Chris Barker being waived is the best news I've heard in 3 weeks

50-yard-line said:

At the beginning of the year, the Patriots were doing something pretty remarkable in ROTATING their OL, and doing it without a loss of continuity.

The Seahawks started doing this with their DL a couple of years ago and seemed unstoppable. now they're down on quality DL depth and their vaunted defense, even with the high-paid stars, looks rather pedestrian.

So when the three OL come back, I want to see Stork at guard, Stork at center, Vollmer left and right, Cannon here, Cannon there, Flemming at TE, RT, LT...and on and on.

Keep 'em fresh and keep the other team's DC and DL scratching their heads.

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As time has gone on, rotating OL early in the season by BB looks more and more like a freaking masterstroke.

Also giving Gugs major kudos here as well.

Fixit said:

No, you nailed the Goodell thing, for sure. But the odds were with you, because you just assume that every Jets fan is part of the Illuminati, and I'm pretty sure that Greenberg being a Jew pisses you off even more. You keep threatening bodily harm to Greenberg for what now? Even during D-Gate, the guy said it didn't affect Brady's greatness.

I've put people in ignore for being assholes before, but you're the only one I put on ignore just for being absolutely unhinged.

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That's a pretty ridiculous personal attack on me from someone who's never met me, does not know me on any level and assumes from some visceral posts on a sports message board that I'm a David Duke clone. Put me on ignore. I know you won't remove that post because it is YOU that are the obvious bigot here.While you're at it, label me a racist too for going off on Carter. Scumbag.

Well ultimately we can get back an OL that will look like this. Volmer, Kline, Stork, Mason, Cannon. That is not the best OL we could have had, but it is infinitely better than the one we just won 2 games with and scored 28 points. Plus now we go into games with more seasoned backups like, Jackson, Andrews, and Flemming.

Jackson can be used in an OG rotation like we had earlier in the season. Flemming can be used as a TE like he was in 14, allowing Gronk to be spread wide more. And Andrews can be ready to do his workmanlike role if Stork gets another head owey.

At THAT point the OL ceases to be an impediment to the offense. Josh can concentrate on how to replace Julian's yards, but at least he can have his full playbook open to him.

robertweathers said:

As time has gone on, rotating OL early in the season by BB looks more and more like a freaking masterstroke.

Also giving Gugs major kudos here as well.

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It may very well be the other way around. The extreme rotation isn't something that was done prior to Gugs showing up here. We tend to assume that everything that's innovative comes from BB, but we don't really know the origins of most of it (at least until we see one of those documentaries on the team). In this case, the circumstantial evidence seems to point at Grugs.

It's definitely Guglielmo's influence and precisely WHY BB brought him aboard. BTW, that NFLN special on the 2014 season is the best piece of sports fan candy I've seen in sometime. Gugs comes across as a very confident ,secure man who's very happy where he's at in his coaching life. Future HC material IMO.

IMHO, no way do you swap your starting center for anything other than injury at this point in the season. Put Stork wherever, let him and Andrews have a competition in the off season, but for all the rotations the Pats have had upfront, center has been the constant. It needs to stay that way.

betterthanthealternative said:

It may very well be the other way around. The extreme rotation isn't something that was done prior to Gugs showing up here. We tend to assume that everything that's innovative comes from BB, but we don't really know the origins of most of it (at least until we see one of those documentaries on the team). In this case, the circumstantial evidence seems to point at Grugs.

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I hear you. We do know a couple of things....

In 2001, because Woody was so sucky at shotgun snaps, they flip-flopped Mike Compton to center for those.

There have been a number of instances where guards have played center and center played guard (Connolly, Woody, Wendy)

There have been instances where guards have played tackle (Mankins)

The point is that BB is philosophically positional flip-flopping

What is different this year is BB/Gugs playing these guys as much as possible and not settling on a specific player and giving him all the reps.

With that said- to your point Gugs could have lobbied BB to buy into the notion of playing the rookies in real game situations more sooner as it will a) accelerate their development b) help the coaching and personnel staff determine if they can handle it and c) build depth

patfanken said:

OK that might be a bit hyperbolic, but it IS very good news. Why? Because the Pats wouldn't make that move if they didn't know for certain one or more of the missing OT's are coming back. My guess it's Volmer.

Regardless it will present some questions about what happens to Stork. If Volmer comes back, he'll likely move back to RT and where do you play Stork. I would contend that despite the admirable job David Andrews has done, Stork is the better Center. But who knows what the Pats will do. It's a problem, but at LEAST its a good one for a change

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Vollmer moving back to RT??? Has he not played LT adequately?? I dont want Marcus Cannon in anyway shape or form protecting Brady's blindside. Cannon and Flemming can rotate at RT but please leave Vollmer on the Left if healthy.

I think this thread title is going to hurt Chris Barker's feelings.

By the way, the ranting about Mike Greenberg? Mike Golic? Step the hell off the ledge, @Joker and @robertweathers ...those guys are completely harmless. It's good to have a little crazy on fan boards, but you honestly sound like psychopaths.

Fixit said:

No, you nailed the Goodell thing, for sure. But the odds were with you, because you just assume that every Jets fan is part of the Illuminati, and I'm pretty sure that Greenberg being a Jew pisses you off even more. You keep threatening bodily harm to Greenberg for what now? Even during D-Gate, the guy said it didn't affect Brady's greatness.

I've put people in ignore for being assholes before, but you're the only one I put on ignore just for being absolutely unhinged.

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I don't think your assumption about Joker and Greenberg's heritage is accurate or fair. Joker's been an equal opportunity critic, IMHO. I've got pretty sensitive radar for bigotry and I've not smelled it in his posts (unless his position on Jets fans qualifies...).

And, I think you are missing a lot of the richness of this board if you put him on ignore for being unhinged. Yes, some of the posts make me worry for him, but more of them are actually insightful and take the conversation forward in useful ways. And honestly, the raw emotion sometimes reminds me that I'm editing myself into "reasonableness" too often.

robertweathers said:

With that said- to your point Gugs could have lobbied BB to buy into the notion of playing the rookies in real game situations more sooner as it will a) accelerate their development b) help the coaching and personnel staff determine if they can handle it and c) build depth

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As a student of leadership, I wonder about the relationships and power distribution that BB creates. Would Gugs need to lobby him in order to do this, or does BB give his coaches the room to make these kinds of decisions on their own, without asking for his blessing? Is it a permission thing, or a consultation thing, or what?

but you honestly sound like psychopaths.

sound like??? SOUND LIKE? I resent the implication that I may only be "sounding like"....

aluminum seats said:

I think this thread title is going to hurt Chris Barker's feelings.

By the way, the ranting about Mike Greenberg? Mike Golic? Step the hell off the ledge, @Joker and @robertweathers ...those guys are completely harmless. It's good to a little crazy on fan boards, but you honestly sound like psychopaths.

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Figure of speech. Those two are loathsome people though.

Fixit said:

No, you nailed the Goodell thing, for sure. But the odds were with you, because you just assume that every Jets fan is part of the Illuminati, and I'm pretty sure that Greenberg being a Jew pisses you off even more. You keep threatening bodily harm to Greenberg for what now? Even during D-Gate, the guy said it didn't affect Brady's greatness.

I've put people in ignore for being assholes before, but you're the only one I put on ignore just for being absolutely unhinged.

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anti-Semitic claims out of thin air?.....unhinged?....get thee to a mirror.

robertweathers said:

Figure of speech. Those two are loathsome people though.

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They're incredibly mainstream, mild entertainment figures--their show is just generic sports talk with a comedy element, mostly to be a forum for ESPN figures, some of who are OK, many who aren't. But harmless for sure. Loathsome? C'mon.

betterthanthealternative said:

As a student of leadership, I wonder about the relationships and power distribution that BB creates. Would Gugs need to lobby him in order to do this, or does BB give his coaches the room to make these kinds of decisions on their own, without asking for his blessing? Is it a permission thing, or a consultation thing, or what?

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I think its more of a management philosophy than pure leadership. With that said BB is a strong leader.

As a manager, you want to establish a culture -whatever it is which is governed by an operating framework. I believe that BB establishes operating functions and desired behavior with his coaches with an over-arching mantra. The coach and the players' performance is determined by meeting objectives and successes.

For example, Gugs has the objective of developing young linemen and preparing all linemen for game day. It may not so much be that he "lobbied" BB but Gugs submitted a plan that was the vision that articulated "What is Patriots Offensive Line Success in 2015" and called out, "play rookies in a rotational capacity in the regular season." The benefits are, x,y,z and the steps I will take to ensure success are, 1,2,3. BB apaproved the plan, held him accountable to meet it and he let him do his job

aluminum seats said:

They're incredibly mainstream, mild entertainment figures--their show is just generic sports talk with a comedy element, mostly to be a forum for ESPN figures, some of which who are OK, many who aren't. But harmless for sure. Loathsome? C'mon.

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I hate 'em. They are mouthpieces for the BSPN without a brain between them.

robertweathers said:

I hate 'em. They are mouthpieces for the BSPN without a brain between them.

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Eh, ok. I don't blame individual guys for being at ESPN. You get into sports broadcasting, that's an incredibly sweet gig. To each his own.

50-yard-line said:

The Seahawks started doing this with their DL a couple of years ago and seemed unstoppable.

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FWIW, while rotating OL is a pretty novel concept, rotating DL has been going on for decades. There is nothing particular meaningful about what the Seahawks were doing.

robertweathers said:

I think its more of a management philosophy than pure leadership. With that said BB is a strong leadership.

As a manager, you establish a culture which is governed by an operating framework. I believe that BB establishes operating functions and desired behavior with his coaches with an over-arching mantra. The coach and the players' performance is determined by meeting objectives and successes.

For example, Gugs has the objective of developing young linemen and preparing all linemen for game day. It may not so much be that he "lobbied" BB but Gugs submitted a plan that was the vision that articulated "What is Patriots Offensive Line Success in 2015" and called out, "play rookies in a rotational capacity in the regular season." The benefits are, x,y,z and the steps I will take to ensure success are, 1,2,3

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Googe quite specifically said (in *Do Your Job*?) he was taken by surprise at Mankins being traded. You move on from your best offensive lineman without even discussing it with the position coach? I think that tells you a lot about how BB runs the organization. (But what fan could object?)