NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)

ctpatsfan77 · Mar 4, 2012

PatsWickedPissah said:
Yup.
The focus will be in Williams.
Saints team will get off lightly considering Bounty for player KO >>> Breaking camera placement rules

I don't think so, for one main reason: Goodell's ego.

(1) He likes to send messages. And this contradicts his stated goal of making the game safer (and makes it harder for him to achieve his goal of 18 regular-season games).
(2) He hates being lied to. And it appears that at least one person in the Saints organization was lying to him.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 4, 2012

ctpatsfan77 said:
I don't think so, for one main reason: Goodell's ego.

(1) He likes to send messages. And this contradicts his stated goal of making the game safer (and makes it harder for him to achieve his goal of 18 regular-season games).
(2) He hates being lied to. And it appears that at least one person in the Saints organization was lying to him.

And as i'd said Goodell will punish that liar (the GM) harshly.

The Saints org? Not so much given Bounty (player safety) >>> prohibited video placement

Deus Irae · Mar 4, 2012

Having read a little, but probably not enough, on the subject, I've gotten the impression that Williams (suspension/ban) and Loomis (fine/possible suspension) are screwed, Payton (fine) will get some attention, the team will lose a lot of money, and draft picks (plural) will be lost.

I expect, based upon what I've read, that the punishment will be much more severe than what was doled out in spygate.

ScottishPat · Mar 4, 2012

Don't know if it's been said (there's been about 50 new pages since I last checked) but does Bernard Pollard have a bounty if he injures our players ?

Joker · Mar 4, 2012

ScottishPat said:
Don't know if it's been said (there's been about 50 new pages since I last checked) but does Bernard Pollard have a bounty if he injures our players ?

It's very satisfying to see that Pats fans think alike, even though separated by an ocean or continent. Since this story broke and mushroomed the persistent thought in the back of my mind has been "Bernard Pollard", repeating like a signal beacon. It would seem reasonable that if a team is going to have a bounty system, then they would have a designated bounty hunter...and there is no bigger "Dead Or Alive" candidate than Bernard Pollard, outside of my avatar of course.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 4, 2012

Deus Irae said:
Having read a little, but probably not enough, on the subject, I've gotten the impression that Williams (suspension/ban) and Loomis (fine/possible suspension) are screwed, Payton (fine) will get some attention, the team will lose a lot of money, and draft picks (plural) will be lost.

I expect, based upon what I've read, that the punishment will be much more severe than what was doled out in spygate.

If as you wondered, Goodell has learned from past mistakes, this will be so. I'm more cynical. The big problem for the league could be a blizzard of player lawsuits.

Deus Irae · Mar 4, 2012

PatsWickedPissah said:
If as you wondered, Goodell has learned from past mistakes, this will be so. I'm more cynical. The big problem for the league could be a blizzard of player lawsuits.

I hear what you're saying. I'm just reading the tea leaves. Goodell has a penchant for overreacting with punishments, he feels he was deliberately lied to by multiple people, and I we've got admissions about bounties for QBs in playoff games. And we know how much Goodell wants to protect the QBs.

I could end up being completely wrong on this. After all, it is Goodell.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 4, 2012

Fisher, Gregg Williams, the Tennessee Titans and the 2007 game versus the San Diego Chargers in which Shawne Merriman was injured from which he has never really recovered. Merriman has been convinced since then that Fisher and Williams paid a bounty to Titans offensive linemen to injure him after he had hit QB Vince Young. The NFL did issue fines, although the story stopped there. Merriman has been wicked pissed at Fisher and Williams ever since.

This is huge but I can't see Goodell letting this scandal spread to include Fischer, a league untouchable and perennial member of the NFL's Competition Committee.

Merriman questions why bounty is news now - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

DaBruinz · Mar 4, 2012

PatsWickedPissah said:
Fisher, Gregg Williams, the Tennessee Titans and the 2007 game versus the San Diego Chargers in which Shawne Merriman was injured from which he has never really recovered. Merriman has been convinced since then that Fisher and Williams paid a bounty to Titans offensive linemen to injure him after he had hit QB Vince Young. The NFL did issue fines, although the story stopped there. Merriman has been wicked pissed at Fisher and Williams ever since.

This is huge but I can't see Goodell letting this scandal spread to include Fischer, a league untouchable and perennial member of the NFL's Competition Committee.

Merriman questions why bounty is news now - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Goodell may not have a choice. It's already come out that there were bounty systems in every other stop that Williams has made so I would not be surprised if the Titans also get rolled up in this.

There are a LOT of teams that are going to get punished. Particularly if it is found that Williams put his own money in to start the pots at each location. Then you have salary cap violations at each place. Which means that those teams are all looking at loss of draft picks, which has been the standard for previous violations.

And with Williams having admitted and apologized for it already, he's damned.

The Rams are probably going to be in the market for a new DC already. If Fisher is implicated, then they will need a new HC as well.

This scandal is not going to go away. It's probably the biggest scandal to rock the NFL since the 49ers Sal Cap violations and it is much more wide reaching because of the locales that Williams has been in.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 4, 2012

If all these teams cited, NO, Buffalo, Washington, Tenn and whoever else pops up in the next weeks lose draft picks, the Pats could have some unexpected talented players fall to them in the draft's 1st 3 rounds.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Joker · Mar 4, 2012

PatsWickedPissah said:
If all these teams cited, NO, Buffalo, Washington, Tenn and whoever else pops up in the next weeks lose draft picks, the Pats could have some unexpected talented players fall to them in the draft's 1st 3 rounds.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Goodell would never allow such a thing to happen...he'll probably come up with "any team I've sanctioned for "spying" will not be allowed to benefit from Bounty Gate...signed, Captain Roger Bligh..."...

ctpatsfan77 · Mar 4, 2012

Joker said:
Goodell would never allow such a thing to happen...he'll probably come up with "any team I've sanctioned for "spying" will not be allowed to benefit from Bounty Gate...signed, Captain Roger Bligh..."...

Then he'll be hoisted by his own petard, since he's already said that the 2007 penalties were for the "sum total" of known videotaping, and that there would have to be new, unreleased evidence to warrant further punishment.

DaBruinz · Mar 4, 2012

Joker said:
Goodell would never allow such a thing to happen...he'll probably come up with "any team I've sanctioned for "spying" will not be allowed to benefit from Bounty Gate...signed, Captain Roger Bligh..."...

No offense, Joker, but this sort of thinking is BS.. Goodell made be have put on the tough guy figure and it ended up backing himself into a corner, but the reality is that he punished the Pats and hasn't done anything against them since.

JoeSixPat · Mar 4, 2012

This whole bounty-gate thing is really much ado about nothing.

Aside from cheating the salary cap in a way that actively places the health and welfare of NFL players at risk to gain a competitive advantage, there's nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

Now, if we should find out that their signal filming cameras were on the sidelines and not in the stands as the NFL allows, they should absolutely lose a 1st round pick.

jmt57 · Mar 4, 2012

MoLewisrocks said:
Using the media as a source in an instance where the devil is in the details was your first mistake. There was for a long time a sticky thread here that explained and debunked many of the misconceptions and misperceptions about the rules on videotaping, but apparently Ian thought we were past needing it since it's no longer there. Perhaps a kind mod could post a link or PM you one so you could read up on a subject the media did a piss poor job of researching due to being caught up in a group think mentality at the time and not since wanting to appear to be NEP homers or apologists...

John Tomase had 2 (count 'em) sources who assured him that there was a tape in existence that was filmed at the Rams walkthrough practice before Super Bowl XXXVI. Only it turns out there never was. 3-4 days ago national mediots who are supposed to be insiders were insisting they had multiple sources who confirmed Peyton Manning was in Miami throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne. Turns out he'd been in NC at Duke all week working with his former OC and some other Colt soon to be FA's. Someone from this site had to correct Greg Bedard the other day for reporting that the franchise tag doesn't count against the cap until a player signs it. Mediots make lousy sources. Half the time they are just regurgitating group speak or think or making up answers as they go because people expect them to have them and they don't want to disappoint their followers... They seldom acknowledge their mistakes because even if they do they realize the damage is already done. Most people tend to believe the first thing they hear and become functionally deaf to factual evidence to the contrary thereafter. Which is why it's often so difficult for the system to find impartial or untainted jurors these days.

Here is the thread that you were referring to that had been stickied at the top of this forum for a while on the subject.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ntral-resource-refute-cameragate-baloney.html

BradyFTW! · Mar 4, 2012

MoLewisrocks said:
Using the media as a source in an instance where the devil is in the details was your first mistake. There was for a long time a sticky thread here that explained and debunked many of the misconceptions and misperceptions about the rules on videotaping, but apparently Ian thought we were past needing it since it's no longer there. Perhaps a kind mod could post a link or PM you one so you could read up on a subject the media did a piss poor job of researching due to being caught up in a group think mentality at the time and not since wanting to appear to be NEP homers or apologists...

John Tomase had 2 (count 'em) sources who assured him that there was a tape in existence that was filmed at the Rams walkthrough practice before Super Bowl XXXVI. Only it turns out there never was. 3-4 days ago national mediots who are supposed to be insiders were insisting they had multiple sources who confirmed Peyton Manning was in Miami throwing the ball to Reggie Wayne. Turns out he'd been in NC at Duke all week working with his former OC and some other Colt soon to be FA's. Someone from this site had to correct Greg Bedard the other day for reporting that the franchise tag doesn't count against the cap until a player signs it. Mediots make lousy sources. Half the time they are just regurgitating group speak or think or making up answers as they go because people expect them to have them and they don't want to disappoint their followers... They seldom acknowledge their mistakes because even if they do they realize the damage is already done. Most people tend to believe the first thing they hear and become functionally deaf to factual evidence to the contrary thereafter. Which is why it's often so difficult for the system to find impartial or untainted jurors these days.

I think this may be the thread that you're referring to?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...ntral-resource-refute-cameragate-baloney.html

And for anyone who doubts that "spying" was a leaguewide issue, go ahead and read up here: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...immy-johnson-helps-frame-things-properly.html

DaBruinz · Mar 4, 2012

Getting back to the fines and penalties and such.

1) Payton can only be fined $500K. I know people want more, but that is what the rules say the maximum amount that he can be fined

2) Williams, besides a suspension, could be looking at fines for each instance that he conducted the bounty programs. We know about Washington, Buffalo and New Orleans. So he could be facing 1.5 mill (or more) in fines. That is if the league is allowed to fine for each instance.

3) I don't know what the Saints can be fined, but I would expect it to be significant since Loomis lied, not only to Benson, but to Goodell as well.

4) As I have stated previously, I expect Williams to be tossed from the NFL and I expect him to be facing numerous lawsuits from players claiming to have been hurt due to said bounty system.

5) I'm not sure what Vilma can be fined for his partaking in the bounty system, but as others mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised to see him suspended for the year.

It will be interesting to see how the league handles the Saints defensive players who haven't been named outright.

VJCPatriot · Mar 4, 2012

Re: Breaking: Saints Break Bounty Rule

#56300ex said:
Ha, exactly. I envision it going like this.

*in meeting*

Goodell to Saints, "Did you learn your cheating ways from the Patriots?"

Saints, "Uh, no"

Goodell asks again very sternly, "DID YOU LEARN THIS FROM THE PATRIOTS?"

Saints, "Uh ......yeah actually we did."

Goodell, "Ok, thanks for coming in, we'll take it from here"

*Picks up direct line to Foxboro*

LOL. Funny but true! We're somehow going to lose pick #27 aren't we?

the Patriot · Mar 4, 2012

If former Rams players brought lawsuits against the NFL, because there was an unfounded rumor that the Patriots filmed the Rams' walkthrough, then I should expect lawsuits to emerge from this.

That puts the NFL in legal trouble, especially when they supposedly have proof of all this. In the real world (the one outside Goodell's justice league), accepting payment to injure/maim somebody is called battery, and the NFL waivers don't negate this.

Saints are lucky this guy pulled this crap on other teams, because Goodell would have thrown them under the bus. This goober coordinator is toast though.

ctpatsfan77 · Mar 4, 2012

Re: Breaking: Saints Break Bounty Rule

VJCPatriot said:
LOL. Funny but true! We're somehow going to lose pick #27 aren't we?

As I've said twice, I think, in this thread: Goodell does not have the authority to undo completed trades; it would effectively require changing contracts from previous years, which the CBA expressly prohibits.

Remember that he said that the NFL could not take the Niners' pick away from NE.

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