I'm not feeling very confident, reassure me.

I have a suspicion that if we win, Gronk will be Super Bowl MVP. And his performance will have gone down as legendary on a banged up ankle.

mb6592 said:

You're right, this Giants defense is better. If it makes people feel good to pretend otherwise, so be it. But, stop the BS of belittling those who are taking a more honest approach. So if you must, please go on pretending that the front seven of Jason Pierre-Paul (16 1/2 sacks), Osi Umenyiora (who returned last week), (a finally healthy) Justin Tuck, Mathias Kiwanuka, Chris Canty, Michael Boley, and Jimmy Kennedy isn't a top three front seven. I, and most others, will know otherwise, and it will make the hoped for win all the more sweet.

P.S. It's really comical how some are ready to throw out the stats when it comes to a very average Patriots defense (i.e. yards don't matter). But a real big time defense like the Giants? Well, they suck - the stats say so.

Click to expand...

Stop, just stop.

Regular Season:
Balt: 12-4, 16.6 PPG allowed (3rd), YPP allowed 17.4 (11th)
NYG: 9-7, 25 PPG allowed (25th), YPP allowed 15.9 (14th)
Pats: 13-3, 21.4 PPG allowed (15th) YPP allowed 19.4 (2nd)

The teams overall YPP rankings:
Reg. Sea. ///// Last 3
Balt: 3.0 (4th) 3.7 (8th)
NYG: 0.4 (14th) 9.7 (2nd)
Pats: 6.2 (2nd) 9.4 (3rd)

*If you are not familiar with overall YPP rankings (Yards per point, offensive subtracted from defensive), just look at this: Since '95, the Superbowl teams with the higher YPP ranking in the regular season are 12-3-1 (1 tie was '04 when the Pats and Eagles had the same rank (same point value) and of course the game came down to a winning FG with time expiring...)

Bellow is copied from another post (ianvamp, very awesome breakdown).
"The next week and a half we'll hear a TON about defenses (especially the Giants') getting after the QB. Let's see just how effective each team has been the last 5 games of the season (which is the Giants' win streak):

NYG
at NYJ: NYG: 5 sacks, 7 TFL, 6 QB hits; NYJ: 2 sacks, 7 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Dal: NYG: 6 sacks, 7 TFL, 7 QB hits; Dal: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits
vs Atl: NYG: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits; Atl: 1 sack, 6 TFL, 5 QB hits
at GB: NYG: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 5 QB hits; GB: 1 sack, 6 TFL, 7 QB hits
at SF: NYG: 3 sacks, 5 TFL, 6 QB hits; SF: 6 sacks, 5 TFL, 12 QB hits

TOTALS:
NYG: 20 sacks, 28 TFL, 31 QB hits
Opp: 12 sacks, 29 TFL, 34 QB hits

NE
at Den: NE: 4 sacks, 5 TFL, 4 QB hits; Den: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Mia: NE: 5 sacks, 6 TFL, 8 QB hits; Mia: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 8 QB hits
vs Buf: NE: 2 sacks, 3 TFL, 4 QB hits; Buf: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Den: NE: 5 sacks, 10 TFL, 8 QB hits; Den: 0 sacks, 1 TFL, 2 QB hits
vs Bal: NE: 3 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits; Bal: 1 sack, 2 TFL, 3 QB hits

TOTALS:
NE: 19 sacks, 29 TFL, 31 QB hits
Opp: 11 sacks, 16 TFL, 19 QB hits

So even though the Pats lost Andre Carter (all-pro, team sack leader), and even though the Giants' D-line is playing out of its mind, during each team's last 5 games, the Giants and Patriots have gotten almost the same exact amount of pressure on the opposing QB. However, the Pats' O-line has yielded far fewer tackles for loss and QB hits than the Giants' O-line has.

Granted, a lot of that was the Giants facing the 49ers, but hey, the Pats had to face a bunch of good sack teams too. Here's where their opponents ranked in terms of sacks:

NYG
NYJ: t17th (35)
Dal: t7th (42)
Atl: t19th (33)
GB: t27th (29)
SF: t7th (42)
AVG: 15.4th (36.2)

NE
Den: t10th (41)
Mia: t10th (41)
Buf: t27th (29)
Den: t10th (41)
Bal: t3rd (48)
AVG: 12th (40.0)

So the Pats' OL yielded less pressure than the Giants' OL did over the last 5 games, despite the Pats facing teams that were better at putting pressure on and getting into the backfield.

In conclusion, as good as the Giants have been at putting pressure on the QB during their awesome 5-game stretch, the Pats have been *JUST AS GOOD* over that same period of time; moreover, the Pats' OLine has been significantly better, especially given the caliber of defenses they've faced over that five game stretch, at keeping opposing pressure at bay."

People throw out the regular season for the Giants claiming their are now a completely different team, yet want to look at the Pats defense during the regular season. Are you really about to say that the Pats defense hasn't improved? Really? Give me a break. Hell, just watch the Pats-Giant match up earlier this season and realize we weren't playing well, didn't score at all in 2+ quarters, yet came very close to winning that game. There's nothing to fear....

Hears also some food for thought: People are almost ignoring the HUGE game Brady had against the Broncos. Let's not forget that they were ranked just ahead of the Giants in points allowed in the regular season. Also don't think for a second that the Giants secondary could even be backups on the Raven's team. The pats offensive line has been great this season and held up really well against the better Raven's front 7. Brady is going to pick apart the Giants secondary.

BradyManny said:

I have a suspicion that if we win, Gronk will be Super Bowl MVP. And his performance will have gone down as legendary on a banged up ankle.

Click to expand...

Bloody Sock Part II?

Gronk is suck a beast. People that are in as good of shape as he is heal faster than us mortals do. I have a feeling he won't be hindered much at all in the Super Bowl, and he will have a GREAT game en route to the Pats 4th Super bowl title.

Satchboogie3 said:

Stop, just stop.

Regular Season:
Balt: 12-4, 16.6 PPG allowed (3rd), YPP allowed 17.4 (11th)
NYG: 9-7, 25 PPG allowed (25th), YPP allowed 15.9 (14th)
Pats: 13-3, 21.4 PPG allowed (15th) YPP allowed 19.4 (2nd)

The teams overall YPP rankings:
Reg. Sea. ///// Last 3
Balt: 3.0 (4th) 3.7 (8th)
NYG: 0.4 (14th) 9.7 (2nd)
Pats: 6.2 (2nd) 9.4 (3rd)

Bellow is copied from another post (ianvamp, very awesome breakdown).
"The next week and a half we'll hear a TON about defenses (especially the Giants') getting after the QB. Let's see just how effective each team has been the last 5 games of the season (which is the Giants' win streak):

NYG
at NYJ: NYG: 5 sacks, 7 TFL, 6 QB hits; NYJ: 2 sacks, 7 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Dal: NYG: 6 sacks, 7 TFL, 7 QB hits; Dal: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits
vs Atl: NYG: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits; Atl: 1 sack, 6 TFL, 5 QB hits
at GB: NYG: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 5 QB hits; GB: 1 sack, 6 TFL, 7 QB hits
at SF: NYG: 3 sacks, 5 TFL, 6 QB hits; SF: 6 sacks, 5 TFL, 12 QB hits

TOTALS:
NYG: 20 sacks, 28 TFL, 31 QB hits
Opp: 12 sacks, 29 TFL, 34 QB hits

NE
at Den: NE: 4 sacks, 5 TFL, 4 QB hits; Den: 2 sacks, 5 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Mia: NE: 5 sacks, 6 TFL, 8 QB hits; Mia: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 8 QB hits
vs Buf: NE: 2 sacks, 3 TFL, 4 QB hits; Buf: 4 sacks, 4 TFL, 3 QB hits
vs Den: NE: 5 sacks, 10 TFL, 8 QB hits; Den: 0 sacks, 1 TFL, 2 QB hits
vs Bal: NE: 3 sacks, 5 TFL, 7 QB hits; Bal: 1 sack, 2 TFL, 3 QB hits

TOTALS:
NE: 19 sacks, 29 TFL, 31 QB hits
Opp: 11 sacks, 16 TFL, 19 QB hits

So even though the Pats lost Andre Carter (all-pro, team sack leader), and even though the Giants' D-line is playing out of its mind, during each team's last 5 games, the Giants and Patriots have gotten almost the same exact amount of pressure on the opposing QB. However, the Pats' O-line has yielded far fewer tackles for loss and QB hits than the Giants' O-line has.

Granted, a lot of that was the Giants facing the 49ers, but hey, the Pats had to face a bunch of good sack teams too. Here's where their opponents ranked in terms of sacks:

NYG
NYJ: t17th (35)
Dal: t7th (42)
Atl: t19th (33)
GB: t27th (29)
SF: t7th (42)
AVG: 15.4th (36.2)

NE
Den: t10th (41)
Mia: t10th (41)
Buf: t27th (29)
Den: t10th (41)
Bal: t3rd (48)
AVG: 12th (40.0)

So the Pats' OL yielded less pressure than the Giants' OL did over the last 5 games, despite the Pats facing teams that were better at putting pressure on and getting into the backfield.

In conclusion, as good as the Giants have been at putting pressure on the QB during their awesome 5-game stretch, the Pats have been *JUST AS GOOD* over that same period of time; moreover, the Pats' OLine has been significantly better, especially given the caliber of defenses they've faced over that five game stretch, at keeping opposing pressure at bay."

People throw out the regular season for the Giants claiming their are now a completely different team, yet want to look at the Pats defense during the regular season. Are you really about to say that the Pats defense hasn't improved? Really? Give me a break. Hell, just watch the Pats-Giant match up earlier this season and realize we weren't playing well, didn't score at all in 2+ quarters, yet came very close to winning that game. There's nothing to fear....

Click to expand...

Throw the stats away - for the thousandth f-cking time, this is not the same Giants defense Osi Umenyiora has returned and Tuck has become healthy. People around here want to contribute the Patriots "turnaround" to the return of Spikes and Chung, well, news flash - Umenyiora and a healthy Tuck are studs. Per NY Post: First, the Giants got healthier. Defensive coordinator Perry Fewell has said “our pass defense is our pass rush,’’ and his pass rush got energized by the return of Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck’s return to relative health. Now able to get pressure by using only their four linemen, the Giants were able to hold down the fort on the back end of the defense without committing extra bodies to blitzes.

This healthy version of the Giant's defense just held the Falcons to 2 points, the vaunted Packers to 20 points, and the 49ers to 17 points.

P.S. If not for two big plays by Vernon Davis the 49ers would have been held to hardly no points. Smith was befuddled by the Giants pass rush & the 49ers only scored 3 points on the second half.

mb6592 said:

I'm a Patriots fan. Why would I lie about my assessment of their defense? My assessement may be incorrect, but it's not dishonest.

Click to expand...

I was referring to your assessment of the Pats defense vs the Giants defense. Maybe you have a real and valid reason for thinking that there is such a disparity between the two, but it would stand to reason you'd try to present such facts. Instead you throw out some names and imply that those that disagree with you are being homers. Maybe dishonest is the wrong word, but you presented no real facts to back your opinion, which appeared to be little more than an attempt to stir things up.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

I was referring to your assessment of the Pats defense vs the Giants defense. Maybe you have a real and valid reason for thinking that there is such a disparity between the two, but it would stand to reason you'd try to present such facts. Instead you throw out some names and imply that those that disagree with you are being homers. Maybe dishonest is the wrong word, but you presented no real facts to back your opinion, which appeared to be little more than an attempt to stir things up.

Click to expand...

Read my last post for some facts which you can quickly disregard. And those "names" have stellar careers attached to them. And who's trying to stir things up? I want the Patriots to kick their f-cking ass. I just don't feel the need to downplay the Giants' capabilities to feel better about whatever. The Giants defense is good, better then good. If the Patriots beat them, they will have beaten an elite defense, playing their best football.

mb6592 said:

Throw the stats away - for the thousandth f-cking time, this is not the same Giants defense Osi Umenyiora has returned and Tuck has become healthy. People around here want to contribute the Patriots "turnaround" to the return of Spikes and Chung, well, news flash - Umenyiora and a healthy Tuck are studs. Per NY Post: First, the Giants got healthier. Defensive coordinator Perry Fewell has said “our pass defense is our pass rush,’’ and his pass rush got energized by the return of Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck’s return to relative health. Now able to get pressure by using only their four linemen, the Giants were able to hold down the fort on the back end of the defense without committing extra bodies to blitzes.

This healthy version of the Giant's defense just held the Falcons to 2 points, the vaunted Packers to 20 points, and the 49ers to 17 points.

P.S. If not for two big plays by Vernon Davis the 49ers would have been held to hardly no points. Smith was befuddled by the Giants pass rush & the 49ers only scored 3 points on the second half.

Click to expand...

That vaulted Giants D is primarily the same and if you look at those teams yards per point offensively, they show teams that beat themselves, not that got beat. So does actually watching the game.

The Giants follow in the footsteps of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Very inefficient offensively waiting to be exposed by a more efficient offense. Those teams you mention didn't play well. It wasn't so much what the Giant D actually did, it was the boneheaded mistakes and sloppy playing of those offenses.

You guys didn't BEAT GB. You got beat by GB when both teams played well. You only beat them when they played like crap. Atlanta wasn't a shutout it was a complete offensive implosion by an offense.

The worst offense in the NFL has an efficiency rating of around 21 yards per point, the Rams. Atlanta's efficiency was 125 yards per point in their playoff game against the Giants. It's called an artificially inflated stat. They would have needed to travel 875 yards to score a touchdown. It wasn't that you guy stopped them from getting yards. They got yards. They got no points. But no defense is that good. No defense does that to an NFL offense without that offense doing something very stupid repeatedly. The best at doing that are the Pats and GB themselves and even their defensive efficiency is only around 20 yards per point. Not 125.

It just does not happen. And the proof is actually in this season's history and NFL history. When have the Giants defense done that to a decent offense this year? Not once. When do defenses ever shut down offenses like that? Almost never.

Only when the opponents' offense plays like crap can that actually happen. In the NFL, even great defenses can't hold even an average offense to 2 points. Good offenses playing terribly hold themselves to 2 points.

mb6592 said:

Read my last post for some facts which you can quickly disregard. And those "names" have stellar careers attached to them. And who's trying to stir things up? I want the Patriots to kick their f-cking ass. I just don't feel the need to downplay the Giants' capabilities to feel better about whatever. The Giants defense is good, better then good. If the Patriots beat them, they will have beaten an elite defense, playing their best football.

Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment of the Giants defense for the most part. I'm just confused as to what is leading you to believe that the Pats defense, which has seemingly put up comparative numbers, is somehow average. The problem with bringing up names is that it provides no real means of comparison for other posters to use to carry on a conversation about this with you. Actually in your post you pretty much dismisses a previous posters attempt to show how similar the defenses are by saying stats don't matter. If all you're willing to accept for proof is names, then there's clearly nothing anyone can do to convince you otherwise since the only "big" name the Pats' defense has is VW. However names have long proven to be the least reliable way to judge a team/player: the Eagles weren't a super team, the Pats weren't better with AH aboard, Ochocinco has been a flop, the Jets don't have a high powered running game because of LdT, TO can't find a job, Lewis/Reed/Ngata weren't able to outperform a much maligned Pats' defense, etc. Performance is what matters and right now the Pats defense appears to be performing on par with the Giants and you haven't provided anything to contest that. All you've been doing is dismissing other people's points while using flowery language. To me that seems like trying to stir things up.

ThatllMoveTheChains!!! said:

I agree with your assessment of the Giants defense for the most part. I'm just confused as to what is leading you to believe that the Pats defense, which has seemingly put up comparative numbers, is somehow average.

Click to expand...

Believe me, I'm trying, real hard, to feel good about this defense.

Thinking the Pats offense should move the ball and score points against the Giants D isn't being overconfident, it is looking at the facts and understanding what they mean.

There is a lot of reason to be confident the Pats' offense will fare well, those reasons have been presented throughout this thread.

The Patriots and Giants are very comparable teams overall, to think either team will roll over the other is unrealistic. However, the Pats' offense matches up well against the Giants defense, so it is not unrealistic to think they have a decent chance to have a good game.

mb6592 said:

Believe me, I'm trying, real hard, to feel good about this defense.

Click to expand...

I'm not really sure why you wouldn't at least feel like they are competent and capable of playing very well. I'm not saying you should think the Pats' D is amazing, but anecdotally and empirically they have played pretty well, especially recently.

Patriots2001 said:

Common theme in the 2 championship games both losing teams beat themselves IMO...The Pats do have weaknesses but the one thing they very rarely do is beat themselves..The Giants are much like the Pats in that respect because of Tom Coughlin but i still think Eli Manning is still prone to making a bad pass and Brady got his out of his system last week...Plus look for Wilfork to play a big role collapsing the interior line of the Giants...

Click to expand...

How did the Ravens beat themselves? The Pats had 3 turnovers, yet they lead for most of the game. Just because they were unlucky on the last drive doesn't mean they played better. Watch the entire game.

I am 50/50 on the confidence...I think we match up well besides our D and their O

But for some reason I just can't get stop think about the what ifs...what if they lose to them again...i cant take that...but there is nothing I can do to change then outcome just have to trust the players and hope for the best :rocker:

supafly said:

Couple or few very important notes here:

---Brady DID NOT have his worst game of the season, or anywhere close to it. He threw for 350 yards, and 2 TD's. He unfortunately also threw 2 INT's.

---If you went into the other room during the battle that was that game, and proclaimed that "we won" with several minutes left to go, you MAY have some issues that need to be dealt with.

---the NYG defense does not remind me, or anyone of the Baltimore Ravens.

---Most importantly, if you were able to get over the 2007 season's SB "pretty easily" you have something inside you that we do not understand very well around these parts.

Click to expand...

I normally try not to pile on, but I think your post covers everything that should have been said. The OP kind of opened himself up for it a bit.

PatsGirl2011 said:

How did the Ravens beat themselves? The Pats had 3 turnovers, yet they lead for most of the game. Just because they were unlucky on the last drive doesn't mean they played better. Watch the entire game.

Click to expand...

Ravens had two costly mistakes. Interception in the 4th by Flacco and the missed FG. Other than that they played a great game.

The Pats still played better though. That was an example of one great team beating another.

If the Pats were facing the Saints or Packers, many would be just as scared, or more so. This is the SB, the opponent should be a very good team. Giants are good, so are the Pats...bring it on.

I really felt, after watching the game 3 times now, that the Patriots defense won the game. I can't believe that I'm typing those words but if you go back and watch the defense was put in difficult situations time and time again in the second half and came up BIG time. I was most proud of them after the Woodhead fumble. The game really could have gotten out of hand there. Yet the D shook off the previous poor tackle attempt by Moore and held the Ravens to a FG which, obviously proved to be HUGE. Also included, Wilfork on the key 3 and 3 in the 4th quarter AND on 4th and 6. Brandon Spikes obviously made an enormous play after being pancaked. When the Pats gave the ball back on Brady's second INT the D may the aforementioned 4th down stop on the subsequent drive. Finally, most importantly, Sterling Moore mad two GREAT plays at the end of the game. I know lots of people are blaming Evans, but after seeing the play about 50 times now I'm not too sure what else he could have done, Moore just made an outstanding play.

Immediately post game I felt badly about our chances and the win overall. Now I couldn't feel more confident. Offense should be better and I think the D is proving that it is a much better unit than it was.

mb6592 said:

Throw the stats away - for the thousandth f-cking time, this is not the same Giants defense Osi Umenyiora has returned and Tuck has become healthy. People around here want to contribute the Patriots "turnaround" to the return of Spikes and Chung, well, news flash - Umenyiora and a healthy Tuck are studs. Per NY Post: First, the Giants got healthier. Defensive coordinator Perry Fewell has said “our pass defense is our pass rush,’’ and his pass rush got energized by the return of Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck’s return to relative health. Now able to get pressure by using only their four linemen, the Giants were able to hold down the fort on the back end of the defense without committing extra bodies to blitzes.

This healthy version of the Giant's defense just held the Falcons to 2 points, the vaunted Packers to 20 points, and the 49ers to 17 points.

P.S. If not for two big plays by Vernon Davis the 49ers would have been held to hardly no points. Smith was befuddled by the Giants pass rush & the 49ers only scored 3 points on the second half.

Click to expand...

The "vaunted" Packers might have been the most overrated offense in history. Not only did they show major concerns late in the season, but Rodgers probably took way too much time away from the game by sitting week 17 with a bye week to follow. But to the point: The average rank of the defenses the Packers faced: 22.75. The defenses averaged surrendering 24.7 PPG. The best defense they faced all year was the CHIEFS (12th)! They didn't face a single top 10 defense. Here's the ranks for the opponents defense faced: 12th, 13th, 14th (x2), 18th, 22nd, 23rd (x2), 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 29th, 31st (x2), 32nd. That's a LOT of games against BAD defenses.

I AGREE the Giants are better right now than they were earlier in the season, that's why I put up stats for their current 5 game win streak. You should have looked because you would have seen that even during this hot streak with a 100% healthy D-line, they STILL haven't out performed the Pats in the same time frame (in respect to sacks, hits for loss, and QB hits both on defense and for protection on offense). The Pats have done a better job protecting Brady while facing tougher teams (in respect to sack totals/overall defense).

The idea that the Pats O-line can't handle the Giants front 4 is just ridiculous. The '07 Superbowl was 4 YEARS AGO and was more about losing our starting tackles right before the game than just getting mauled. It's a completely different O-line now though.

People also want to tear the Pats defense apart for the play during the regular season. The fact is this: the Pats defense was 15th in Points allowed. They weren't a terrible defense, they were average. Add in healthy Spikes, Mayo, Chung, as well as Moore's emergence and overall improvement as the year progressed and it's a solid defense. Honestly our defense is MUCH more improved than the Giants now and we were much better to begin with. The offense isn't even a contest.

Also, don't forget how bad the Giants secondary is....

Oh yeah, and you mentioned shutting down San Fran. Alix Smith. Really?
Alex Smith 2011 Reg. Season: 196.5 Y/G, 7.3 Y/A, 61.3% comp, 17TD, 5 INT, 90.7 QB Rating
Alex Smith in the Giants loss: 196 Yards, 7.5 Y/A, 46.2% comp, 2 TD, 0 INT, 97.6 QB Rating

OH, and don't forget the 42 rushing yards he had (7 Y/A), way more than his 16.3 rush yards per game average.... Yeah, you guys totally shut that guy down!

Oh yeah, and how about that 150 yards rushing on your vaunted D. You held an average offense to 17 points. WOW.

mb6592 said:

Read my last post for some facts which you can quickly disregard. And those "names" have stellar careers attached to them. And who's trying to stir things up? I want the Patriots to kick their f-cking ass. I just don't feel the need to downplay the Giants' capabilities to feel better about whatever. The Giants defense is good, better then good. If the Patriots beat them, they will have beaten an elite defense, playing their best football.

Click to expand...

Elite Defense my arse !

The Giants gave up 25+ points per game. Not even when the Pats injured Defense reduced to playing a pair of WRs as Safeties in an emergency, ever declined to giving up 25 points per game !!!!

What was your record against the mighty awesome, (and overhyped), NFCE? I bet it wasn't 3-1 or .750 ball like the Pats did. Did'nt you lose to the Cowboys, and to the Redskins, and to the Eagles, for a poor 3-3 or .500 record with your supposedly "tough" division schedule? For that matter did 'nt you barely plaly .500 ball all year?

Oh excuuuuuzzze me!!!!, Y'all were a League power at 9-7, one game over .500!