Heeree chicki chicki chicki-littles....

The Pats will lose a game or few more.

I will criticize those who play and coach poorly.

BSR said:

A gift card to Arby's. Ian passes them out to those he think "won".

Click to expand...

I've had many a mozza stick on Ian. He's a stand up guy.

Triumph said:

The Pats will lose a game or few more.

I will criticize those who play and coach poorly.

Click to expand...

Cluck, Cluck, Cluck...

james87654 said:

i quoted him and accurately characterized what he said.......take it up with him

im truly sorry that i showed up tonight when you didnt want me to......you should send me to detention for insubordination

Click to expand...

You raised what Gasper said and put it out there for discussion

Ultimately you seemed to make some strong points that the QB shouldn't be expected to be the same type of leader that Gasper expects (a loud Bruschi-esque locker room presence)

I've got your back on this one because if we can't hash out the logic or lack thereof of such reporter assertions here, there's no point in coming around Patsfans -

it was a good discussion - and I think there's widespread agreement that Gasper was WRONG about Brady's leadership skills - but again, if a reporter suggests it, this is a good place to ask others their thoughts

But let's face it - the team looked BAD in KC. Really bad. Was that because a green OL was having a tough time in a very loud and hostile environment? Was that because in this new era of limited pre-season practice the Pats - with a complex O and D - is going to need more time to gel than other teams, but in the long run, with good health, could be stronger say, from December - February?

Possibly all of the above - because they looked damn GOOD at home on Sunday.

But let's not go too crazy bashing those who were asking "what's wrong with this team" - because they honestly looked worse than mediocre after the first four games

JoeSixPat said:

You raised what Gasper said and put it out there for discussion

Ultimately you seemed to make some strong points that the QB shouldn't be expected to be the same type of leader that Gasper expects (a loud Bruschi-esque locker room presence)

I've got your back on this one because if we can't hash out the logic or lack thereof of such reporter assertions here, there's no point in coming around Patsfans -

it was a good discussion - and I think there's widespread agreement that Gasper was WRONG about Brady's leadership skills - but again, if a reporter suggests it, this is a good place to ask others their thoughts

But let's face it - the team looked BAD in KC. Really bad. Was that because a green OL was having a tough time in a very loud and hostile environment? Was that because in this new era of limited pre-season practice the Pats - with a complex O and D - is going to need more time to gel than other teams, but in the long run, with good health, could be stronger say, from December - February?

Possibly all of the above - because they looked damn GOOD at home on Sunday.

But let's not go too crazy bashing those who were asking "what's wrong with this team" - because they honestly looked worse than mediocre after the first four games

Click to expand...

fair enough......i have mixed emotions about brady as a "leader".......i liked his focus and attitude on sunday, though

if he can keep that up, then that will be great

AzPatsFan said:

Cluck, Cluck, Cluck...

Click to expand...

Boo Hoo Hoo

james87654 said:

fair enough......i have mixed emotions about brady as a "leader".......i liked his focus and attitude on sunday, though

if he can keep that up, then that will be great

Click to expand...

You mean other than 3 Super Bowls, 5 AFC Championships, the only QB in history over 100 games over .500, leading teams that had no business being there the Super Bowl's and AFCC game appearances and leading his team to more success than any other during his tenure?

Agree completely., set those aside and I definitely question his leadership.

james87654 said:

fair enough......i have mixed emotions about brady as a "leader".......i liked his focus and attitude on sunday, though

if he can keep that up, then that will be great

Click to expand...

If you want to question his demeanor at times that's fine, questioning his leadership however is flat out bizarre. You gauge leadership by results, especially when the team you have been leading is clearly overmatched at times but you consistently win despite it, Brady has led numerous teams that had no business in AFC Championships or the Super Bowl to those destinations, 2006, 2010, 2013 being prime examples of this, and without him they never would have won the Super Bowls that they have won, so I really have no idea how anyone can question his abilities as a leader, his coaches and those he has played with certainly don't, and if you can find a quote from anyone who has played with him or coached him who claims he is a poor leader I would be really interested to see it.

Brady is a great leader. If one wants to get into the nitpicky semantics about the different types of leaders and the different styles of doing so, go right ahead.

My advice to anyone who would want to do that is - Get a life.

Triumph said:

Boo Hoo Hoo

Click to expand...

Tough night for you on Sunday, i can understand your tears.


Tissue?

Ivan said:

You mean other than 3 Super Bowls, 5 AFC Championships, the only QB in history over 100 games over .500, leading teams that had no business being there the Super Bowl's and AFCC game appearances and leading his team to more success than any other during his tenure?

Agree completely., set those aside and I definitely question his leadership.

Click to expand...

Ivan said:

If you want to question his demeanor at times that's fine, questioning his leadership however is flat out bizarre. You gauge leadership by results, especially when the team you have been leading is clearly overmatched at times but you consistently win despite it, Brady has led numerous teams that had no business in AFC Championships or the Super Bowl to those destinations, 2006, 2010, 2013 being prime examples of this, and without him they never would have won the Super Bowls that they have won, so I really have no idea how anyone can question his abilities as a leader, his coaches and those he has played with certainly don't, and if you can find a quote from anyone who has played with him or coached him who claims he is a poor leader I would be really interested to see it.

Click to expand...

sheesh.......i just said "mixed emotions"

he's had a few marino moments.....those early teams had lots of other veteran leaders....plus BB as the ultimate leader

i should have just said that he's the greatest leader of all time

james87654 said:

i should have just said that he's the greatest leader of all time

Click to expand...

Then you would have been saying something else that seems a little silly.

Bruins29 said:

Then you would have been saying something else that seems a little silly.

Click to expand...

is there any space for nuance and middle ground?......hence, mixed emotions

james87654 said:

is there any space for nuance and middle ground?......hence, mixed emotions

Click to expand...

Yes, so Tom Brady is somewhere between the greatest leader of all time and not a great leader.

We solved it!

Bruins29 said:

Yes, so Tom Brady is somewhere between the greatest leader of all time and not a great leader.

We solved it!

Click to expand...

exactly......hence, mixed emotions......you're catching on

DocHoliday said:

I'm glad you showed up. Just eat your crow.

Click to expand...

The performance surprised me. No doubt about that, but I feel this team is right in the middle of it's last two performances. I don't think either is a 100% reflection of the team. I am sticking with my projection of 7-9. Given the talent on this team, I expect them to be near the .500 mark . Also, despite the number of points put up, Brady still did not seem like old Brady to me. He missed some easy throws again (Edelman out route that should have been picked, several to Gronk,), and he still showed problems with the deep ball (Edelman wide open). The throw to Lafell might have been a quality throw, but we'll never know on that one.

james87654 said:

exactly......hence, mixed emotions......you're catching on

Click to expand...

Having mixed emotions is fine. Having mixed emotions as a substitute for implication of something that is pretty off base is something else.

james87654 said:

exactly......hence, mixed emotions......you're catching on

Click to expand...

And by the way, no need for me to catch on. I am way ahead of you, as are most here.

Bruins29 said:

And by the way, no need for me to catch on. I am way ahead of you, as are most here.

Click to expand...

we shall see......i was one of the first to say that brady wouldn't make it to 2017 here

before the board and the media were talking about it

its easy to argue about abstract things that will never be fully proven one way or another.....its another to have the stones to make concrete predictions.....time will tell

i hope you are still around

just my opinion.....

This is the sort of self-serving thread that reminds me of another one from the 2010 season two weeks before the AFC Divisional game...

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...d/threads/lets-hear-it-for-the-homers.721068/

I kind of wish a mod didn't quickly lock that one as it would have at least made for some entertaining personal insult contests. I imagine it would have went like this...