The Official 'Trade Brady' Debate Thread - Do Not Start Another One

Re: What Would It Take...?

aluminum seats said:

Well, putting aside the "simple as that/case closed" silliness, the point is obviously a real one if the Pats think about going with Cassel--the reaction of the rest of the team (not just Moss). Ultimately, it would come down to how well the move worked, I think. Some players would be upset, but most realize that the Patriots MO is to always do what's best for the team.

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You hit the nail on the head " with whats best for the team", a point that the vast majority failed to comprehend. The argument for keeping Brady has been he"s won three Super bowls here (which he did, with the help of some good defenses).
So here's a question: Would the Patriots be more apt to win three more Super bowls with Cassel and the bounty from a Brady trade, or win (3) more with Brady and trading Cassell/getting compensation picks for Cassel?
The big question will be the ruling on franchising Cassel and Brady's health.

Hmmm.....an official trade Brady thread. So this is what insanity actually looks like.

all these morons who say trade brady or franchise cassel should listen to eei now...

steve had a great point, trade cassel and brady and devolop another qb, its all about the system folks!!
rofl

ouch another, why didnt they frachise samuel and trade him, same with branch

its not going to happen!

j00fek said:

ouch another, why didnt they frachise samuel and trade him, same with branch

its not going to happen!

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Umm.... they had a contract stipulation NOT to place the Franchise Tag on Samuel. There was no need to tag Branch since he was still under contract to begin with.

Ian said:

This is going here for one reason and one reason only. I understand there are some who want to speculate, even though most of these same people were ready to kick Cassel out in favor of O'Connell in week 3 yet now they feel he should be a good replacement for Brady. There are also some who just want to trade Brady for the sake of seeing what the Pats would do with two #1 Picks. I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.

However THIS IS THE ONLY THREAD TO DO IT IN. Please keep them in THIS thread. Do not post NEW threads on this, there have been plenty of them as it is. If you post another one, it will get deleted. If you repeatedly attempt to post multiple ones, you will be penalized.

Also, keep the personal attacks to a minimum. By posting in this thread you realize that odds are pretty good that people are going to respond passionately and will likely be irritated. Needless to say keep it good natured, or again, you will be penalized.

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Who is this "Brady" that you speak of?

j00fek said:

all these morons who say trade brady or franchise cassel should listen to eei now...

steve had a great point, trade cassel and brady and devolop another qb, its all about the system folks!!
rofl

ouch another, why didnt they frachise samuel and trade him, same with branch

its not going to happen!

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They didn't franchise Samuel to trade him. They franchised him because they felt they couldn't go into the season without him -- and it's going to be the same with Cassel. At least that is what the initial thinking will be. They need him as a hedge against Brady not coming back.

But they have had some history with the tag-and-trade move. Tebucky Jones comes to mind. They were willing to eat a lot of money to trade T-Buck, who was just a mediocre player. Cassel was the MVP of the team this year. You have to believe they'll do what it takes to get some value for him.

In the end, who exactly is the other end of the transaction?

If Tampa Bay offered 3 first round and 3 second round picks for TB, would you make the move?

How about if they offered that for MC? Would you keep him as a franchised QB?

Real World said:

Hmmm.....an official trade Brady thread. So this is what insanity actually looks like.

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Hmmmmm......another annoying one-liner in this thread. So this is what bringing nothing to the table actually looks like.

Cassel has not proven he can win against good defenses. His biggest test, the Steelers, he made Tony Eason look like Joe Montana circa 1989. All he has proven is that he's a frontrunner who is capable of completing passes to a hall of famer and the most underrated slot receiver in the league, but not much else.

When we are eliminated next week or the first round of the playoffs, I expect this thread to turn into "Does Cassel still have value? Can we even franchise him?"

ManningOverratedHick said:

Cassel has not proven he can win against good defenses. His biggest test, the Steelers, he made Tony Eason look like Joe Montana circa 1989. All he has proven is that he's a frontrunner who is capable of completing passes to a hall of famer and the most underrated slot receiver in the league, but not much else.

When we are eliminated next week or the first round of the playoffs, I expect this thread to turn into "Does Cassel still have value? Can we even franchise him?"

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The problem with this post is your judging Cassel on one game. What was the other quality oppenent in which Cassel can be measured? In addition, Cassel never had much of a chance after the offensive line broke down and he didn't have his "most underated slot receiver' in the game. Did you forget how Brady got hammered by Pittsburgh in 2004?
But hey, don't give Cassel any credit because he' lost to Pittsburgh and has two great receivers, besides your name speaks volumes.

I would not even begin to assume that Brady would fetch top value if traded ... why would anyone give top value for a player coming off a severe injury? I would take the cap hit ... franchise Cassel and make a trade of one of them before the dead line next year. Belichick is usually about max value and sometime early in the 2009 season some team will desperatley need a QB due to injury.

Scout, I can see right through your act. You're trying to be "controversial" and "edgy" by suggesting that the Patriots trade Brady. Even Jonathan Kraft said, Matt Cassel has a long career in front of him, but Brady is a once in a generation quarterback. In other words, they aren't trading them.

As for "the defense won him championships" talk, you sound like a Colts fan. Of course you need a good defense to get to the playoffs and win in the playoffs, but don't underestimate the importance of quarterback play. Peyton Manning, as good as he is in the regular season, is the main reason, not the defense, that the Colts have only won one Super Bowl. How many quarterbacks do you see every year, including Manning, throwing interceptions at key moments in the playoffs and ruining their team's chances?

It's both defense and clutch QB play. Even Manning the year they won had that good second half against us in the conference game.

IcyPatriot said:

I would not even begin to assume that Brady would fetch top value if traded ... why would anyone give top value for a player coming off a severe injury? I would take the cap hit ... franchise Cassel and make a trade of one of them before the dead line next year. Belichick is usually about max value and sometime early in the 2009 season some team will desperatley need a QB due to injury.

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Couple of different parts to this. As for the mid-season trade, for whatever reason they never seem to happen in the NFL, so I don't see that happening.

The first part is sort of funny--not so much on your part (it's certainly a fair point that the severe injury of Brady will make teams tred very carefully here), but more in relation to the dozens of "this thread is so sick" posts. According to your point, it's not that the Pats wouldn't trade Brady, but that we couldn't get anything for him!

aluminum seats said:

According to your point, it's not that the Pats wouldn't trade Brady, but that we couldn't get anything for him!

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That may be a valid point to debate. Given that Brady is arguably a QB that is rated in terms of generations, and Cassel may be a very good QB, how does one measure "value"?

What could a team give up, that would provide the Patriots with proper value for Brady, if that was the way the FO decided to go? Would a Ricky Williams scenario happen? For the sake of argument, if Cassel is worth a 1, what is Brady worth? And would ~any~ team be willing to give that much up?

ManningOverratedHick said:

Scout, I can see right through your act. You're trying to be "controversial" and "edgy" by suggesting that the Patriots trade Brady. Even Jonathan Kraft said, Matt Cassel has a long career in front of him, but Brady is a once in a generation quarterback. In other words, they aren't trading them.

As for "the defense won him championships" talk, you sound like a Colts fan. Of course you need a good defense to get to the playoffs and win in the playoffs, but don't underestimate the importance of quarterback play. Peyton Manning, as good as he is in the regular season, is the main reason, not the defense, that the Colts have only won one Super Bowl. How many quarterbacks do you see every year, including Manning, throwing interceptions at key moments in the playoffs and ruining their team's chances?

It's both defense and clutch QB play. Even Manning the year they won had that good second half against us in the conference game.

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I probably have the most posts on this thread in which takes an objective view concerning trading Brady. You should read thru the threads before commenting because the vast majority of fans who oppose the trade are hysterical and do not give a logical explanation defending their position. That is the reason I'm not dropping this (you don't have to scroll too far back to catch on). Secondly, since when does it matter what a GM states when it comes to fans debating a subject (fortunately, opinions on this site in no way influences management).
On the Colts, their defense sucks. They came together during a brief period one season and they won a championship. I think Manning is a great qb who was denied earlier in his career by great defenses by the Patriots. In 2001, the Patriots won a championship and the underlying reason was the defense. It shut down the 'greatest show on turf'.
One more time: for everybody that totally dismisses trading Brady because he's been a part of three championships, that's looking to the past. How many championships will the Patriots win with the current defense. Didn't win last year because of it and would not win this year if Brady was playing. If the Patriots can get picks for Cassel, great. If not, how do you not look at your options. How's that for edgy?

I was on the road for business today and got to listen to a lot more EEI than I usually do and I'm stunned by the number of "fans" contemplating trading Brady. He's the best dam QB in the NFL. Not only talented by intelligent on the field. Something QBs like Favre lack. There is no trade in my mind that would justify letting Brady go to another team.

Va_Pats_Fan said:

That may be a valid point to debate. Given that Brady is arguably a QB that is rated in terms of generations, and Cassel may be a very good QB, how does one measure "value"?

What could a team give up, that would provide the Patriots with proper value for Brady, if that was the way the FO decided to go? Would a Ricky Williams scenario happen? For the sake of argument, if Cassel is worth a 1, what is Brady worth? And would ~any~ team be willing to give that much up?

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Well, that's the question--one of them, anyway. (Along with the health of Brady, the ultimate upside of Cassel, etc.) I hate suggesting possibilities there, because it seems so random....what does it matter what we throw out there? How many teams would be involved? So there's so much in the hopper it's difficult to say. In a vacuum? I don't know, 5 picks? 2 1sts, 2 seconds, and a third? Some combination of picks and players? Who knows.

The Walker trade years ago was surreal, really:

Minnesota Vikings Received:
RB Herschel Walker
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1990 (54) (Mike Jones)
San Diego's 5th round pick - 1990 (116) (Reggie Thornton)
Dallas's 10th round pick - 1990 (249) (Pat Newman)
Dallas's 3rd round pick - 1991 (68) (Jake Reed)

Dallas Cowboys Received:
LB Jesse Solomon
LB David Howard
CB Issiac Holt
RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
DE Alex Stewart
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) They traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft (Emmitt Smith)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright)
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (11) (Pat Harlow)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Darryll Lewis)
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson)
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins

aluminum seats said:

Couple of different parts to this. As for the mid-season trade, for whatever reason they never seem to happen in the NFL, so I don't see that happening.

The first part is sort of funny--not so much on your part (it's certainly a fair point that the severe injury of Brady will make teams tred very carefully here), but more in relation to the dozens of "this thread is so sick" posts. According to your point, it's not that the Pats wouldn't trade Brady, but that we couldn't get anything for him!

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We could get something for Brady ... but not max value that's all I'm saying. Therefore I am confident Belichick will find a way to keep Cassel and then resolve the issue at some point next year. Brady finally closed on his house in California ... he'll be a neighbor of the "Terminator". What if brady asked to be traded ... anything can happen and I'm not going to fool myself into thinking he will be here for the next 3-5 years. I can easily see him as a 49'er as I can see him a Patriot.

It is really ludicrious that we have 420 posts in this thread entertaining the idea of trading Brady. Maybe we can trade Belichick to the Jets for Mangini and their first round pick while we are at it. Mangini is younger than Belichick like Cassel is younger than Brady.

Rob0729 said:

It is really ludicrious that we have 420 posts in this thread entertaining the idea of trading Brady. Maybe we can trade Belichick to the Jets for Mangini and their first round pick while we are at it. Mangini is younger than Belichick like Cassel is younger than Brady.

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Yes but unlike Mangini, Cassel has actually proven that he's pretty good.