NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

SVN said:

Matt Taibbi ‏@mtaibbi 1h1 hour agoJersey City, NJ
When Berman asked Kessler to read Brady's testimony aloud, NFL legal team was collectively looking like, "This can't be happening."

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I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

Patriot Missile said:

Like Stradley said earlier this case is profoundly dumb. I don't want to come off as someone who is comparing this case to murder or other such heinous crimes. But I will anyway. If a murderer was found guilty of killing someone, in the appeal, the next judge found out a person of interest, who he feels was utter of importance to the defense to cross examine and was denied such a right by the prosecution, the case would be overturned and there is a good chance the defendant would walk free.

This whole being denied the right to interview Pash is a huge sticking point it seems.

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We have to be careful. The point is that the NFL* was NOT operating a court of law. So (they argued) Goodell could do whatever he damn-well pleased, so long as he wasn't taking bribes. But clearly Berman isn't buying that. What he WILL insist on in the way of court-like procedures is still anyone's guess. But mine is that this has NOT been a good day for the NFL*.

Patriot Missile said:

NFL made another error. All they had to do from the start besides being honest from the get go was come out and publicly say this was a sting. Admit that this wasn't a independent investigation and be the bully everyone knows they are. Instead they sought public support and now it's coming back to bite them. Then it wouldn't of mattered if Pash edited the report or not. Haha, serves them right for framing them in the first place.

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what the NFL should have done on January 19, 2015 was say, "we've never measured footballs at halftime or at the end of the game so we have no reliable data on whether the football deflated naturally or not. So what we'll do is undertake a study during the 2106 season to see if this is a natural occurrence and if so we'll implement some new rules to deal with it. In the meantime, congratulations to the New England Patriots."

Chiuba E. Obele said:

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Ian should really consider adding Stephanie Stradley to the twitter feed on the site... God, I love the way she dissects the facts !

As Berman's closing statement I would love him to have the following props and then start by saying

He needs a football, a gauge, and a small blast chiller

Hello 9th graders, we will be doing an experiment today.

Carries out PSI experiment.. shouts at Goddell, Vacates Brady.. knocks over his mike and walks out.

QuantumMechanic said:

I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

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It depends on what the judge says the "procedural checkboxes" are. They might go very deep -- for example, requiring Brady's team to have access to full transcripts of everything that was said to Wells in investigation and the right to cross-examine.

Question for the legal folks. If this goes to appeal is it more threatened to be overturned if there are more than one grounds cited of if it is just one ground. In other words is it better to have one really strong for why Badsmells decision was vacated or to have one really strong grounds and several more supporting ones. Would each one of the supporting ones be able to be attacked individually for overturning in appeal?

QuantumMechanic said:

I think that Berman is not allowed to dispute the evidence or Goodell's interpretations of the evidence. So (for example) if Goodell says science doesn't show Brady didn't deflate or even that there's little evidence deflation happened at all, Berman cannot substitute his opinion for Goodell's.

However, I think that Berman is allowed to consider the quality of the evidence and Goodell's interpretations of it for purposes of deciding if Goodell is acting in a sufficiently arbitrary, unfair, biased way.

But I (like many of us, I'm sure!) would love to hear from someone with legal experience re: the Federal Arbitration Act about where the lines are between a judge incorrectly reopening issues of fact and analyzing fairness of process.

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The main issue is the Steve Garvey case. Garvey appealed an arbitration decision and actually showed that there were clear, undeniable errors of fact that were considered in the arbitration decision. Garvey lost, though, because errors of fact were determined to be irrelevant to the court labor case, which was to focus on procedures.

It is a tough precedent.

but Kessler is doing great in showing that we are not discussing mere errors, but obviously biased intent to distort and deceive on the part of persons responsible for the arbitration. A fundamental lack of fairness.

ianal

QuantumMechanic said:

I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

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I don't think you can vacate the award and then have Goodell rehear it when he is the basis of vacatur.
Courts have typically assigned NEUTRAL arbitrators I believe.

If Goodells punishment gets vacated and he tries to just slap on another one the owners will finally have had enough.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 23s23 seconds ago
Right now, there are no more settlement talks planned between NFL and NFLPA until Aug. 31 court appearance, per sources.

SVN said:

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 23s23 seconds ago
Right now, there are no more settlement talks planned between NFL and NFLPA until Aug. 31 court appearance, per sources.

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Good

Patriot Missile said:

Like Stradley said earlier this case is profoundly dumb. I don't want to come off as someone who is comparing this case to murder or other such heinous crimes. But I will anyway. If a murderer was found guilty of killing someone, in the appeal, the next judge found out a person of interest, who he feels was utter of importance to the defense to cross examine and was denied such a right by the prosecution, the case would be overturned and there is a good chance the defendant would walk free.

This whole being denied the right to interview Pash is a huge sticking point it seems.

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It's actually worse than THAT, PM. A better analogy would be if someone was found guilty of murder, and then the Judge found out that the so called victim is alive and well, and the initial "crime" never occurred in the first place.

Unfortunately Berman cannot rule on the efficacy and science of whether the balls were deflated or not. He has to rule on whether the CBA was followed correctly, AND if the appeals procedure itself was conducted fairly. Clearly the latter is a no brainer, but what's more dumbfounding for me, is how that clown college of a league office, managed to violate their own CBA, which is so heavily biased in their favor, they should never have to violated it.

Now that brings me to this question. I'm reading now that "it's been reported" that Brady was willing to accept a one game suspension. Is that more of the NFL leaking BS so that Brady looks like he's guilty of SOMETHING, because he's willing to take a suspension. Or is it actually coming from the Brady camp in order to create some kind of impression that they are trying to comply with his orders to settle this?

Now the latter sounds like a ridiculous strategy. EVERY indication is that the NFL is going to lose this case, why would they want to look weak now. My biggest fear is that Brady will accept a small fine. I don't even want THAT. If he accepts anything, then the NFL will get away with the biggest smear job in their history......AND the Pats will lose those picks for a crime we all know didn't happen.

VectorPrime said:

If Goodells punishment gets vacated and he tries to just slap on another one the owners will finally have had enough.

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This already happened in Bountygate.

Elijah said:

This already happened in Bountygate.

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Bountygate never made the NFL look as bad as they do now.

Brandon_Cox said:

Good

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Sounds like 8/31 is Judgement Day

ChoWZa said:

So the real question is why didn't the NFL let Brady question Pash. What was Pash afraid of being asked, what he edited in the report surely.

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Kessler would have killed it right there if he had to testify.

Why the 31? Why not just next week so its not at the 11th hour?

QuantumMechanic said:

I'm going to put on my Debbie Downer hat again...

Say Berman rules in favor of Brady and vacates the award.

What stops Roger-as-commissioner from re-imposing the same punishment, another appeal happening (this time making sure to hit all the procedural checkboxes, such as having Pash testify) with either Goodell-as-arbitrator or some hand-picked crony acting as arbitrator, and the arbitrator magically happening to uphold the commissioner's punishment?

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I agree with you this is possible. Not handing down a punishment for the same infraction, but just fabricating some other infraction, or just "Brady suspended 4 games for integrity of the game issues" with no specificity or reference to the AFCCG, forcing Brady to go through everything again. There is no accountability for him doing this, the owners seem to love it. Why wouldn't he.