Pass receiving seperation and the lack of it

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

I don't know of anyone rooting against him...

But i do remember one dude on here saying that he was going to make the hall of fame after his TD catch against the Jets.

He's unreliable and hasn't done a damn thing in this league.

He has the greatest QB ever and the best coach ever and the opportunity to play opposite the most athletic receiver ever and he doesn't look so hot right now.

My vote is that this guy sucks royally.
go ahead and write it down and come back later and make me look like a fool for saying it... I would love it if he proved me wrong.

plus he has field turf for his so called speed and a few good wr's to take double coverage off.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

One of my friends on Planet is back from TC tonight and reports Chad was getting open deep on double moves, but the QBs had already found open receivers on shorter routes by the time he broke free. We'll just have to wait and see how the O-line holds up whether double moves deep will pay off.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

One of my friends on Planet is back from TC tonight and reports Chad was getting open deep on double moves, but the QBs had already found open receivers on shorter routes by the time he broke free. We'll just have to wait and see how the O-line holds up whether double moves deep will pay off.

good news. Mrs. B said CJ was lackluster. But that is good news. I am pulling for him to have a productive game Thursday

 

[PatsFan2]

I refer folks here to the camp observations of the Dookfish over in the camp forum. In my view this is a mainstream forum issue. The DF explains why he thinks BB went after Lamont Jordan and has some somewhat unsettling observations about a couple young players.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=947791&postcount=36

P.S. Be warned. The Dookfish doesn't do paragraphs.

Reading a DookFish post should be the new punishment for repeat offenders. I don't know about you guys: but that DookFish post made me dizzy.:wha:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

One of my friends on Planet is back from TC tonight and reports Chad was getting open deep on double moves, but the QBs had already found open receivers on shorter routes by the time he broke free. We'll just have to wait and see how the O-line holds up whether double moves deep will pay off.

The good news for CJ and those fanboys here who gush over his ripped smooth muscles and body is that he's been the go to guy on punt returns after Faulk. If you're battling for the 4th or 5th WR spot it's imperative that you have a strong role on STs. Jackson has to prove to BB that he's consistently reliable fielding and holding onto the ball. He's on his way.

 

[PatsFan37]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

The good news for CJ and those fanboys here who gush over his ripped smooth muscles and body is that he's been the go to guy on punt returns after Faulk. If you're battling for the 4th or 5th WR spot it's imperative that you have a strong role on STs. Jackson has to prove to BB that he's consistently reliable fielding and holding onto the ball. He's on his way.

I hope they give him his chances. I'd rather he was taking punts than Welker, even if they have to give up a few yards on the return. Welker's fearlessness can be a scary thing to watch, though he does seem capable of tunneling into the fourth dimension.

So what you're saying, Mistah Pissah, is that come Thursday, the Ripped One better not drop any punts.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

The good news for CJ and those fanboys here who gush over his ripped smooth muscles and body is that he's been the go to guy on punt returns after Faulk. If you're battling for the 4th or 5th WR spot it's imperative that you have a strong role on STs. Jackson has to prove to BB that he's consistently reliable fielding and holding onto the ball. He's on his way.

I haven't seen many Chad Jackson fanboys here. Maybe one or two. Not many.

I think most people who don't hate the guy are hopeful that he will live up to his draft status and eventually be a solid starter on this team. I have not seen anyone other than maybe one guy gush over Jackson in over a year on this board. I do one guy bragging about Jackson becoming a stud who will be a top#2 to Moss#1 in this league. But most of us are living in the real world when it comes to Jackson expectations.

I personally am not ready to give up on the guy, but I am not sold that his natural physical ability will transfer over to on the field play either. I am hopeful he will be a valued contributor. I am not going to draw any conclusions on any training camp reports.

He will get plenty of opportunities on Thursday to show what he can do. It will only be a start to him playing himself on or off the roster (I don't think he gets cut, but could be that 5th or 6th WR) and he will still have a long way to go to prove or disprove himself.

 

[14thDragon]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

He will get plenty of opportunities on Thursday to show what he can do. It will only be a start to him playing himself on or off the roster (I don't think he gets cut, but could be that 5th or 6th WR) and he will still have a long way to go to prove or disprove himself.

I disagree, if he does not fare well in the pre-season; I.e., can't get open and doesn't catch the ball, then the Chad Jackson era will come to a close. Given the tightness of the roster, I doubt the team can carry Jackson just to give him more practice reps. If Aiken proves to be a better reciever, then his special teams skills would likely earn him the spot and make Jackson expendable.

Clearly the Brain Trust is looking to cultivate that 6th WR position as a flex position for more than one back-up. With Ventrone and Slater working at both WR and DB, they are looking for more bang for the roster spot.

On the flip side, if Jackson can show some flashes (not even full blown emergence but just flashes) of potential upside. Some clutch catches, a few good moves, then it would be worth it to lose a special teams ace for possible future results.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

I disagree, if he does not fare well in the pre-season; I.e., can't get open and doesn't catch the ball, then the Chad Jackson era will come to a close. Given the tightness of the roster, I doubt the team can carry Jackson just to give him more practice reps. If Aiken proves to be a better reciever, then his special teams skills would likely earn him the spot and make Jackson expendable.

Clearly the Brain Trust is looking to cultivate that 6th WR position as a flex position for more than one back-up. With Ventrone and Slater working at both WR and DB, they are looking for more bang for the roster spot.

On the flip side, if Jackson can show some flashes (not even full blown emergence but just flashes) of potential upside. Some clutch catches, a few good moves, then it would be worth it to lose a special teams ace for possible future results.

Again, if Bethel Johnson can make it through three years with the Pats, there is little chance that Jackson will be cut this year. You can't say that the roster this year is any tighter than in 2005. I think they will give Jackson this year to prove himself since he had injuries that hindered him the first two. After this year though, he

No way will the Pats keep Ray Ventrone over Jackson. Ventrone spent last year on the practice squad (other than one game) and he will spend this year there too. The Patriots didn't even retain his rights after the 2006 season and signed him last September to the practice squad after the Jets cut him.

As for Slater, I still think he will be considered a DB for a roster position when all is said and done. I still don't know if he makes a roster spot, but his return ability does give him a shot.

Besides, when was the last time they kept a developmental WR on the roster at least for a full year? The last one I remembered was David Givens. Even Bam Childress never has a full-time roster spot. The Pats virtually never use a roster spot for a developmental WR, but do keep several on the practice squad.

 

[14thDragon]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

Again, if Bethel Johnson can make it through three years with the Pats, there is little chance that Jackson will be cut this year. You can't say that the roster this year is any tighter than in 2005. I think they will give Jackson this year to prove himself since he had injuries that hindered him the first two. After this year though, he

No way will the Pats keep Ray Ventrone over Jackson. Ventrone spent last year on the practice squad (other than one game) and he will spend this year there too. The Patriots didn't even retain his rights after the 2006 season and signed him last September to the practice squad after the Jets cut him.

As for Slater, I still think he will be considered a DB for a roster position when all is said and done. I still don't know if he makes a roster spot, but his return ability does give him a shot.

Besides, when was the last time they kept a developmental WR on the roster at least for a full year? The last one I remembered was David Givens. Even Bam Childress never has a full-time roster spot. The Pats virtually never use a roster spot for a developmental WR, but do keep several on the practice squad.

Well it is either one or the other. Either Bethel Johnson was kept on the roster for 3 years to develop as a WR or he wasn't. He was kept becuase he showed some flashes and some speed. In the end it did not pan out. Jackson might go the same route, sooner or later.

Wether Slater or Ventrone are kept as DBs officially, all it will mean is that there are only 5 WR listed officially. The 6th WR spot would be a phantom position. Similar to when the 4th CB spot was Troy Browns.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think it isn't the end of the world if Gaffney lives up to his potential while Chad Jackson gets cut. We've never been all that great at drafting WRs since BB came to town. Another whiff. Move on. Gaffney was drafted with as high of expectations as Gaffney. He was just drafted by Houston. Gaffney took hold of his second chance. Maybe Jackson will, too. For another team.

We don't need him.

If Jackson's cut, its because he deserves to be cut.

That being said, to say that we don't need Jackson assumes that Moss remains healthy for the duration of his contract.

I love Gaffney as an all around short to mid range WR. I'm not so sure I'm as high on the Patriots Super Bowl chances with Gaffney as our #1 WR, are you?

Having Jackson develop makes the offense that much more dangerous and unpredictable, as well as providing invaluable insurance. I wouldn't be so quick to write him off and say he's not needed here.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

Well it is either one or the other. Either Bethel Johnson was kept on the roster for 3 years to develop as a WR or he wasn't. He was kept becuase he showed some flashes and some speed. In the end it did not pan out. Jackson might go the same route, sooner or later.

Wether Slater or Ventrone are kept as DBs officially, all it will mean is that there are only 5 WR listed officially. The 6th WR spot would be a phantom position. Similar to when the 4th CB spot was Troy Browns.

Bethel is a totally different situation. He was drafted for a specific need (kickoff return skills) and the potential for developing as a deep threat. He did just fine on the former but not so much on the latter (besides a few big plays).

CJack was drafted on his WR skills. His ability on special teams provides some versatility, which is a good thing. Given that CJack is still on his rookie contract, his cost/value ratio is likely too good to cut unless he really bombs.

Seems pretty reasonable that this is a huge year for CJack to claim his role with the team...but comparisons to Bethel seem like a stretch.

 

[14thDragon]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

Bethel is a totally different situation. He was drafted for a specific need (kickoff return skills) and the potential for developing as a deep threat. He did just fine on the former but not so much on the latter (besides a few big plays).

CJack was drafted on his WR skills. His ability on special teams provides some versatility, which is a good thing. Given that CJack is still on his rookie contract, his cost/value ratio is likely too good to cut unless he really bombs.

Seems pretty reasonable that this is a huge year for CJack to claim his role with the team...but comparisons to Bethel seem like a stretch.

They didn't draft Johnson in the second round for his "Kick Return" abilities, is was based on his combine numbers and wanting to develop a deep threat. It was to be a WR.

Jackson was drafted on the same principle, good combine numbers, and some college production. A second round flyer on a guy that had the measurables to be a real threat, but in the second round becuase he did not have great season in college before declaring.

Unless he shows some signs of development in the preseason, I do not see the value in keeping him and cutting a guy that can contribute, even if mostly on special teams. I would not even rule out making a trade for a guy if Jackson does not show up in the first coupld of preseason games.

 

[dhamz]

I don't think it ever makes sense to say that becasue player A got 3 years, so will player B. It doesn't work that way.

Even if it did, Bethel Johnson entered year 3 with 1 productive year (hard as it is to recall he had game changing moments as a rookie) and 1 unproductive year. He doesn't compare closely to Chad Jackson who comes in with 2 injury plagued unproductive years.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

I hope they give him his chances. I'd rather he was taking punts than Welker, even if they have to give up a few yards on the return. Welker's fearlessness can be a scary thing to watch, though he does seem capable of tunneling into the fourth dimension.

So what you're saying, Mistah Pissah, is that come Thursday, the Ripped One better not drop any punts.

I think CJ, NOT Welker will be Thursday's PR guy. If Mayo & Co play as advertised CJ and maybe others will have plenty of opportunities!

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

Rooting for a 3rd year oft-injured WR means you are soft and fanboyish, rooting for a 3rd year oft-injured TE means you are tough, and have possibly played football in the snow.

LOL. Funny stuff.

So CJ can catch everything that comes his way and he has great speed. The mystery is why can't he create separation? That's probably route running then. It's a skill. And it's a skill that can compensate for lack of speed. IE Jerry Rice with a 4.6 40 was still one of the best WRs of all time because of his superb routes.

CJ doesn't need to be Rice-like, but he does need to improve his route running to create that separation needed in the NFL. He can't just depend on his physical gifts to get the job done, not at this level. It might take some time but I believe route running is a skill that can be learned.

 

[14thDragon]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

LOL. Funny stuff.
So CJ can catch everything that comes his way and he has great speed.

Have we seen the great hands and great speed yet?

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

LOL. Funny stuff.

So CJ can catch everything that comes his way and he has great speed. The mystery is why can't he create separation? That's probably route running then. It's a skill. And it's a skill that can compensate for lack of speed. IE Jerry Rice with a 4.6 40 was still one of the best WRs of all time because of his superb routes.

CJ doesn't need to be Rice-like, but he does need to improve his route running to create that separation needed in the NFL. He can't just depend on his physical gifts to get the job done, not at this level. It might take some time but I believe route running is a skill that can be learned.

VJC... route running is something that comes natural, that is the reason why WR is one of the Biggest flop positions in Football. Once a players have the art of route running down the art of separation comes natural. ie...the first time i saw Deion Branch on the practice field i knew he was going to be something, that was from his art of separating from the Defender consistently. You know how i feel about CJ from over at KFFL. He is now playing with two of the best WR's in the game at their respective positions. If he doesn't show something with this group it's time to part ways. Chad Jackson are you listening?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

What's gonna be interesting is that Reiss has Sam Aiken challenging very strong for 4th WR. Given that Aiken is a Special Teams Ace, it's crunch time for CJ.

As the weeks go on, performance of the contenders will be monitored for consistency and continuous improvement. Plenty of weeks and games to go before the final 53.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

Well it is either one or the other. Either Bethel Johnson was kept on the roster for 3 years to develop as a WR or he wasn't. He was kept becuase he showed some flashes and some speed. In the end it did not pan out. Jackson might go the same route, sooner or later.

Wether Slater or Ventrone are kept as DBs officially, all it will mean is that there are only 5 WR listed officially. The 6th WR spot would be a phantom position. Similar to when the 4th CB spot was Troy Browns.

The fact of the matter is teams rarely if ever cut ties with a second round pick after two seasons. The fact that WRs take longer to develop and Jackson missed most of last year because of a torn ACL may give him even more of a chance to stay on the roster.

Johnson was kept around because he could return decent and the Pats weren't going to give up on second round pick so easily. He was always a horrible WR in the NFL. Jackson showed more signs of being a better WR in his rookie season. Jackson did have 3 TDs in his very limited action his rookie season which is one less TD than Johnson has had in his entire 4 year career.

I'm under no illusion that Jackson has a great chance to be a solid starter, but he is definitely a better WR than Bethel Johnson is at least in my mind. That ain't setting the bar that high (it barely gets it off the ground). That's why I say that if Johnson can stay on for three years, so can Jackson.