B6 Camp Notes - Can I have gravy on my crow? Can someone get Boyce a 5 hour energy?

Efstratios · Aug 14, 2014

supafly said:
A bit off topic, but since you brought it up, I think the Wes Welker situation became a huge pissing match between him and Belichick. Just my opinion. Something tells me that even Belichick knew somewhere in the back of his head that it wasn't a great decision, but he was holding firm in the offer and was confident in the team/system.

I'd say that the pygmies did a decent job replicating Welker's production last year. That being said, while Wes was exiting/had exited his prime by the time he left , I still maintain that it was a colossal mistake letting him go to Denver. If it were an NFC team or a middle of the pack team like the Titans, I wouldn't view the situation as a huge blunder, but I think it was pretty foolish of the FO to let him go to their biggest competitor. Yes, they would have had to pay a bit more to keep him, but it would have arguably been worth it if it meant depriving the Broncos of the chance to get better on O.

But what's done is done.

PatFanCraig · Aug 14, 2014

I never get a straight answer to this. I have an idea but not clear definition to what the HE!! Is trolling?

Joker · Aug 14, 2014

troll

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

sounds like an Amendola thread.

Ring 6 · Aug 14, 2014

Brady6 said:
I actually consider it to be and that is not knocking Amendola that is speaking to how much Edelman has developed. I have been to 4 practices and Edelman is playing like an all pro. He has confidence like he belongs and he understands the position a lot better than in prior years. You will be very pleased with what Edelman shows this season. I have been beyond impressed with what I have seen. Amendola and LaFell both have looked good in camp too. The WR group should take a big leap forward this season.

What you think and what is real are not necessarily the same thing.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
What you think and what is real are not necessarily the same thing.

That is true for me, you, and every other poster who uses this board. So I don't actually get your point here. Ask anyone who has attended camp what they think of Edelman they're answer will be consistent with mine I can all but guarantee it.

I am party · Aug 15, 2014

Was curious, so I looked it up. If Amendola gets 100 catches as a Patriot, this is the club he'd be joining:

Source: http://pfref.com/tiny/8t770

Kontradiction · Aug 15, 2014

This is a fine post. I'll go ahead and join you on the "let's not beat a dead horse train" and drop it after this post. Just a couple of things...

Brady6 said:
I will be completely honest and say although we do not see eye to eye all the time, I actually consider you to be one of the best posters on this board, and enjoy what you post so I am not going to continue to beat this dead horse with you and create future animosity.

Much appreciated.

I thought Amendola had a disappointing season for us in 2013, and maybe that was as a result of the groin injury and maybe it was other factors, either way I was not impressed.

Like I said before, I think you'll find that your conversations are more productive about this particular player if you actually take into account that his production was hampered because of injuries. I'm not sure if you're intending to or not but it just comes off as you trying to measure Amendola against Welker and Edelman while one was hampered and the others weren't. Again, I don't think you're going to get as many people disagreeing with you if you criticize Amendola based on the fact that he has never been able to remain healthy and, because of that, his production last year and his perceived production going forward will probably not meet his contract.

I thought he did OK. I hate when people blindly make excuses for a player just because they like the player for whatever reason and I feel like many do that for Amendola, I feel like part of it has to do with an unwillingness to admit that maybe Amendola over Welker was not a great idea and by saying Amendola was not impressive in 2013 you are essentially admitting that. The other thing about Amendola is he is sort of like a girl you go out drinking with have a great time and think the night is going to end in bed but then she suddenly becomes ill, you want to see her again because you always think the next time is going to be different, so you hang on and hold out hope.

1. I don't disagree with you. I think he could have been better if he hadn't been injured but, in all, I was never for Amendola over Welker. Not only is Welker the better slot receiver but he's also been able to remain more healthy over his career than Amendola has. If you want further proof, look no further than my sig.

2. Interesting take in the last sentence.

As far as him catching 100 balls and having 1000 yards it is very unlikely, maybe I should not have said “not ever” because anything is possible but he has consistently been a 60-80 catch, 600-700 yard receiver in his 5 year career, and now he plays on a team with a player like Edelman who no matter where he lines up runs similar routes and plays a similar brand of football, LaFell who also plays a similar game, Dobson and Thompkins emerging in their second seasons, Gronkowski the all world TE returning intent to play the entire season, and Vereen a player who had nearly 50 catches in 8 games last season. I expect Amendola to catch 55-65 balls for 600-700 yards and 2-3 touchdowns, and i think that is perfectly fine, he will have 3-4 huge games that he will impact the outcome of positively and he will help the offense overall. That in my opinion is a reasonable expectation, if you want to expect more be my guest but I am not going to agree with you, I do not think Amendola was 54% of the player he normally is last season so I do not think he is going to have 100 catches after just 54 in 2013. In addition I actually think Edelman is going to be an even better player this season and see the most targets of any WR, and Dobson is going to make a huge leap this season and have himself 900-1000 yard receiving season on the outside.

This is more reasonable. My original point of contention was you saying that it will never happen when there are many ways where it conceivably could. As I said in my second post, I also hope it doesn't happen. Not because he gets injured again but because Brady ends up spreading the ball around and all of the WR's are contributing.

Zeus · Aug 15, 2014

Neither Wes Welker nor Julian Edelman had had a 100 catch/1000 yard season - until they did. I don't know whether a healthy Amendola could do this or not, but I really don't think that matters.

My only concern is that the team wins 12+ games and secures the #1 (okay I'd settle for #2) playoff seed. If they do that, the stats of the individual players are of no interest to me at all.

Danger Zone · Aug 15, 2014

Let me add to the conversation.

Should I ever need someone to catch 5 footballs with a nifty little soccer move, Ill take Amendola over Edleman.

Ring 6 · Aug 15, 2014

Brady6 said:
That is true for me, you, and every other poster who uses this board. So I don't actually get your point here. Ask anyone who has attended camp what they think of Edelman they're answer will be consistent with mine I can all but guarantee it.

Why it is different is that you are speaking in absolutes. And you have a bias.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

AndyJohnson said:
Why it is different is that you are speaking in absolutes. And you have a bias.

I have a biased? I am saying that a player that who is 1 of 3 Patriots ever to have 100 catch and 1000 yards in a season is better than a player who has never broke 700 receiving yards in any of his 6 NFL seasons. If anyone is showing a biased here it is you. You and the others who undervalue what Julian Edelman did last season as if he did not have an amazing season and it could easily be achieved by Amendola apparently have a hard time getting past Edelman starting his career as a backup ST player and are unwilling to give him his due. Edelman is the better player, if Amendola goes out and outperforms him than it will become a debate, but right now it is not debatable, because you are basing your belief on potential and hope.

I am speaking in absolutes because at this time you have absolutely nothing to support Amendola being better than Edelman, nothing at all. Until you do I can speak in absolutes.

Zeus · Aug 15, 2014

The question for Edelman is - will he be a consistent performer at the level he played at last year or will he be a one-hit wonder? I like him as a player and he's having a strong camp but no one have ever made the pro bowl in August. As I said above, I'd be much happier with the team having a strong season than any particular player putting up big numbers.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

KontradictioN said:
This is a fine post. I'll go ahead and join you on the "let's not beat a dead horse train" and drop it after this post. Just a couple of things...

Much appreciated.

Like I said before, I think you'll find that your conversations are more productive about this particular player if you actually take into account that his production was hampered because of injuries. I'm not sure if you're intending to or not but it just comes off as you trying to measure Amendola against Welker and Edelman while one was hampered and the others weren't. Again, I don't think you're going to get as many people disagreeing with you if you criticize Amendola based on the fact that he has never been able to remain healthy and, because of that, his production last year and his perceived production going forward will probably not meet his contract.

1. I don't disagree with you. I think he could have been better if he hadn't been injured but, in all, I was never for Amendola over Welker. Not only is Welker the better slot receiver but he's also been able to remain more healthy over his career than Amendola has. If you want further proof, look no further than my sig.

2. Interesting take in the last sentence.

This is more reasonable. My original point of contention was you saying that it will never happen when there are many ways where it conceivably could. As I said in my second post, I also hope it doesn't happen. Not because he gets injured again but because Brady ends up spreading the ball around and all of the WR's are contributing.

I will say Amendola in camp is significantly more explosive than he was last season. I am interested to see how that translates in a game, but if it does carry through then the share presence of an explosive Amendola will be a benefit to the team. Combine that with Edelman underneath, LaFell running the routes Hernandez used to run, Dobson as a big physical X-WR, and of course Gronkowski commanding the focus of the defense and I think we have potential to be the best offense this team has had since 2007.

Overall I am looking for Amendola and Edelman to do more with less this season, I want to see them catch 70% of the balls thrown their way, and have a yards per catch average of around 11-12 yards. I think their roles need to focus on being efficient.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

Zeus said:
The question for Edelman is - will he be a consistent performer at the level he played at last year or will he be a one-hit wonder? I like him as a player and he's having a strong camp but no one have ever made the pro bowl in August. As I said above, I'd be much happier with the team having a strong season than any particular player putting up big numbers.

Edelman has always made the most of his opportunities, he was behind Welker and others early in his career but he excelled as a punt returner. Last season he got a shot and he showed everyone what he is capable of. As the season progressed Edelman developed, over the final 8 games he played he had 69 catches, 729 yards, and 5 touchdowns, each week he became a better receiver. He put in the work, won an offseason award, has had a spectacular camp, and I expect him to build on his success in 2014. He may not have as many catches or yards because the offense will have more weapons but I expect him to be great just the same.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

PatFanCraig said:
I never get a straight answer to this. I have an idea but not clear definition to what the HE!! Is trolling?

The word troll is thrown around on this board more than any other word, most times the person is not even trolling they are just saying something that others might not agree with so they get called a troll.

Joker referred to an Amendola thread based on things being said that people do not like or agree with about Amendola, but it is not actually trolling, I say what I say about Amendola when I do because it is actually my opinion, I do not say it with the intent to create conflict. I actually think the reaction to what I say is ridiculous and unnecessary and I would prefer if it did not occur. The problem is people have a lack of respect for others opinions, some feel that if a poster says something that they do not agree with they are empowered to attack that poster, that is a narcissistic outlook. A good example of trolling would be a poster calling some sybill6, see that is intended to provoke a confrontational response, or coming into a thread to post one liners that do not even pertain to football or the subject at hand. Saying your opinion because that is what you genuinely believe is not trolling. Do not be confused by those attempting to deflect their behavior.

Zeus · Aug 15, 2014

Brady6 said:
Edelman has always made the most of his opportunities, he was behind Welker and others early in his career but he excelled as a punt returner. Last season he got a shot and he showed everyone what he is capable of. As the season progressed Edelman developed, over the final 8 games he played he had 69 catches, 729 yards, and 5 touchdowns, each week he became a better receiver. He put in the work, won an offseason award, has had a spectacular camp, and I expect him to build on his success in 2014. He may not have as many catches or yards because the offense will have more weapons but I expect him to be great just the same.

Hope you're right. But realistically, he's not "significantly more explosive than last year." He's the same determined guy playing with the same fire, and he'd do well to achieve 80% of the production he had in what can only be regarded as a career year to date.

PatFanKen alluded to the desirability for balance in an earlier post and I think you did too above.

The presence (we hope) of Gronk, LaFell and Dobson will mean less touches for Edelman. Should Amendola have the unusual fortune of good health, then even less for Julian. That's a good thing, not a bad one. Toss in Vereen and White, and you've given defenses a lot to think about .

No superstars, but a lot of guys that can really hurt you. The diversity of weapons plays to Tom Brady's strengths.

RayClay · Aug 15, 2014

I am party said:
Was curious, so I looked it up. If Amendola gets 100 catches as a Patriot, this is the club he'd be joining:

Source: http://pfref.com/tiny/8t770

Cool that you can do that on PF ref.

Brady6 · Aug 15, 2014

Zeus said:
Hope you're right. But realistically, he's not "significantly more explosive than last year." He's the same determined guy playing with the same fire, and he'd do well to achieve 80% of the production he had in what can only be regarded as a career year to date.

PatFanKen alluded to the desirability for balance in an earlier post and I think you did too above.

The presence (we hope) of Gronk, LaFell and Dobson will mean less touches for Edelman. Should Amendola have the unusual fortune of good health, then even less for Julian. That's a good thing, not a bad one. Toss in Vereen and White, and you've given defenses a lot to think about .

No superstars, but a lot of guys that can really hurt you. The diversity of weapons plays to Tom Brady's strengths.

Just to be clear I said Edelman was better and playing with more confidence. Amendola is the player I said looked significantly more explosive in camp than what I saw on the field.

Kontradiction · Aug 15, 2014

Zeus said:
Hope you're right. But realistically, he's not "significantly more explosive than last year." He's the same determined guy playing with the same fire, and he'd do well to achieve 80% of the production he had in what can only be regarded as a career year to date.

PatFanKen alluded to the desirability for balance in an earlier post and I think you did too above.

The presence (we hope) of Gronk, LaFell and Dobson will mean less touches for Edelman. Should Amendola have the unusual fortune of good health, then even less for Julian. That's a good thing, not a bad one. Toss in Vereen and White, and you've given defenses a lot to think about .

No superstars, but a lot of guys that can really hurt you. The diversity of weapons plays to Tom Brady's strengths.

Lester... have you been a bad boy?

Zeus · Aug 15, 2014

KontradictioN said:
Lester... have you been a bad boy?

There are no saints in the animal kingdom. Only breakfast and dinner.

B6 Camp Notes - Can I have gravy on my crow? Can someone get Boyce a 5 hour energy?

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