Contracts to deal with

Deus Irae · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
No it isn't.

One wide receiver was a second round draft pick and the other was an undrafted free agent. With your argument, the New England Patriots should not even bother drafting wide receivers.

Yes, it is. As I stated before, if you can't figure out why, you have no business discussing this. And, for the record, Edelman was a 7th round draft pick and former college QB, something you can be sure that I know, so your second sentence is about as idiotic as it gets.

Brady6 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Why bother asking for opinions - and that is all this is - if you're just going to dismiss them?

Look at the list yourself. Austin is a battered player with a lot of wear and tear - he'd be one of maybe 3 on that list below Crabtree I'd consider beside Amendola.

7. Kenny Britt - head case. Ton of talent, but...
8. Cecil Shorts - Yeah, okay, I do like this kid. He isn't coming cheap.
9. Eddie Royal - Not a fan, never was. He's still good, but in the same category at best
10. Nate Washington - will be 32 in August. Nope.
11. Wes Welker - He's dead, Jim! I'd take him as a back-up, but he really should retire.
12. Hakeem Nicks - Meh. Is he a reclamation project? I don't know.
13. Reggie Wayne - He's done.
14. Denarius Moore - he's that tease who never was.
15. Leonard Hankerson - Maybe there's potential.
16. Dwayne Harris - See above.
17. Vincent Brown - See above.
18. Miles Austin - I don't think he's got much left. Always liked him, but he's battered.
19. Jerrel Jernigan - See above.
20. Brandon Lloyd - No thanks.
21. Brad Smith - You're kidding, right?
22. Santana Moss - No thanks.
23. Jason Avant - Meh
24. Marcus Easley - Why?
25. Derek Hagan - Why?
26. Robert Meachem - Done.
27. Greg Salas - Been there, done that.
28. Dane Sanzenbacher - Why?
29. Kevin Ogletree - Why?
30. Darrius Heyward-Bey - a real shame, but no.

So I see 3 (Shorts, Royal and Austin) akin to DA, one (Britt) with a ton of talent but not worth the trouble, and a bunch of guys coming off rookie contracts where their total production about matches Dobson's single year.

Like I said, 7th.

So go ahead, tell me who you'd rather have on that list below Crabtree.

I am not dismissing your opinion; I just think you misunderstand the question at hand. I am not asking you (or anyone else) where they would rank Amendola on the list in terms of whom you would want. I am ask you if we cut Danny Amendola where do you think he would rank on the UFA list for WRs.

The purpose of this is to determine Amendola’s value on the open market. Now consider that Amendola is a one-dimensional player who can really, only play slot WR, he is going to turn 30 years old during next season, he has an extensive injury background and has only played 1 full season since entering the NFL in 2008, and Amendola is not exactly the most physically gifted player. For a reference Brandon LaFell who was only 27, coming of a far more productive season, is multidimensional, great durability throughout his career, and has much more physical talent received the contract you are suggesting Amendola would receive.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

Brady6 said:
I am not dismissing your opinion; I just think you misunderstand the question at hand. I am not asking you (or anyone else) where they would rank Amendola on the list in terms of whom you would want. I am ask you if we cut Danny Amendola where do you think he would rank on the UFA list for WRs.

The purpose of this is to determine Amendola’s value on the open market. Now consider that Amendola is a one-dimensional player who can really, only play slot WR, he is going to turn 30 years old during next season, he has an extensive injury background and has only played 1 full season since entering the NFL in 2008, and Amendola is not exactly the most physically gifted player. For a reference Brandon LaFell who was only 27, coming of a far more productive season, is multidimensional, great durability throughout his career, and has much more physical talent received the contract you are suggesting Amendola would receive.

Well, you asked, "What # do you think Amendola would be on this list?"

7th. If I'm a GM, I put him 7th unless I had a very specific need around him. If I NEEDED an X, I'd move a Britt ahead of him.

3/9, as I've said repeatedly. This is what I expect he will get if he hits the market.

He's not a 1-dimensional player. He can reliably return kicks and punts and consistently ranks out as one of the better blocking WRs in the league, just a few years ago, before his injury string, led the league in all-purpose yards (yes, my mistake earlier), and is clutch (and yes, that matters a lot - give me players who are bigger than the game).

And it's funny, but in this case, the types of injuries DA has gotten only mean he has less wear and tear than many of the others on that list.

If I'm Kubiak, I'm on the phone with DA's agent the day after he leaves the Pats.

So I ask again, who below the top 6 would you rather have? I'm serious and not being snarky here. That's a really ****ty list beyond the first few.

Jimke · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Aaron Dobson is not NFL quality? The same Aaron Dobson that had more yards from scrimmage as a rookie wide receiver (519) than Dan Amendola this past season (200).

I had hoped that the Patriots had ended their cycle of failure when they drafted Dobson. Then
came 2014 and injuries and healthy scratches. I wonder if there is trouble in River City with
regard to his interaction with the coaching staff?

Brady6 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Well, you asked, "What # do you think Amendola would be on this list?"

7th. If I'm a GM, I put him 7th unless I had a very specific need around him. If I NEEDED an X, I'd move a Britt ahead of him.

3/9, as I've said repeatedly. This is what I expect he will get if he hits the market.

He's not a 1-dimensional player. He can reliably return kicks and punts and consistently ranks out as one of the better blocking WRs in the league, just a few years ago, before his injury string, led the league in all-purpose yards (yes, my mistake earlier), and is clutch (and yes, that matters a lot - give me players who are bigger than the game).

And it's funny, but in this case, the types of injuries DA has gotten only mean he has less wear and tear than many of the others on that list.

If I'm Kubiak, I'm on the phone with DA's agent the day after he leaves the Pats.

So I ask again, who below the top 6 would you rather have? I'm serious and not being snarky here. That's a really ****ty list beyond the first few.

Shorts, Royal, Britt, Nicks to name a few. I'm not that high on Amendola in the #3 WR role. In addition, I don't think he ever regained his full explosiveness after the groin injury and I think it is only going to diminish further as he ages. There wasn't much for room for Edelman when Welker was here and there isn't much room for Amendola now with Edelman here. The difference is we paid Edelman short money when he was behind Welker. In 2015 I expect Wright's role to grow, us to add a playmaker or 2 in the draft, maybe Dobson lives up to his rookie promise, all of these things further decrease Amendola's role.

Fencer · Feb 10, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Yes, it is. As I stated before, if you can't figure out why, you have no business discussing this. And, for the record, Edelman was a 7th round draft pick and former college QB, something you can be sure that I know, so your second sentence is about as idiotic as it gets.

Consensus is that the Patriots have had 3 successful WR draft picks in the BB era, and 2 of them were 7th round position conversions. The other 1 was a late 2nd rounder.

If Dobson pans out, then it could be 2 and 2.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

Brady6 said:
Shorts, Royal, Britt, Nicks to name a few. I'm not that high on Amendola in the #3 WR role. In addition, I don't think he ever regained his full explosiveness after the groin injury and I think it is only going to diminish further as he ages. There wasn't much for room for Edelman when Welker was here and there isn't much room for Amendola now with Edelman here. The difference is we paid Edelman short money when he was behind Welker. In 2015 I expect Wright's role to grow, us to add a playmaker or 2 in the draft, maybe Dobson lives up to his rookie promise, all of these things further decrease Amendola's role.

Fair enough - those three are all good. I wouldn't take any on the Pats ahead of Amendola, though, as I believe that he has regained Brady's trust. And we know how tentative that can be!

Fencer · Feb 11, 2015

In a nutshell:

Amendola is paid like a #2 receiver.
His production, demonstrated talent and demonstrated durability don't support much of a case for him to be more than a #3.
On the Patriots he's actually #4.

Paying your #4 like a #3 isn't ridiculous; at least one of the 3 guys ahead of him may fairly frequently be injured. But to further confuse things, Amendola is not even a lock for #4.

Brady6 · Feb 11, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Fair enough - those three are all good. I wouldn't take any on the Pats ahead of Amendola, though, as I believe that he has regained Brady's trust. And we know how tentative that can be!

I would prefer to have Amendola back without a doubt. I am just trying to look at s realistic price. Truthfully I would go draft if Amendola was cut, I'm not high on any of those players either, but if Amendola was cut he would fall someplace in 10-15 range on that list if I was to guess.

50-yard-line · Feb 11, 2015

Brady6 said:
I would prefer to have Amendola back without a doubt. I am just trying to look at s realistic price. Truthfully I would go draft if Amendola was cut, I'm not high on any of those players either, but if Amendola was cut he would fall someplace in 10-15 range on that list if I was to guess.

Well, even if all four of the guys you named were to get bigger contracts (I don't think that will be the case at all), that would put DA around 11.

I'd certainly rather have him than Britt. And I see nothing to make me want Shorts, Royal or Nicks more than him. Nicks brings a little more size, but he's been nothing special at all. And after those guys, the drop-off is enormous. I'll stick with #7.

Bourne Again Christian · Feb 11, 2015

Trade for Justin Hunter, ridiculously talented receiver who hasn't received the coaching nor Quaterback to thrive but has shown glimpses of being special.
His own team has made great Comments about him being a special player and telling their grand kids they got to play with this guy.
I would cough up a fourth without hesitation for him.
The reward is much higher than the risk.

captain stone · Feb 11, 2015

Sorry if the following has already been mentioned, and I don't know where else to put it without starting another thread, but IMO the Pats' off-season business should begin thusly:

Re-structure Revis, Mayo, Wilfork, Amendola;
Re-sign McCourty, Vereen, Gostkowski.

The rest of the UFA period pre-draft would then be gravy.

Jimke · Feb 11, 2015

captain stone said:
Sorry if the following has already been mentioned, and I don't know where else to put it without starting another thread, but IMO the Pats' off-season business should begin thusly:

Re-structure Revis, Mayo, Wilfork, Amendola;
Re-sign McCourty, Vereen, Gostkowski.

The rest of the UFA period pre-draft would then be gravy.

This would be the ideal scenario.

Fencer · Feb 11, 2015

captain stone said:
Sorry if the following has already been mentioned, and I don't know where else to put it without starting another thread, but IMO the Pats' off-season business should begin thusly:

Re-structure Revis, Mayo, Wilfork, Amendola;
Re-sign McCourty, Vereen, Gostkowski.

The rest of the UFA period pre-draft would then be gravy.

Not a bad start, although there's considerable concern as to whether a win-win deal for the Patriots and Amendola could exist.

What you've suggested gives the Patriots a good starting defensive front seven in Collins, Hightower, Mayo, Ninkovich, Chandler Jones, Wilfork and Easley. DT depth is Siliga and Chris Jones. Edge rusher and LB depth is more questionable than that. I.e., without Ayers/Branch/Casillas, it's pretty thin.

And it doesn't give the Patriots a good starting OL, absent an immediate draft success, because Connolly is gone.

captain stone · Feb 11, 2015

If Amendola's recent health/production is a somewhat accurate indicator of his possible future health/production, then a restructure doesn't have to be the major surgery we thought it might
have to be a few months earlier.

Ayers/Branch/Casillas would be nice to keep, but I'm not going to set the pace in a bidding war
for any of them. They were all available for a reason.

Unless Revis & McCourty sign elsewhere, then LG is my #1 draft priority. Joel Bitonio was there
for the taking, but that's water under the bridge. I'd love to sign Clint Boling as a UFA, but his
price tag will be prohibitive. It's time to draft Mankins'/Connolly's replacement, then plug him
and play him, just as Bill did with Mankins a decade ago. Connolly is too expensive and too much
of an injury risk.

mgteich · Feb 11, 2015

captain stone said:
If Amendola's recent health/production is a somewhat accurate indicator of his possible future health/production, then a restructure doesn't have to be the major surgery we thought it might
have to be a few months earlier.

Ayers/Branch/Casillas would be nice to keep, but I'm not going to set the pace in a bidding war
for any of them. They were all available for a reason.

Unless Revis & McCourty sign elsewhere, then LG is my #1 draft priority. Joel Bitonio was there
for the taking, but that's water under the bridge. I'd love to sign Clint Boling as a UFA, but his
price tag will be prohibitive. It's time to draft Mankins'/Connolly's replacement, then plug him
and play him, just as Bill did with Mankins a decade ago. Connolly is too expensive and too much
of an injury risk.

I'm fine with bring in a top draft choice and expectation that he is good enough to start at LG. However, I would still keep Connolly as a backup, yes, an expensive one. For me, the alternative would be a veteran backup who is capable of starting. I can understand that it may be possible for belichick to find someone for this role for about the same cost as Connolly.

captain stone · Feb 11, 2015

Connolly is more than welcome to return, but only at a price closer to the vet minimum than to what
he made the last 3 seasons.

mgteich · Feb 12, 2015

captain stone said:
Connolly is more than welcome to return, but only at a price closer to the vet minimum than to what
he made the last 3 seasons.

We'll see which veteran Belichick brings in at what price. Most of seem to understand that it would be useful for us to have a veteran LG and veteran RG on the 2015 roster. My guess is Connolly and Wendell. It could be someone else other than Connolly. After all, Connolly is a free agent.

Fencer · Feb 12, 2015

mgteich said:
We'll see which veteran Belichick brings in at what price

... and whether he'll retire during training camp.

ATippett56 · Feb 12, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Yes, it is. As I stated before, if you can't figure out why, you have no business discussing this. And, for the record, Edelman was a 7th round draft pick and former college QB, something you can be sure that I know, so your second sentence is about as idiotic as it gets.

A simple reply to your pathetic rant:

"Welcome to the Theatre of the Absurd"

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