacks on the Patriots from the league office. Specifically he said it was " the lawyers at the league office " who were responsible for the sanctions and defamation, and he left Goodell out completely and deliberately.

IllegalContact · Feb 11, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
I disagree. Kraft knew what he was doing. He had 2 separate agendas.
1) What is best for the Patriots
2) The owners maintaining their power over their competition, the NFLPA and the players.

The backroom discussions were the other owners reminding Kraft that an owner challenging the authority of the commissioner weakens 'the 32' because it gives the players more opportunity to challenge him and weakness the strangehold the league has on the NFLPA.

Kraft could have easily demonstrated to the other owners that this was an exception, that they were being penalized for nothing, and that 'the 32' needed to reign in Goodell. If he had done that, then appealed the penalty, citing his own science, 'the 32' could have instructed Goodell to overrule Wells, and find no violation actually occurred.

Kraft chose not to do that, but instead, to stop the rhetoric.

Define 'what is best for the Patriots'

as it pertains to Bob Kraft or the fans? Who would you put first if you were as vested in the team as Bob Kraft? Easy to sit here and spout when you have nothing at stake (relatively speaking)

everything you say is nonsense if there was a sufficient contingent of 'the 32' who wanted ankle-weights placed on the pats ...... which I believe is the case given the Pats have not only been the most successful franchise on the field, but the most successful franchise in every financial aspect. Kraft has used every league trick imaginable to increase the ROI of his investment. No other team comes even close in competing with the Pats in any regard over the last 20 years.......there's probably a sizeable blowback by other owners.......their envy turned hatred is reflected by the fan population around this country.....

all the bashers here assume that what is seen on the surface is all there is.......I'll bet you it isn't

RayClay · Feb 11, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
Do you honestly think there is an owner out there who, if he knew that the Patriots were being punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong, would put up a fight against getting it right?

Are there owners out there who would make up a conspiracy out of whole cloth, then back each other up to prosecute an innocent player/team?

PrairiePat · Feb 11, 2016

meatface said:
when did he defend Goodell?

The Hypocrisy of Robert Kraft

Patsfanin Philly · Feb 11, 2016

archstanton543 said:
But what if you signed an legally binding agreement that says you won't fight back (which is the case here)?

He never signed anything that said he wouldn't appeal. In fact the Chargers appealed a league penalty for the stickum towels and won after initially being fined $20K.
Chargers ultimately prevailed in appeal of towel fine
Kraft waived his right to appeal which is what I described as tacit admission.

Ring 6 · Feb 11, 2016

RayClay said:
Are there owners out there who would make up a conspiracy out of whole cloth, then back each other up to prosecute an innocent player/team?

No, no there are not.

Ring 6 · Feb 11, 2016

IllegalContact said:
Define 'what is best for the Patriots'

as it pertains to Bob Kraft or the fans? Who would you put first if you were as vested in the team as Bob Kraft? Easy to sit here and spout when you have nothing at stake (relatively speaking)

I am speaking about the fan perspective.
I would assume that Kraft is concerned with what is best for his football team.
Please show me how challenging being wrongfully accused and punished by working hard to correct the injustice costs his money, or hurts him or the team.

everything you say is nonsense if there was a sufficient contingent of 'the 32' who wanted ankle-weights placed on the pats

There is nothing to support that. Nothing at all, except a creation of a Kraft apologist to make it seem like he did the right thing.

...... which I believe is the case given the Pats have not only been the most successful franchise on the field, but the most successful franchise in every financial aspect.

Why have they never tried to make up charges and unjustly punish Pittsburgh, SF, Dallas or any other team when they were the leading successes in the league? Its stupid to think that owners of NFL teams decide to make up charges to take draft picks away from one team because they win a lot. That is the same type of thinking that says the Patriots can't win because the games are fixed, but when they won they were a tremendous and clutch team, and Tom Brady is the GOAT because you know, its only fixed when they lose.

Kraft has used every league trick imaginable to increase the ROI of his investment. No other team comes even close in competing with the Pats in any regard over the last 20 years.......there's probably a sizeable blowback by other owners.......their envy turned hatred is reflected by the fan population around this country.....

Simply not true. Jerry Jones is more profitable. Why aren't they taking his picks away?

all the bashers here assume that what is seen on the surface is all there is.......I'll bet you it isn't

It is what it is. He did what he did. Making up excuses is just making up excuses.

ReverendMaynard · Feb 11, 2016

PrairiePat said:
The Hypocrisy of Robert Kraft

Did you read what you linked to? The entire premise of this article is that Kraft is a hypocrite for being upset with Framegate (which the Patriots and Brady are clearly guilty of) because he got off with a slap on the wrist for Spygate and then supported Goodell while he overstepped in his punishments of other teams/players. You couldn't find a better source? Wasn't your point supposed to be that he has defended Goodell since Framegate? There's nothing about that here.

IllegalContact · Feb 11, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
I am speaking about the fan perspective.
I would assume that Kraft is concerned with what is best for his football team.
Please show me how challenging being wrongfully accused and punished by working hard to correct the injustice costs his money, or hurts him or the team.

this is a circular argument...I can suggest you prove to me that his protests cannot hurt him

There is nothing to support that. Nothing at all, except a creation of a Kraft apologist to make it seem like he did the right thing.

There's the same level of support to any point you are trying to make.....it's just anger

Why have they never tried to make up charges and unjustly punish Pittsburgh, SF, Dallas or any other team when they were the leading successes in the league? Its stupid to think that owners of NFL teams decide to make up charges to take draft picks away from one team because they win a lot. That is the same type of thinking that says the Patriots can't win because the games are fixed, but when they won they were a tremendous and clutch team, and Tom Brady is the GOAT because you know, its only fixed when they lose.

Financially, the Pats and the Giants are the only teams in terms of value to have won an SB recently

Simply not true. Jerry Jones is more profitable. Why aren't they taking his picks away?

because they suck....and by the way, the Pats value growth is faster than the cowboys.....it is conceivable that the pats pass the cowboys in the next few years

It is what it is. He did what he did. Making up excuses is just making up excuses.

you are entitled to your equally baseless opinion

to me, motive is the clear leader

that said.......even if Kraft is as you say, I don't give a ****.....I don't root for the owner anyway......regardless, he's the best owner in the NFL

Jlaff · Feb 11, 2016

meatface said:
there is no legal precedent for suing a league over loss draft picks, what legal basis would you use for something like that?

Assuming that to be true, and it probably is, my response would be "exactly..." (if you're going to limit an analysis to a very narrow fact pattern, no one can project an outcome).

But I think it is pretty clearly a contractual dispute generally, but also one that concerns partnership law.

sb1 · Feb 11, 2016

all the bashers here assume that what is seen on the surface is all there is.......I'll bet you it isn't

There's no reason why Kraft couldn't have called his own presser and told the world that he rejects the conclusions that the NFL made, rejects the punishment, that the team is 100% innocent and he will do whatever he can to vindicate Tom. He wouldn't have to threaten to sue or anything, that would have been sufficient. Sure vindication would be extremely difficult but at least he would have backed up his team, spoken loud and clear, and the message would be out there... and there would be at least a little doubt in the minds of the uninformed public who want to believe the Patriots to be guilty.

Instead he (likely naively) did what he did with Goodell and the rest of them arfing and clapping behind him and the perception that the Cheatriots are perpetual cheaters is pretty much set in stone. That is the "asterisk" that people keep talking about and that is on Bob.

Asterisks don't need to be based on anything tangible, perception is enough.

flasox27 · Feb 11, 2016

sb1 said:
I absolutely loathed what Kraft did in May... there really is no excuse for it at all...but I think he understands now that he really screwed up.

Now I don't want the NFL to become the National Gotcha League but part of me really wants to see the Patriots get their "revenge" by blowing the whistle on another high profile team "cheating" just to see how 345 Park Avenue responds to that... a public perception that the Patriots got royally screwed (which is slowly growing already) will go a long way.

The Pats blew the whistle on the Jets tampering with Revis and you saw what happened.

Ring 6 · Feb 11, 2016

IllegalContact said:
this is a circular argument...I can suggest you prove to me that his protests cannot hurt him

Not at all because there is no reasonable argument that objecting to being railroaded could hurt him

There's the same level of support to any point you are trying to make.....it's just anger

Not at all. Each of my points is supported by common sense.

Financially, the Pats and the Giants are the only teams in terms of value to have won an SB recently

Those 2 teams are in the top 1/8th and have won 3 of the last 9, so they are winning almost twice as many as they should. Their 3 represents the share that the top 11 teams should have, so the top value teams are winning more than a normal amount.

because they suck....and by the way, the Pats value growth is faster than the cowboys.....it is conceivable that the pats pass the cowboys in the next few years

But you are arguing its about money

you are entitled to your equally baseless opinion

to me, motive is the clear leader

that said.......even if Kraft is as you say, I don't give a ****.....I don't root for the owner anyway......regardless, he's the best owner in the NFL

Not when he lets this happen without any resistance at all.

flasox27 · Feb 11, 2016

Ivan said:
When he claimed it was Goodells underlings who were responsible for the sanctions and attacks on the Patriots from the league office. Specifically he said it was " the lawyers at the league office " who were responsible for the sanctions and defamation, and he left Goodell out completely and deliberately.

I don't have to post any more. I concur fully with your statements.

IllegalContact · Feb 11, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
Not at all because there is no reasonable argument that objecting to being railroaded could hurt him

No reasonable argument that it couldn't hurt him

Not at all. Each of my points is supported by common sense

More like anger

Those 2 teams are in the top 1/8th and have won 3 of the last 9, so they are winning almost twice as many as they should. Their 3 represents the share that the top 11 teams should have, so the top value teams are winning more than a normal amount.

Nonsense

But you are arguing its about money

No.....I was arguing your perspective is so much less important

Not when he lets this happen without any resistance at all.

You mean resistance you can perceive .....Good to know he doesn't care what you think

RayClay · Feb 11, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
No, no there are not.

Ravens Statement On 'Tipping Off' Colts About Deflategate

Responding to Paolantonio’s claim that Bisciotti, Colts owner Jim Irsay, and other AFC owners have been lobbying Commissioner Roger Goodell to uphold the four-game suspension of Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, Bisciotti says he didn’t try to pressure Goodell.

They're the ones who know it was bulls**t.

Bisciotti denies pressuring Goodell on #DeflateGate

Bob McNair, the owner of the Houston Texans, came out in support of NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell's excessive penalty on the Patriots for DeflateGate.

"Roger's doing a fine job," McNair said via the Houston Chronicle. "A lot of these issues, there's no way you can satisfy everybody. They're complicated, and you try to use your best judgment and do what you think is best for the game. And I think that's what he's trying to do."

DeflateGate: Eleven Teams, Five Owners, Four Coaches, Two Executives Support Roger Goodell's Penalty

http://s2.postimg.org/v8jqndxjd/Capture.jpg

The report suggests that many teams and owners had developed a sort of "jealous...hater" feeling toward the Patriots and urged Goodell to "go hard" after the Patriots over Deflategate. Kraft had threatened legal action against the league in a public forum in May, but ultimately decided against it. It seems part of the reason for Kraft's decision was the lack of support he felt from other owners.

"The one that stunned him the most -- the one that really rocked him -- was John Mara," a "close" friend of Kraft's said, via ESPN. Mara, of course, is the highly-respected president and CEO of the New York Giants. Per the report, Mara signaled to Kraft that he shouldn't move against the league and that the owners were "not there with [Kraft] on this."

For his own part, Mara apparently denies ESPN's account, but league sources indicated to Wickersham and Van Natta that Mara privately thanked Kraft after he announced he would accept the league's punishment.

But Mara, apparently, was not alone in hoping to see the Patriots suffer. From ESPN's report:

"Roger did the right thing -- at last," an owner said after Goodell upheld Patriots quarterback Tom Brady's four-game suspension. "He looks tough -- and that's good."

Another owner said only that he was "pleased" with Goodell's decision, while an executive, said to be close to an owner, indicated his belief that the Pats punishment was "overdue."

New England Patriots RUMORS: NFL Owners Backed Deflategate, Wanted Pats Punished

There's more to the ESPN article there about a number of anonymous owners who consider deflategate a makeup call for "Spygate."

Do you honestly think there is an owner out there who, if he knew that the Patriots were being punished for doing absolutely nothing wrong, would put up a fight against getting it right?

Since the fraudulent Wells report was way back in May I'd have to say, yes to the above.

Ring 6 · Feb 11, 2016

RayClay said:
Ravens Statement On 'Tipping Off' Colts About Deflategate

They're the ones who know it was bulls**t.

Bisciotti denies pressuring Goodell on #DeflateGate

DeflateGate: Eleven Teams, Five Owners, Four Coaches, Two Executives Support Roger Goodell's Penalty

http://s2.postimg.org/v8jqndxjd/Capture.jpg

The report suggests that many teams and owners had developed a sort of "jealous...hater" feeling toward the Patriots and urged Goodell to "go hard" after the Patriots over Deflategate. Kraft had threatened legal action against the league in a public forum in May, but ultimately decided against it. It seems part of the reason for Kraft's decision was the lack of support he felt from other owners.

"The one that stunned him the most -- the one that really rocked him -- was John Mara," a "close" friend of Kraft's said, via ESPN. Mara, of course, is the highly-respected president and CEO of the New York Giants. Per the report, Mara signaled to Kraft that he shouldn't move against the league and that the owners were "not there with [Kraft] on this."

For his own part, Mara apparently denies ESPN's account, but league sources indicated to Wickersham and Van Natta that Mara privately thanked Kraft after he announced he would accept the league's punishment.

But Mara, apparently, was not alone in hoping to see the Patriots suffer. From ESPN's report:

"Roger did the right thing -- at last," an owner said after Goodell upheld Patriots quarterback Tom Brady's four-game suspension. "He looks tough -- and that's good."

Another owner said only that he was "pleased" with Goodell's decision, while an executive, said to be close to an owner, indicated his belief that the Pats punishment was "overdue."

New England Patriots RUMORS: NFL Owners Backed Deflategate, Wanted Pats Punished

There's more to the ESPN article there about a number of anonymous owners who consider deflategate a makeup call for "Spygate."

Since the fraudulent Wells report was way back in May I'd have to say, yes to the above.

Exactly why Kraft should have fought so that the owners would know the facts.
Accepting wells and goodells investigation and conclusion IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY OBJECTION CHALLENGE OR REBUTTAL is reasonable.

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Koma · Feb 11, 2016

flasox27 said:
The Pats blew the whistle on the Jets tampering with Revis and you saw what happened.

And we saw what happened when the Patriots turned the Jets in for tampering with footballs back in 2009.

Actually, we didn't even see that. We only heard about it 6 years after the fact because the incident was buried by the league and never leaked to the media.

It reinforces the point that when the Patriots try to play "Gotcha" with other teams, it's handled completely differently by the league.

IllegalContact · Feb 12, 2016

AndyJohnson said:
Exactly why Kraft should have fought so that the owners would know the facts.
Accepting wells and goodells investigation and conclusion IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY OBJECTION CHALLENGE OR REBUTTAL is reasonable.

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now you're just screaming like the drunk jesus freak on the corner

it doesn't matter what anyone says, it automatically is the exact reason why Kraft should have fought

to a rationally thinking person, it is clear that the manner in which deflategate unfolded was NOT the doings of one person ...... combine that with the charter of the league itself as well as its anit-trust exemption, Kraft really had nowhere to go and that at that time, fighting the fight was pointless to everything but those seeking noise

Ring 6 · Feb 12, 2016

IllegalContact said:
now you're just screaming like the drunk jesus freak on the corner

it doesn't matter what anyone says, it automatically is the exact reason why Kraft should have fought[\quote]
I can't help that you are wrong and keep burying your own argument.

to a rationally thinking person, it is clear that the manner in which deflategate unfolded was NOT the doings of one person ...... combine that with the charter of the league itself as well as its anit-trust exemption, Kraft really had nowhere to go and that at that time, fighting the fight was pointless to everything but those seeking noise

Click to expand...

Kraft had the right to appeal. Kraft had the right to conduct his off study that would prove to goodell that there was no violation. If goodell would not listen he could prove that to his partners and the public as well.
Your argument is paranoid. Kraft had 31 business partners and they are all out to get him and delight in having their league punish one of their own severely for doing nothing.
You should change your screen name to Queeg.

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The more time that goes on, the more I have trouble rooting for Kraft

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