Enough is enough...

[patfanken]

We are obviously living in two different countries, my friend.

This is a very Christian country, more Christian than any other in the whole wide world, save maybe Croatia or Poland.

That may be true as it reflect people's PERSONAL beliefs, HOWEVER the founding fathers WISELY made it very plain how important keeping the political arena a SECULAR battlleground was to the health of the nation.

Again, my problem with Dungy's religious belief has NOTHING to do with his personal and private thoughts. I would fight for his right to have those, even if I fiercely disagree with them. They have to do with his PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS. And even if he wouldn't PERSONALLY discriminate against a homosexual, his PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS and his PUBLIC noteriety give PERMISSION to those who would.

You think that we'd be smart enough to look a who is our biggest enemy in the world and make the decision NOT to beat the Taliban by becoming the Taliban.

 

[oldskool138]

And even if he wouldn't PERSONALLY discriminate against a homosexual, his PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS and his PUBLIC notoriety give PERMISSION to those who would.

Based on what you said, Marilyn Manson and Ozzy give permission to kids who want to shoot up their school.

That logic is very flawed.

 

[upstater1]

Re: enough is enough....

Fair enough...but this is the first I've heard of the Indiana Family Group. At least they're not as bad as the Westboro Baptist Church.

Remember the First Amendment is there to protect the freedom of speech of those with whom you disagree.

Right, and I support the ACLU when it defends the Ku Klux Klan, but that doesn't mean I like the Klan.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: enough is enough....

I hate to sh.i.t in your ham sandwich, but the BB vs Dungy comparison is a bit of a stretch.



Has Dungy done ANYTHING to gays to be accused of intolerance... other than say he thinks homosexuality is wrong. People are entitled to their opinions are they not? Maybe he has done something else and I don't know of it... hey, clue me in. If that's all he is guilty of though, give it a rest!

Dungy has openly supported an organization that is known for bashing Gays. He participated in a fund-raising event for them and I believe his wife is a member of their board.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: enough is enough....

Dungy has openly supported an organization that is known for bashing Gays. He participated in a fund-raising event for them and I believe his wife is a member of their board.

And what does this have to do with football?

 

[bradmahn]

My post count is (was) at 666. I figure it's best to do something about that in this thread.

 

[njpatsfan]

Please try to leave Dungy's religion and beliefs out of the argument. It was a great post up until the "intolerance" line.

BB isn't a saint either. Divorce, mistresses, expensive gifts...

Let's compare these two men by their accomplishments coaching professional football.

I agree. Best post ever ken .... up to that part. Just because the Patriots detractors are hateful and ignorant, doesn't mean that we have to be. It is a poor person indeed that can only feel good about themselves (or their favorite sports team by proxy) by saying bad things about someone else.

And the anti-religious bigotry displayed sometimes in these threads is truly disgraceful. As far as I can tell, Dungy's only 'crime' is to speak before a group that is campaigning for an amendment to a state constitution that defines marriage as being between a man and a woman. Somewhere between 65 and 75% of all Americans support some form of this - are they all 'despicable' human beings also ?

I remember when Tony Dungy's son died. There was a classy thread here where people expressed their condolences and empathized with him and his family on losing a child. Where are all those classy posters now ?

Take a cue from Bill Belichick. Shula said far worse things about the Patriots being 'tainted' than Dungy .... and Belichick had nothing but nice things to say about Shula.

As far as the media is concerned ..... it's just the biased media being the biased media. We are just on the wrong side of the agenda in this case. Happens all the time for much more important things in life.

R

 

[upstater1]

Re: enough is enough....

And what does this have to do with football?

The original post isn't about football either. What does the book "Quiet Strength" have to do with football?

Despite what one poster wrote, there has been no bashing of religion on this thread.

 

[oldskool138]

Re: enough is enough....

The original post isn't about football either. What does the book "Quiet Strength" have to do with football?

Despite what one poster wrote, there has been no bashing of religion on this thread.

From the original post: "b. One is lead by a HC who is the poster child for intolerance, even though he is a minority himself. A man who lets his own religious beliefs dictate what he thinks OTHERS should believe."

That sounds like the poster's bashing Dungy's religion to me...I could be wrong.

Considering the whole post was about football, the quoted line above sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[upstater1]

Re: enough is enough....

From the original post: "b. One is lead by a HC who is the poster child for intolerance, even though he is a minority himself. A man who lets his own religious beliefs dictate what he thinks OTHERS should believe."

That sounds like the poster's bashing Dungy's religion to me...I could be wrong.

Considering the whole post was about football, the quoted line above sticks out like a sore thumb.

Really, I thought the whole post was about football personalities, media hype, and little to do with football the game.

How is that bashing Dungy's religion again? I don't get it. He's saying that Dungy uses his beliefs to dictate what others believe. Where do you see the religious bashing there?

 

[oldskool138]

"A man who lets his own religious beliefs dictate what he thinks OTHERS should believe."

I don't think the OP wrote that as a compliment.

 

[upstater1]

"A man who lets his own religious beliefs dictate what he thinks OTHERS should believe."

I don't think the OP wrote that as a compliment.

It's a put down of Tony Dungy. not of religion. You can't see the difference? Your religious beliefs should dictate what YOU believe, not what others believe. The religious beliefs of others should dictate what they believe.

 

[oldskool138]

It's a put down of Tony Dungy. not of religion. You can't see the difference? Your religious beliefs should dictate what YOU believe, not what others believe. The religious beliefs of others should dictate what they believe.

Maybe you'll understand why I interpreted the OP's comment as bashing religion. I live on a street that has not one but two churches on it. They pester me a couple times a year to join. I asked them why when I said no the first time and it's part of their religion to get other people to join (i.e.- dictating what I should believe).

 

[Don Calhoun]

Re: enough is enough....

good stuff, ken. I sent it on as a story-idea for a media person I know. We'll see what comes of it...

I sent it to Bill Simmons' e-mail....

 

[Deus Irae]

It's a put down of Tony Dungy. not of religion. You can't see the difference? Your religious beliefs should dictate what YOU believe, not what others believe. The religious beliefs of others should dictate what they believe.

Sorry, but that's a load of nonsense. Everyone believes that EVERYONE else should believe what they believe (regarding fundamental beliefs). If this weren't true, they wouldn't believe it. The only question is the extent to which you are willing to try imposing your belief(s) upon others. Ken is online pissing and moaning about Dungy's 'beliefs' because he disagrees with them and it is Ken's belief that Dungy shouldn't be saying what he is. Ken is, therefore, being a hypocrite on the subject and trying to use the 'public' argument as an excuse.

This is why stuff like this belongs in a different forum.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: enough is enough....

The original post isn't about football either. What does the book "Quiet Strength" have to do with football?

Despite what one poster wrote, there has been no bashing of religion on this thread.

The hell it hasn't. Some of you were wearing your anti-religious bigotry on your posting sleeves. Pluralism, created in this country by a desire "to live and let live", is being drowned out by politically correct opinions. That and an unwillingness to accept YOUR contrary opinions, as the only valid Truth.

 

[upstater1]

Maybe you'll understand why I interpreted the OP's comment as bashing religion. I live on a street that has not one but two churches on it. They pester me a couple times a year to join. I asked them why when I said no the first time and it's part of their religion to get other people to join (i.e.- dictating what I should believe).

I find dictating to someone UnAmerican.

But there's a difference between proselytizing and dictating. Proselytizing is a part of many religions. Enforcing those beliefs on you is another thing.

 

[upstater1]

Sorry, but that's a load of nonsense. Everyone believes that EVERYONE else should believe what they believe (regarding fundamental beliefs). If this weren't true, they wouldn't believe it. The only question is the extent to which you are willing to try imposing your belief(s) upon others. Ken is online pissing and moaning about Dungy's 'beliefs' because he disagrees with them and it is Ken's belief that Dungy shouldn't be saying what he is. Ken is, therefore, being a hypocrite on the subject and trying to use the 'public' argument as an excuse.

This is why stuff like this belongs in a different forum.

Nah, you seem to have glossed over the links that prove the groups Dungy associates himself with (and wife sits on the board) go far beyond proselytizing. I gave a link that showed this group was in with Ted Haggard's gang. I have no problem with his beliefs (although I would argue that being anti-gay in a Christian context has nothing to do with Christianity since it comes from a misreading of the bible). But the group he fundraises for wants to end civil unions (this isn't gay marriage we're talking about) and prevent hate-crime bills protecting gay people. That goes far beyond proselytizing. Don't you agree?

 

[upstater1]

Re: enough is enough....

The hell it hasn't. Some of you were wearing your anti-religious bigotry on your posting sleeves. Pluralism, created in this country by a desire "to live and let live", is being drowned out by politically correct opinions. That and an unwillingness to accept YOUR contrary opinions, as the only valid Truth.

Show me one post. prove it!!!!!

 

[bradmahn]

Re: enough is enough....

The hell it hasn't. Some of you were wearing your anti-religious bigotry on your posting sleeves. Pluralism, created in this country by a desire "to live and let live", is being drowned out by politically correct opinions. That and an unwillingness to accept YOUR contrary opinions, as the only valid Truth.

And some of you are wearing your religious bigotry on your posting sleeves. Dungy spoke out against a way of life, if he doesn't want people to criticize his way of life, he should keep quiet. He put himself in a public forum as a public figure, it is perfectly acceptable to criticize him as such.

Pluralism is everything this man is against, so don't bring it up as if the "left wing, politically correct agenda" is hindering its existence in this country.