Darren McFadden to Vist Patriots

[DaBruinz]

Maroney does deserve it. But how can you pass that up? Moss, Maroney and McFadden. I love it.

I can pass on that very easily. McFadden = Reggie Bush part II. In other words, McFadden won't be good without a complimentary back. But Maroney isn't a complimentary back. They have very similar running styles.

McFadden is lousy at blocking and picking up blitzes and he fumbles WAY TOO MUCH. You do realize that the Pats backfield didn't have a rushing fumble, right?

 

[TruthSeeker]

IF McFadden and Gholsten somehow happen to be there at #7, I'd be very angry if the Pats took McFadden. If the Jets take Gholsten (which would make me unhappy, because he seems like the perfect fit for the Pats), and McFadden is still there, and the Cowboys don't trade up for him, I have no problem with us taking McFadden. Someone mentioned he's Reggie Bush II, I'd love to add that dimension to our offense. I think if we had the extra added dimension of McFadden in the Super Bowl, I think we beat the Giants. Unfortunately, Maroney wasn't very effective, and McFadden adds that extra game breaking dimension that the Giants would have had to respect.

Like Reggie Bush, you can split him outside as a receiver, he can throw the halfback option, he can do so many things. With him in the Pats offense, they would be truly unstoppable. There are many prospects that would be available in the second round, either LB or CB. My dream though would be getting two defensive prospects in the first round (If we got Dallas' picks), and then an O-lineman in the second. But if we wound up with McFadden, I'd only be upset if we took him over any stud defensive prospect such as Long or Gholsten.

 

[dryheat44]

Like Reggie Bush, you can split him outside as a receiver, he can throw the halfback option, he can do so many things. With him in the Pats offense, they would be truly unstoppable. There are many prospects that would be available in the second round, either LB or CB. My dream though would be getting two defensive prospects in the first round (If we got Dallas' picks), and then an O-lineman in the second. But if we wound up with McFadden, I'd only be upset if we took him over any stud defensive prospect such as Long or Gholsten.

Two problems I have, and they're not really directed at you:

1. So the #7 pick is worth a gimmick player like Reggie Bush, who has been a colossal bust thus far relative to draft position? Is he a better football player than Kevin Faulk? Note that I think McFadden is better than Bush, but that's not part of your argument.

2. Which one of our wide receivers do we sit down in order to play McFadden out wide? I hate this argument, which was also used to support drafting Marshawn Lynch last year and Chris Johnson this year "well, we can use him as a WR so we can have him and Maroney on the field together....that would be unstoppable". We had the most proficient offense in the history of the NFL last year utilizing Moss, Welker, Watson, and Gaffney/Stallworth with one running back. Why on earth would we change in order to put a second running back on the field instead?

 

[patchick]

I think this is well overblown. Jerry Jones isn't stupid, and going to overdraft somebody because he played at his alma mater. Jones hasn't drafted a single player out of Arkansas since he's had the Cowboys.

I totally agree with this. I'm not sure where the conventional wisdom came from that Jerry Jones is willing to chuck his whole draft for a running back. I do think the Cowboys are likely to move up, but NOT with both #1's. They're a strong enough and young enough team that they could do very well by trading up with their later picks and maneuvering in round 1 for a couple of real studs. RB and CB are two need positions that are deep enough in this draft that you don't need a top-10 pick to get a top talent.

In fact, my nightmare scenario is a top 6 along these lines:

1. Vernon Gholston
2. Chris Long
3. Glen Dorsey
4. Sedrick Ellis
5. Jake Long
6. Matt Ryan

I'm not at all convinced that anyone would trade up for McFadden, with Mendenhall, Stewart and Rice all kicking around.

 

[alvinnf]

I can pass on that very easily. McFadden = Reggie Bush part II. In other words, McFadden won't be good without a complimentary back. But Maroney isn't a complimentary back. They have very similar running styles.

McFadden is lousy at blocking and picking up blitzes and he fumbles WAY TOO MUCH. You do realize that the Pats backfield didn't have a rushing fumble, right?

great post, Ditto!

 

[DaBruinz]

Not sure why folks are citing already having Maroney, Morris & Faulk in the fold as a reason NE doesn't need a RB. Last time I checked Faulk & Morris were on the wrong side of 30. One already missed half the season with an injury.

NE might not need another starting caliber RB in 2008, but it likely could in 2009, and definitely will in 2010.

Let's not forget, you are talking about the same regime that traded up for Dan Graham and two years later drafted another TE in the first.

I love when people try to equate totally irrelevent situations into the potential of people taking the most over-rated player in this draft.

Here's a reminder for you about the TE situation in 2004.
1) They only had Graham and Fauria.
2) Fauria was already in a relegated role, yet the Pats wanted to run a 2 TE offense, so they needed another TE.
3) The Pats aren't going to put BOTH Maroney and McFadden on the field at the same time they way they could with Graham and Watson.

Different situations that have NO bearing on one another.

 

[DaBruinz]

anyone the pats bring in to visit means they are at least -considering- drafting them, doesnt mean that they will, they could have a bad visit and the pats eliminate them from consideration.

To say the pats wouldnt even consider McFadden like alot of people have said is dumb, hes the best player in the draft and if he is sitting there at #7 there will be few players they would take over him.

McFadden = Most OVER-RATED player in the draft. He is NOT the best player in the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Peterson is the best young talent to come into the league in about a decade. Yup, I'd take him over Ware. I feel that Peterson improves the team so much that it outweighs help even at a position of need (CB, OLB, ILB).

Any RB would look like the best young talent running behind McKinnie, Hutchinson and Birk. They are, arguably, the best left side in the league. And yes, they are better than the Pats left side of the O-line.

 

[dryheat44]

In fact, my nightmare scenario is a top 6 along these lines:

1. Vernon Gholston
2. Chris Long
3. Glen Dorsey
4. Sedrick Ellis
5. Jake Long
6. Matt Ryan

I'm not at all convinced that anyone would trade up for McFadden, with Mendenhall, Stewart and Rice all kicking around.

I feel the same way, although I would remove Ellis and insert Clady (and change the order slightly).

I think that the Patriots are going to have to give a team a significant discount from the "trade value chart" in order to entice a team like Detroit to move up to get McFadden instead of sitting tight, or trading up slightly, for Mendenhall. That's why in my mock I have New England and Detroit (@15) swapping picks, with Detroit only throwing in a third rounder, which is a huge discount compared to the chart. It's still a good deal for New England though.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hmmm, I just don't buy that pressure on the QB is an issue for us, we were second in the league last season with 47 sacks, meanwhile the team with the best points against in the league was the Colts, and they only had 28 sacks.

I think we need better cover LB's though.


Then again I'm contradicting myself as I'm praying we draft Gholston, so ignore me.

Sacks aren't a true measure of pressure on a QB. Its only a partial indicator.

Other indicators include QB pressures and knockdowns. Which is where the Pats were lacking, in all honesty.

Yes, they do need another cover LB at the ILB position, but additional pressure on the QB and better coverage from the CBs will help also.

 

[cstjohn17]

I totally agree with this. I'm not sure where the conventional wisdom came from that Jerry Jones is willing to chuck his whole draft for a running back. I do think the Cowboys are likely to move up, but NOT with both #1's. They're a strong enough and young enough team that they could do very well by trading up with their later picks and maneuvering in round 1 for a couple of real studs. RB and CB are two need positions that are deep enough in this draft that you don't need a top-10 pick to get a top talent.

In fact, my nightmare scenario is a top 6 along these lines:

1. Vernon Gholston
2. Chris Long
3. Glen Dorsey
4. Sedrick Ellis
5. Jake Long
6. Matt Ryan

I'm not at all convinced that anyone would trade up for McFadden, with Mendenhall, Stewart and Rice all kicking around.

Don't be concerned, if this happens just pencil in your highest rated TE into the #7 slot...

Really it is not that bad, sometimes we get too caught up in 'value'. In this scenario we would still end up with a very good player:
CB - DRC, Jenkins, McKelvin
OLB - Groves, Harvey
OL - Williams, Clady

I am not a hater, I think McFadden will have a good NFL career and will be able to support his growing number of families. In some ways, although wasteful, McFadden or Mendenhall are less risky than many of the other fashionable picks.

 

[patchick]

I think that the Patriots are going to have to give a team a significant discount from the "trade value chart" in order to entice a team like Detroit to move up to get McFadden instead of sitting tight, or trading up slightly, for Mendenhall. That's why in my mock I have New England and Detroit (@15) swapping picks, with Detroit only throwing in a third rounder, which is a huge discount compared to the chart.

I keep picturing an exchange of 2nds (with a sweetener if need be). If you're a team like Carolina with a number of needs, that should be more attractive than giving up a pick altogether -- and it puts the Pats in nicer position for their needs, too.

 

[tombonneau]

I love when people try to equate totally irrelevent situations into the potential of people taking the most over-rated player in this draft.

Here's a reminder for you about the TE situation in 2004.
1) They only had Graham and Fauria.
2) Fauria was already in a relegated role, yet the Pats wanted to run a 2 TE offense, so they needed another TE.
3) The Pats aren't going to put BOTH Maroney and McFadden on the field at the same time they way they could with Graham and Watson.

Different situations that have NO bearing on one another.

I don't think that the situations are totally irrelevant. It shows BB is willing to spend a first round draft pick on an offensive position that conventionally there is only one of on the field at a time.

Graham=Marony=Former first round starter
Fauria=Morris=Capable vet can get the job done

And what makes you think they couldn't put Maroney & McFadden in the backfield at the same time? Something tells me they could create very effective play packages with two talented RBs. Just look at the 06 Saints for an example.

Just to be clear, I'm not a McFadden guy and would prefer they don't draft him, I just don't think its the not-gonna-happen-in-a-million-years-and-if-it-does-I'm-gonna-smash-the-TV pick that a lot of folks on here are making it out to be.

But face facts: it is a possible scenario. As much as everyone here loves to speculate about gamesmanship and smoke screens, Pats have limited visits and aren't going to waste one to try to confuse people.

They brought him in to see if he was worth picking at #7 if he is there. Period.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

But face facts: it is a possible scenario. As much as everyone here loves to speculate about gamesmanship and smoke screens, Pats have limited visits and aren't going to waste one to try to confuse people.

They brought him in to see if he was worth picking at #7 if he is there. Period.

Sure they would, if they were fairly confident about who they wanted to pick already, and they felt that the added confusion might work to their advantage.

 

[patchick]

Sure they would, if they were fairly confident about who they wanted to pick already, and they felt that the added confusion might work to their advantage.

Absolutely. I do believe they bring in the guys they're most interested in, but it pays to bring in some prominent distractors, too.

 

[SamBamsFan]

I'm with last few posters. I think that they were doing their diligence- If that creates any sort of smoke screen, even better.

 

[dryheat44]

Absolutely. I do believe they bring in the guys they're most interested in, but it pays to bring in some prominent distractors, too.

I'll go one step further in that they'll start building files on some of these guys now for use when they're coming up on free agency or if a trade opportunity comes up.

 

[Kontradiction]

Well, if he is there, I take him in a heartbeat. A backfield of Maroney and McFadden and wideouts like Moss and Welker (Jackson if he gets his act together) would make our offense unstoppable. Pile 8 in the box? Okay, we'll throw it all over you. Sit back in coverage and we have our own thunder and lightning combo in Maroney and McFadden. That said, I would also take the Cowboys' two first round picks in a heartbeat to get younger and faster on defense. Draft a cornerback (Cromartie or Jenkins if still available) and move Merriweather back to safety where he belongs and also draft a fast middle LB. Ultimately I think that, however this process goes, we're in good hands on draft day.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That said, I would also take the Cowboys' two first round picks in a heartbeat to get younger and faster on defense. Draft a cornerback (Cromartie or Jenkins if still available) and move Merriweather back to safety where he belongs and also draft a fast middle LB. Ultimately I think that, however this process goes, we're in good hands on draft day.

When did he move away from safety?

 

[tombonneau]

Absolutely. I do believe they bring in the guys they're most interested in, but it pays to bring in some prominent distractors, too.

I would imagine BB + Pioli feel that the (limited) opportunity of personally working out and interviewing a player you are interested in FAR outweighs any perceived benefit of "confusing" the opposition by wasting time interviewing someone you would never draft.

Do you really think teams are keeping track of all the players every team visits with? There are simply way too many variables involved in the live draft process for this information to ever be useful or relevant.

Honestly, what exactly is the draft scenario in which the Pats will benefit from someone thinking they want to draft McFadden? I'd love to hear it.