Pass receiving seperation and the lack of it

[Rob0729]

I don't think it ever makes sense to say that becasue player A got 3 years, so will player B. It doesn't work that way.

Even if it did, Bethel Johnson entered year 3 with 1 productive year (hard as it is to recall he had game changing moments as a rookie) and 1 unproductive year. He doesn't compare closely to Chad Jackson who comes in with 2 injury plagued unproductive years.

Did Bethel Johnson play a year I didn't see? Which year was productive? His best year was his rookie season where he had 16 catches for 209 yards and 2 TDs.

Chad Jackson in his rookie season had 13 catches for 153 yards and 3 TDs. And he didn't play the entire season (he missed 3 games and the entire training camp and preseason and was nursing an injury for others). If Bethel had "game changing moments" as a rookie, so did Jackson. Jackson did make some spectacular plays as a rookie, they were just few and far between. Remember the TD catch and run where he was knocked down and managed to do the last five yards or so with one hand on the ground.

I am not just doing player A vs. player B. I am stating that Jackson is a better player and if an unproductive bum like Bethel Johnson can get three season, than Jackson can.

 

[Rob0729]

BTW, the only game Bethel had more than 2 catches in a game his entire career was the Houston game in 2003. He had a fairly productive game with 5 catches for 65 yards and a 27 yard TD. Other than than he had one good 45 yard catch. Everything else was fairly unremarkable that season. Even with his speed, the two catches I mentioned were the only ones that were made for over 20 yards that season. Take away the Houston game and Jackson had a better rookie season.

 

[Metaphors]

Re: Pass Receiving Seperation & the Lack of It

They didn't draft Johnson in the second round for his "Kick Return" abilities, is was based on his combine numbers and wanting to develop a deep threat. It was to be a WR.

He absolutely was drafted for his "kick return" abilities. Branch and Faulk were splitting return duty (Pass may have been involved as well) and I doubt Belichick wanted them to take that beating and take the heavy load in the regular offense.

As I said in my post, he was also drafted for his potential as a deep threat. "Potential" being the key word there because the Pats still had Patten for that role.

As for being drafted in the 2nd round (2+ rounds earlier than projected)...do you really still ask that question about Pats draft picks?

Jackson was drafted on the same principle, good combine numbers, and some college production. A second round flyer on a guy that had the measurables to be a real threat, but in the second round becuase he did not have great season in college before declaring.

"Second round flyer?" "Some college production?" "Did not have great season in college before declaring?" He was a second round "value" pick and did just fine at Florida before he declared.

That is almost 180 degrees from Bethel. Limited production at a school not known for its passing attack. I don't even think he was a full-time starter (but I may be mis-remembering that).

Comparing CJack to Bethel is just silly. Both WRs taken in the 2nd round is where the comparison ends. There is plenty to criticize about CJack, but you don't have to make stuff up.

 

[Rob0729]

Wasn't Chad Jackson a first round projection on many mock drafts prior to the 2006 draft? Didn't Belichick say that he considered taking Jackson where he took Maroney but felt Maroney was too good to pass up? Wasn't Bethel Johnson considered a reach when the Pats drafted him?

Again, I don't think Jackson has come close to living up to his draft selection and I am not sure he ever will, but the Pats appeared to be far higher on Jackson than they ever were on Bethel. At least enough to consider Jackson in the first round and to actually trade up to get Jackson. That means the Pats may be more willing to give the guy a shot to live up to his potential than they gave Bethel. I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him a fourth year to produce. They were extremely high on this guy and they may give him every opportunity to produce.

 

[dhamz]

Did Bethel Johnson play a year I didn't see? Which year was productive? His best year was his rookie season where he had 16 catches for 209 yards and 2 TDs.

Chad Jackson in his rookie season had 13 catches for 153 yards and 3 TDs. And he didn't play the entire season (he missed 3 games and the entire training camp and preseason and was nursing an injury for others). If Bethel had "game changing moments" as a rookie, so did Jackson. Jackson did make some spectacular plays as a rookie, they were just few and far between. Remember the TD catch and run where he was knocked down and managed to do the last five yards or so with one hand on the ground.

I am not just doing player A vs. player B. I am stating that Jackson is a better player and if an unproductive bum like Bethel Johnson can get three season, than Jackson can.

I guess you missed the game in Indy when Bethel was a rookie where his kick returning turned momentum on multiple occasions. All it did was helped win the game and home field advantage. He averaged over 28 yards a kick return and was a game changer on special teams. He also caught a deep ball for a TD in the playoffs that year. You won't find anyone outside of yourself that doesn't call that rookie year productive.

He sucked after that. No question.

But to call Chad Jackson better after 2 years is laughable. He has done nothing.

 

[Rob0729]

I guess you missed the game in Indy when Bethel was a rookie where his kick returning turned momentum on multiple occasions. All it did was helped win the game and home field advantage. He averaged over 28 yards a kick return and was a game changer on special teams. He also caught a deep ball for a TD in the playoffs that year. You won't find anyone outside of yourself that doesn't call that rookie year productive.

He sucked after that. No question.

But to call Chad Jackson better after 2 years is laughable. He has done nothing.

So in other words, Jackson is Betheling his career. Johnson was and always will be a crappy WR who did nothing in the NFL. So he was a good returner for one year. He was still a pathetic WR. Jackson did as much in an injury plagued season as Johnson did totally healthy as a WIDE RECEIVER.

I don't know how you can say that a good special teams year and a spectacular per game average 1 catch, 13.05 yards, and 0.125 TDs a productive year. He was eighth on team in yards, nineth in terms of # of receptions, and fifth on the team in TD receptions. I agree that everyone in the world would consider stats like that productive. I sure hope Moss has that type of production this year. I doubt you will find universal agreement among the Pats fans that Bethel ever had a productive season.

Jackson is a better WR than Bethel Johnson was. That isn't much of a compliment. I may be a better WR than Bethel Johnson. Heck, my 80 year old grandmother may be a better WR than Bethel Johnson. Calling Bethel Johnson a WR is an insult to WRs everywhere. He was a good one year return guy pretending to be a WR. he was never ever anything more than a horrible WR though.

If you want to say Bethel was a better special teamer than Chad Jackson, I will agree with you. But I am talking about WR. Neither guy was brought on board to be a pure special teamer and from I have seen of Jackson as a WR, he is clearly better.

 

[Patslifer]

So in other words, Jackson is Betheling his career. Johnson was and always will be a crappy WR who did nothing in the NFL. So he was a good returner for one year. He was still a pathetic WR. Jackson did as much in an injury plagued season as Johnson did totally healthy as a WIDE RECEIVER.

I don't know how you can say that a good special teams year and a spectacular per game average 1 catch, 13.05 yards, and 0.125 TDs a productive year. He was eighth on team in yards, nineth in terms of # of receptions, and fifth on the team in TD receptions. I agree that everyone in the world would consider stats like that productive. I sure hope Moss has that type of production this year. I doubt you will find universal agreement among the Pats fans that Bethel ever had a productive season.

Jackson is a better WR than Bethel Johnson was. That isn't much of a compliment. I may be a better WR than Bethel Johnson. Heck, my 80 year old grandmother may be a better WR than Bethel Johnson. Calling Bethel Johnson a WR is an insult to WRs everywhere. He was a good one year return guy pretending to be a WR. he was never ever anything more than a horrible WR though.

If you want to say Bethel was a better special teamer than Chad Jackson, I will agree with you. But I am talking about WR. Neither guy was brought on board to be a pure special teamer and from I have seen of Jackson as a WR, he is clearly better.

As bad as Bethal was, I can say without a doubt, you are not even close to the same kind of athlete he was. Not even in the same world. To play in the NFL = amazing athletic ability.

Sometimes I think you computer jockeys forget just how good of an athlete you have to be to play in the NFL. The crappiest player in the NFL would school you left and right on the football field.

Not trying to be a ****, and I agree Bethal was a bad NFL player, but you make it seem as if you could do better, paalease!

 

[Rob0729]

As bad as Bethal was, I can say without a doubt, you are not even close to the same kind of athlete he was. Not even in the same world. To play in the NFL = amazing athletic ability.

Sometimes I think you computer jockeys forget just how good of an athlete you have to be to play in the NFL. The crappiest player in the NFL would school you left and right on the football field.

Not trying to be a ****, and I agree Bethal was a bad NFL player, but you make it seem as if you could do better, paalease!

I think someone needs to look up hyperbole in the dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

 

[Patslifer]

I think someone needs to look up hyperbole in the dictionary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

Yes, I know......

 

[TP76]

Receiving aside - I really liked what I read at the end of his post. Certainly one of the guys we're going to need to be productive quickly will be Wheatley (of whom I am very familiar with). Wish I could have witnessed his work against one of the league's best in Moss, and the way Dook made it sound, he had a very promising early performance.

Wheatley started fast and was a stellar, impactful presence when he first took the field for the Buffs --- and, if the trend continues at this level, we'll all be very happy. I have a feeling he will, he's a tremendous athlete with a nose for the ball.