Michael Holley: Rams Walkthrough was not Taped

[bolts_fan]

Holley also has a background at newspapers that aren't considered absolute rags. Boston Globe. Chicago Tribune. Cleveland Plain Dealer.
He's also a Pulitzer Prize winner, and a best selling author.

Good to know. It does put things into perspective then.

 

[Watson's IQ]

Good to know. It does put things into perspective then.

It's like comparing something you read in the NY Post to something you read in the NY Times, if that example makes more sense to you. The two papers (and in my mind, the two journalists) are night and day in terms of credibility.

 

[NoCal Patriot]

Good to know. It does put things into perspective then.

It all makes sense if John Tomase's source is Matt Walsh.There has been talk that He has been peddling this story to everyone for weeks.

 

[Rob0729]

It's like comparing something you read in the NY Post to something you read in the NY Times, if that example makes more sense to you. The two papers (and in my mind, the two journalists) are night and day in terms of credibility.

I don't know. I think the difference in credibility between the two NY papers aren't as far away as you think. After reading the Times' article where they quote Matt Walsh in that he has some explosive dirt on the Pats, but he ain't telling; I question their credibility too. No reputable paper should quote someone that they have damaging information against another person or organization without actually even knowing what the information is or the validity of this information.

What happened to indepent verification? What happened to validating your source? All the Times knows is that Matt Walsh did work for the Pats in the video department, but they do not know if he knows anything or any of his claims are really or he just a disgruntled employee. They portrayed him as being the NFL version of Deep Throat, but at least Deep Throat information was verfied before Woodward and Bernstein ran their story.

 

[BPF]

Ridiculous. Someone's head (um, Herald) ought to roll for this. Someone needs to be held accountable for spreading the lies and innuendoes about this. It may have been a factor in the game as it was a distraction. I am so freaking pissed about this because it was a non-story from the beginning.

I was at the SB and I can tell you that this greatly affected many Pats fans there. Once my friends and I heard this we were deflacted and many Pats fans felt the same at the game. There was a bad feeling we couldn't shake. If those two Jets' fans from NY could file a suit why can't a disgruntled Pats' fan who shelled out BIG bucks to attend the SB do the same??

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Well Holley wrote Patriot Reign and Never Give Up, the latter this past year with Bruschi, the former a few years ago and he had unfettered access to the team, meetings, Belichick, everything. Both books had serious inside stuff that give Holley impeccable credit as having trustworthy sources withing the team. So much so that it's entirely possible that Belichick is one of his sources.

Tomase gets a hit here and there but is generally a bottom feeder who'll repeat anything and hope his occasional hits are remembered more than his numerous misses.

Definitely think some of Mike Holley's sources were from outside the Patriot organization. Michael, whose resume and reputation are spotless, made his statements with such a definitive tone I feel very confident in what Michael is saying. Now let's all watch the media ignore what Michael is claiming from MULTIPLE SOURCES after they went ogasmic over Tomasse's journalistically pathetic one anonymous source story.
Anyone drop this bad boy to Mike Florio yet??

 

[Watson's IQ]

Definitely think some of Mike Holley's sources were from outside the Patriot organization. Michael, whose resume and reputation are spotless, made his statements with such a definitive tone I feel very confident in what Michael is saying. Now let's all watch the media ignore what Michael is claiming from MULTIPLE SOURCES after they went ogasmic over Tomasse's journalistically pathetic one anonymous source story.
Anyone drop this bad boy to Mike Florio yet??

Sadly, I think our best case scenario at this point is that the media will just drop it. They've shown neither the inclination nor the drive to critically examine this story and see if there are any holes. I think since nothing more inflammatory has come out, it seems to me they are just going to let it lie. This isn't the ideal outcome, since it will allow fans to continue to say things like "you cheated to win all your titles" and things like that, but from the perspective of the NFL the matter would be closed, which is all that really matters.

After the Commish gave his press conference which in my mind shed the Pats in a more forgiving light and the media glossed over it in favor of the Walsh/Rams story, which were ultimately less important but were more sensational, I gave up the last hopes I had that the Pats would end up looking good in all this. Now I just hope it goes away. For good this time.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I was at the SB and I can tell you that this greatly affected many Pats fans there. Once my friends and I heard this we were deflacted and many Pats fans felt the same at the game. There was a bad feeling we couldn't shake. If those two Jets' fans from NY could file a suit why can't a disgruntled Pats' fan who shelled out BIG bucks to attend the SB do the same??

I agree with you. Media witchhunts are ugly and very unfair The Patriots were done a huge disservice.
Things like this are why people hate the media with great intensity.

 

[marty]

Like I said, I stand to be corrected because I don't know Tomase or Holley. Or what kind of paper the Boston Herald is. But I would doubt Tomase would claim a source when he didn't have one. Granted, that source could be a drunk guy off the street, but then again I doubt that.

I think as much as it hurts you guys, you're going to have to let this run its course until it's completely dead. And I don't think it will be dead until Arlen Specter says it is. It's unfortunate and I understand how you guys feel about having this distraction, but he is a Senator and if he keeps pushing then it's really not over.

I'm seriously not sweating a bit over what the old Senator from Pa wants to do regarding Godells actions in disciplining the Pats for their rule infraction. He's an embarrassment to the state of Pa and our own Government. When did you last hear of this kind of infraction being brought before a Senate committee? This is all about the anti-trust position that the NFL enjoys and his attempts to change or challenge that. Man, some Bulls just don't know when its time to be put out to pasture!

 

[tuckeverlasting]

Sadly, I think our best case scenario at this point is that the media will just drop it. They've shown neither the inclination nor the drive to critically examine this story and see if there are any holes. I think since nothing more inflammatory has come out, it seems to me they are just going to let it lie. This isn't the ideal outcome, since it will allow fans to continue to say things like "you cheated to win all your titles" and things like that, but from the perspective of the NFL the matter would be closed, which is all that really matters.

After the Commish gave his press conference which in my mind shed the Pats in a more forgiving light and the media glossed over it in favor of the Walsh/Rams story, which were ultimately less important but were more sensational, I gave up the last hopes I had that the Pats would end up looking good in all this. Now I just hope it goes away. For good this time.

that was sickening to watch play out. espn is such a disgrace. there's a few decent people over there. the majority of them are a bag of turds.

 

[Watson's IQ]

When did you last hear of this kind of infraction being brought before a Senate committee?

Not exactly the same, but Andy Pettitte and the Texas Conman were down on Capital Hill just yesterday having a chat. But as others have pointed out, Specter's motivation is really his links to Comcast, and we were the unfortunate excuse.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

When the commish says please lets close this case once and for all, then I will feel better..

 

[kolbitr]

This board moves so quickly that this thread was already on the bottom of page 2.

Felt a need in these grim days to bump it so all can see. It's not proof, but it's a sound voice of support.

 

[BJ_McWild]

I don't care if they tape every opponent's practice and lunch breaks too.

Go PATS!!!

 

[marty]

Not exactly the same, but Andy Pettitte and the Texas Conman were down on Capital Hill just yesterday having a chat. But as others have pointed out, Specter's motivation is really his links to Comcast, and we were the unfortunate excuse.

I'd agree if the chats with Pettitte et all, were about signal stealing in baseball, but since it is about the illegal use of drugs, the situations don't compare. I'm probably too much of an apples to apples kinda person, but when comparisons are made to the CIA destroying tapes, I just pop my top before laughing hysterically! I'm still waiting to see if Goodell steps up and brings some sanity to this situation. He dropped the ball in a big way, back in Sept.

 

[Stan Musial Jr.]

Why are we believing ANYTHING just because Holley said so? He's as biased for the Pats as any "hater" is against them.

I'm with most of you on this one, though -- too many people have already found the team guilty just on a rumor that the Pats taped the Rams walk-through. Whatever happened to due process, innocent til proven, etc.?

 

[otis p. driftwood]

Why are we believing ANYTHING just because Holley said so? He's as biased for the Pats as any "hater" is against them.

I'm with most of you on this one, though -- too many people have already found the team guilty just on a rumor that the Pats taped the Rams walk-through. Whatever happened to due process, innocent til proven, etc.?

Because Holley has a track record as an honorable journalist AND has deep sources within the Patriot organization, as compared to Tomase who heard a rumor and ran with it...only to find out that his "source" bailed on him AND the rumor was just that.

 

[TheSparks1]

Why are we believing ANYTHING just because Holley said so? He's as biased for the Pats as any "hater" is against them.

I'm with most of you on this one, though -- too many people have already found the team guilty just on a rumor that the Pats taped the Rams walk-through. Whatever happened to due process, innocent til proven, etc.?

Part of me thinks that he knows the situation better because he spent a full year with the team while writing the book. On the other hand, if the team wanted to fight back against the allegations through a member of the media, Holley would be a good guy because he did spend that time with the team.

 

[BPF]

I don't care if they tape every opponent's practice and lunch breaks too.

Go PATS!!!

This stuff has been going on forever: http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_1998/wallace_101998.asp

Also acknowledged again recently by Vermeil: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/news/story?id=3230854

"Personally, I don't think it had any effect on the game," Vermeil said. "That stuff's been going on forever and I don't think you gain from it.

"As a coach, you could get too caught up in it, too," Vermeil said. "By the time you play the Super Bowl, let's face it, you've seen them in 16 games plus the playoffs. You're walking through it. That's why they play the game."

This matter has mostly to do with professional jealousy and media hate for BB than anything else. If it was another lesser coach who was media friendly or a team not as succesful that was caught, this issue would have blown over long ago. What goes around, comes around though and the coaches around the league laying low and not coming to BB's defense will get what's coming to them as will the irresponsible and unrelenting media.

I know a scout (not a Pats scout) in the NFL who told me in some of those games this year where the Pats "ran up the score" BB was sending a message to those coaches for not coming to his defense. The scout is convinced BB has personal knowledge and evidence of other teams spying as well and you only need to look as far back as this year's blowouts to find out who.

 

[NE39]

Update, from Tomase's blog:

UPDATE: League spokesman Greg Aiello said today that by contrary information, Goodell was referring to, “multiple on the record sources stating that it did not happen or that there was no evidence of it happening.”