We Still Need A Defensive End

14thDragon said:

How about drafting a guy next year and signing a mid-level free agent (like with Traylor) to split the reps with the rookie? That soulds like Bill logic too me.

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This is exactly what I think will happen. The body type BB wants in his DE's (6'4, 300, athletic but still strong) necessitate an early pick. The only guy who really fits that mold this year imo is Tyson Jackson. I can easily see a vet brought in to rotate with a rookie. Wright can take a few snaps there, but imo is much better on the nose.

I really think we need a guy to develop here. I'm even willing to use a 1st rounder
on him. Tyson Jackson - LSU or J.Gilbert - San Jose ST. I really can't see us coughing up big enough bucks to keep Seymour after this season. We will be drafting even lower next year. 32 I hope. I think this might be the spot to grab Big Sey's eventual replacement. I'm assuming we extend V.Wilfork. Or, that becomes our biggest need next year.

It does seem that we have the opportunity to bring in a top DE in Jackson or Gilbert. It will likely take the 23, and that will lock in our DE's through 2012. Then all we'll need to do is to extend Wilfork.

mgteich said:

It does seem that we have the opportunity to bring in a top DE in Jackson or Gilbert. It will likely take the 23, and that will lock in our DE's through 2012. Then all we'll need to do is to extend Wilfork.

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Or let Wilfork take someone else's money and walk. The we can draft Mount Cody next season and make out like bandits on the deal.

I do not think that Belichick would let Wilfork walk and hope that we could draft a particular rookie who might replace him.

If you think that way, let's trade up for Raji and expect to franchise and trade Wilfork after the season ends. Wouldn't we make out like bandits? NOT!

Ochmed Jones said:

Or let Wilfork take someone else's money and walk. The we can draft Mount Cody next season and make out like bandits on the deal.

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mgteich said:

I do not think that Belichick would let Wilfork walk and hope that we could draft a particular rookie who might replace him.

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Well, if you take the word particular out then it would be a very Belichick type move.

Whay do you guys think about using the 34th to get Robert Ayers?

14thDragon said:

Well, if you take the word particular out then it would be a very Belichick type move.

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If you take out the word "particular," the whole discussion is moot. Ochmed didn't say "there are plenty of rookies who could easily replace Wilfork," he said there is exactly one -- in the 2009 & 2010 drafts combined. Which makes Wilfork look more essential, not less.

Just my two Lincolns:

1. I don't think that you can "overinvest" in the D Line in BB's 3-4 scheme.... Wilfork is the rock and Warren and Seymour make up the roll... the whole D runs off their ability to clog, beat up and otherwise make life miserable for opposing O lineman... Wilfork is so good that we (the fan base) are amazingly "used to" his ability to take over the game. Seymour is just nasty and can/has "taken over" games, too... but is more useful taking on two guys and letting the LB pass rush in... all that being said, if we CAN'T resign Seymour next year, it's probably time to bring someone in (as others have said, Jackson could be great... BUT, may be overvalued in this draft as more and more teams go to the 3-4)

2. I think folks don't give Seymour enough credit.... but there is more than enough debate there... his job is not to get sacks (although he still does)... the fellow that dunks a basketball well is often not the best player on the floor in hoops (see Larry Bird)... playing the role well is huge...Seymour is nasty.

3. Wilfork... well... BB has stated that he's the best NT he has ever coached... 'nuff said, as far as I'm concerned.

4. Warren.... love him.

5. Wright... hey, this kid is a player... started at DE 2 or 3 times last year (for Warren... injury), fills in well for Wilfork and Seymour... REALLY happy with that signing... could be a starter some day (see 2, though... his job would NOT be to get sacks)

6. Green... hey, the kid is good.. is he paid a little high... I guess... but he's a good rotational player for us... if/when he hits FA, he'll get scooped up.

Again... just my thoughts on the prior posts... I'd be excited if we got Jackson... but, again, believe that he might be over valued for now... I'd be REALLY excited if we could somehow keep Seymour next year.... inho, we MUST keep Wilfork... we would NOT be making out, in any way, if he's allowed to go... I STILL can't believe that he fell into the mid twenties for us to grab him a few years ago... THAT'S the kind of lucky break that keeps us in the elite class of the league (along with magnificent QB "hits" late... lol, obviously)... but Wilfork... WOW.. I DON'T understand how anyone can imagine the squad without him there... to me, he IS the Pats D... the rest fill in behind him.

patchick said:

If you take out the word "particular," the whole discussion is moot. Ochmed didn't say "there are plenty of rookies who could easily replace Wilfork," he said there is exactly one -- in the 2009 & 2010 drafts combined. Which makes Wilfork look more essential, not less.

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No, he speculated at one, but did propose that there is one single draftable player in the next two years that could replace Wilfork. Cody, was a hypothetical, a proof on concept if you will.

Pat_the_Patriot said:

1. I don't think that you can "overinvest" in the D Line in BB's 3-4 scheme.... Wilfork is the rock and Warren and Seymour make up the roll... the whole D runs off their ability to clog, beat up and otherwise make life miserable for opposing O lineman... Wilfork is so good that we (the fan base) are amazingly "used to" his ability to take over the game. Seymour is just nasty and can/has "taken over" games, too... but is more useful taking on two guys and letting the LB pass rush in... all that being said, if we CAN'T resign Seymour next year, it's probably time to bring someone in (as others have said, Jackson could be great... BUT, may be overvalued in this draft as more and more teams go to the 3-4)

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I do not think that experience bears this out. For the last 4 some odd years the defense has had as its starting D-lineman Seymour, Wilfork and Warren. But in that time has the defense been getting better or worse? Now if you think that having this line has made the defense great, well then that is your opinion and I will leave you to it. My contention is that the defense has been getting worse, despite this talented front line. The lack of investment in talent in the back 7 has hurt the defense, and it is my opinion that further infusions of talent are needed to get defense back to a championship level. It is also my opinion that to continue to invest high value picks into the defensive line may maintain the high talent of the defensive line but will forstall efforts to improve the areas of the defense, still leaving the team with a substandard defense.

Pat_the_Patriot said:

Just my two Lincolns:

Wilfork is so good that we (the fan base) are amazingly "used to" his ability to take over the game. .

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I'll second that. There were a few games, and the second Miami game comes to mind immediately, where Wilfork was the best player on the field.

Now, can Cody take over as a rookie? Sure. But unless we're counting on the Pats getting the #1 overall pick, I'm not assuming we can draft him.

Personally, I think we're going to end up extending Wilfork at the expense of Seymour. We'll probably get the top Comp pick for Seymour, and let him go. I suppose tagging for a year is also an option, but an unlikely one.

And I'm sure Belichick considers this every day, which is why Tyson Jackson will be drafted if available at #23, or BB will find a way to trade up next year to assure himself of grabbing Oghobaase (whom I love), Jones, Suh, or whomever else he likes next year.

Ochmed Jones said:

Or let Wilfork take someone else's money and walk. The we can draft Mount Cody next season and make out like bandits on the deal.

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This is getting ridiculous Ochmed.


Cody is a great prospect, but thats all he is, a prospect. Vernon Gholston was a great prospect.


Wilfork is a stud. Cody might be. Theres also a very real possibility that hes the next high first round bust. Wilfork will still be a stud. Wilfork is too young to let walk.

I think we will Re-sign seymour.

Ochmed Jones said:

Or let Wilfork take someone else's money and walk. The we can draft Mount Cody next season and make out like bandits on the deal.

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Reaper said:

I think we will Re-sign seymour.

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I think he gets extended this year, honestly. Hes only what, 29, right now? Hes right in the middle of his prime.

They could resign him and free up cap space this year if they wanted.

Ochmed Jones said:

Or let Wilfork take someone else's money and walk. The we can draft Mount Cody next season and make out like bandits on the deal.

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Wilfork is perfect for this defense. Unless he prices himself off the team (for which he says he wants to play), we will pay him (eventually).

He is perfect for what BB wants his NTs to be and do (and those don't come along very often...there are none in this years draft).

Wilfork is worth as much to us as any defensive player in the league. Wilfork should be paid that way.

CoachK said:

Wilfork is perfect for this defense. Unless he prices himself off the team (for which he says he wants to play), we will pay him (eventually).

He is perfect for what BB wants his NTs to be and do (and those don't come along very often...there are none in this years draft).

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14thDragon said:

No, he speculated at one, but did propose that there is one single draftable player in the next two years that could replace Wilfork. Cody, was a hypothetical, a proof on concept if you will.

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Nope, not for Ochmed. Trail him for a while and you'll realize that Cody isn't a "proof of concept," he's an obsession.

i still say that if we can keep them into the uncapped year. whats wrong with doing that then setting up a deal that they both get paid a motza in that oe year and then the eal works out that they have very cap friendly deals for the rest of their contract. wouldn't that be a win for the patriots (keeping the 2 pillars up front) and a win for them they get paid up front then still have long term deals with the pats in a view to win some rings. i really think if kraft has the money that unless there is some rule preventing it that is the way to go

jsull87 said:

i still say that if we can keep them into the uncapped year. whats wrong with doing that then setting up a deal that they both get paid a motza in that oe year and then the eal works out that they have very cap friendly deals for the rest of their contract.

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the 30% rule?

Synovia said:

This is getting ridiculous Ochmed.


Cody is a great prospect, but thats all he is, a prospect. Vernon Gholston was a great prospect.


Wilfork is a stud. Cody might be. Theres also a very real possibility that hes the next high first round bust. Wilfork will still be a stud. Wilfork is too young to let walk.

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Cody is the best NT prospect since Mike Ruth.