Reminder (Per Reiss): Brady appeal March 3

Appeal in Tom Brady case among biggest questions facing Patriots this offseason

this will go a long way to determine how we do next year obviously. it's the first major hurdle to overcome in the offseason.

what if the decision gets reversed?????? horrible way to begin the offseason

It won't get reversed.

good. plenty of time to get it heard and have the 1st and 4th rd picks returned.

What?

Gronkowski123 said:

what if the decision gets reversed?????? horrible way to begin the offseason

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Most think it won't get reversed but who knows.

F*ck you Roger.

god i don't wanna think about this ******** right now. not one bit. imagine how bad last year would've been if the season ended similarly

Gronkowski123 said:

what if the decision gets reversed?????? horrible way to begin the offseason

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I believe it would go back to Judge Berman unless the court rules it's final (and the NFL has asked them to).

Very unlikely.

Judge Berman did an excellent job with his ruling by basically every legal standard and the NFL can't do anything about that. Nothing can change that fact. Which means Brady is at a HUGE advantage.

I can't handle another offseason of this crap.

sb1 said:

I believe it would go back to Judge Berman unless the court rules it's final (and the NFL has asked them to).

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Right, there's three possibilities :

1) Appeals Ct. upholds Judge Berman and all is good regarding the suspension. It's gone.

2) Appeals Ct. over rules Judge Berman and sends it back to him to rule on the rest. Which drags things out again but Brady likely plays all of next year.

3) Appeals Ct. over rules Judge Berman and throws out the rest too, in which case it's JimmG time Weeks 1-4 next year.

(IANAL so my wording may be wrong but the concepts are correct).

Lets play through the thought exercise. On what grounds can the decision logically be overturned?

VectorPrime said:

Lets play through the thought exercise. On what grounds can the decision logically be overturned?

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Godell: You see judge...... We the NYJFL are worried that the patriots didn't uphold our policy of incest... I mean integrity... Integrity is what I meant

sb1 said:

I believe it would go back to Judge Berman unless the court rules it's final (and the NFL has asked them to).

Very unlikely.

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To be clear, Berman said that the notice finding was sufficient to overturn. For this decision to be "final," the appeals court would have to reverse Berman's ruling and rule on the parts he declined to initially rule on.

If they don't do that, Berman can rule on the remaining issues, and then that can get appealed, too.

Whats going to work mightily against the NFL is that this was their chosen venue. THEY filed the case that Berman ruled on, not Brady. They tried to make a preemptive strike and it blew up in their face. Not to mention the precedent that Goodell always loses court cases because he is always wrong.

Our biggest nightmare would be if they over turned it and Brady had to serve his suspension this year. What then ? Does he have another appeal or would this be a final decision ? I hate all this un certainty.

Unless the roulette wheel gives them a panel of three judges all appointed variously by Reagan or one Bush or the other, all of whom are unfriendly to Labor, there really isn't a serious risk that this will be overturned...but stranger things have happened...

Foxypats said:

Our biggest nightmare would be if they over turned it and Brady had to serve his suspension this year. What then ? Does he have another appeal or would this be a final decision ? I hate all this un certainty.

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he can appeal En Banc to the entire 2nd Circuit, which means all the judges would hear the case instead of a 3 judge panel. I don't think they would take it, so brady's only recourse after that may be the US supreme court.

Foxypats said:

Our biggest nightmare would be if they over turned it and Brady had to serve his suspension this year. What then ? Does he have another appeal or would this be a final decision ? I hate all this un certainty.

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Depends on how exactly it is overturned.

If the 2nd Circuit appellate panel says "We find for the NFL on both the things Berman considered and the things the NFLPA brought up that Berman didn't consider" there are only two things left (both hail marys) that Brady can do:

1. Ask the entire 2nd Circuit to rehear the NFL's appeal en banc. This would be the entire 2nd Circuit circuit hearing the appeal instead of the randomly-selected 3-judge panel. Highly unlikely to be granted.
2. If Brady doesn't get en banc review or if he does and it goes against him, he can ask the US Supreme Court to hear it. Also highly unlikely, though depending on how the 8th Circuit decides the Peterson case there could be a circuit split which could make SCOTUS a little more willing to agree to hear the case.

If the 2nd Circuit panel says "We find for the NFL on the things Berman considered but remand it back to Berman to now consider the things he previously didn't", then it goes back to Berman for another hearing at that level. When Berman issues that decision the loser can appeal that to the 2nd Circuit. And then we're back at the previous paragraph.

^^^

I've heard others say that, but I'm confused how the NFL side is a pro-conservative side.

Brady isn't trying to get any collective/employee benefits -- he's simply trying to hold the NFL up to a normal level of evidence and to try to have an unbiased investigation.

If anything, the NFL side is pro-trade-union as they are the ones who are banding together collectively to cast Brady as a cheater and to limit his employment.

voluntarysaftey said:

^^^

I've heard others say that, but I'm confused how the NFL side is a pro-conservative side.

Brady isn't trying to get any collective/employee benefits -- he's simply trying to hold the NFL up to a normal level of evidence and to try to have an unbiased investigation.

If anything, the NFL side is pro-trade-union as they are the ones who are banding together collectively to cast Brady as a cheater and to limit his employment.

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As an employer, the Owners and Goodell are trying to run roughshod over the negotiated rights of Labor. The argument is not about the facts or evidence (other than in the media).

The argument is about things we have enumerated out here ad nauseam: most importantly "notice" to Brady regarding the punishment, access under oath to Pash who edited the Wells report and other things that I have forgotten about since the summer regarding consistency with the CBA.

The Supreme Court has already held that the facts and evidence are (virtually) irrelevant if Management is following the negotiated contract. Kessler et al argued that they hadn't followed the contract. The other stuff was icing on the cake and pissed Berman off, since he's basically a left-leaning New York lawyer and judge. But, he did not find on that basis.