Enough is enough...

[Pats726]

While all this discussion is interesting...especially to me Dungy's links to these groups that are VERY anti-gay...one would wonder if CoachB had similar links to say some leftist group what the media would be saying?? IN a larger picture..a public figure needs to undesrtand that they are a lighning rod for others who may have different beliefs than they do. Surprised that Dungy has gotten a pass on all that...

 

[patfanken]

Whoa, Whoa Whoa, Enough of this religious talk (after I get my 2cents in, of course. ) Lets get this thread back on point. I want to help end the media conspiracy to diminish my team's honor and integrity on a daily basis and thus help ruin the pleasure I should be having this season.

If you have a problem with my comments about Dungy, there is plenty of OTHER negative items concerning the Colts and their ownship that could be used in a PR campaign to COUNTER what we have had to endure. REMEMBER that's the original reason to post the thread in the first place.

That being said I want to make a couple of quick comments concerning some of the comments made in this thread.

1. One quick question to Llyod concerning whether homosexuality is a choice or nature, I ask the following question. Given how the general population views and treats homosexuals, do you think its LOGICAL that if given a CHOICE someone would CHOOSE to be a homosexual????

2. I think people have question whether it is right to question Dungy's religious beliefs. YOU ARE RIGHT! I DON'T have a right to question Dungy's religious beliefs. What I DO have a right to do is to question how he projects HIS beliefs on others, who might not believe as he does.

Tolerance means accepting OTHERS beliefs as you would your own, and NOT DEMAND that they believe as you do, as long as they don't directly create a threat to harm you. That's what Dungy failed to do, and in my opinion that is a character flaw in an open democratic society.

I think its reasonable to question whether that is an appropriate criticism, true or false. The fact is that in this media blitz, BB's character has been questioned BEYOND realm of football, so I thought it was fair to question Dungy's.

BOTTOM LINE: If you disagree, don't use THAT criticism, but don't let it stop the overall effort to combat this media attack that is keeping me from FULLY realizing the pleasure this season has to offer us.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: enough is enough....

And what does this have to do with football?

Maybe you shouldn't open your mouth and jump into a conversation that you clearly don't understand. And please don't say that you do because if you did, you wouldn't have posted your response.

Tony Dungy being Christian has nothing to do with football. Yet, on NATIONAL TV he was touting it to everyone saying how it was the religion that he shared with Lovie Smith that got them both to the SB.

The fact is that Tony Dungy has clearly demonstrated that he can keep his religious beliefs to himself and felt the NEED to impress upon everyone that it was his beliefs that got him there. As if they should be the beliefs of everyone and then they'd be successful like him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whoa, Whoa Whoa, Enough of this religious talk (after I get my 2cents in, of course. ) Lets get this thread back on point. I want to help end the media conspiracy to diminish my team's honor and integrity on a daily basis and thus help ruin the pleasure I should be having this season.

If you have a problem with my comments about Dungy, there is plenty of OTHER negative items concerning the Colts and their ownship that could be used in a PR campaign to COUNTER what we have had to endure. REMEMBER that's the original reason to post the thread in the first place.

That being said I want to make a couple of quick comments concerning some of the comments made in this thread.

1. One quick question to Llyod concerning whether homosexuality is a choice or nature, I ask the following question. Given how the general population views and treats homosexuals, do you think its LOGICAL that if given a CHOICE someone would CHOOSE to be a homosexual????

2. I think people have question whether it is right to question Dungy's religious beliefs. YOU ARE RIGHT! I DON'T have a right to question Dungy's religious beliefs. What I DO have a right to do is to question how he projects HIS beliefs on others, who might not believe as he does.

Tolerance means accepting OTHERS beliefs as you would your own, and NOT DEMAND that they believe as you do, as long as they don't directly create a threat to harm you. That's what Dungy failed to do, and in my opinion that is a character flaw in an open democratic society.

I think its reasonable to question whether that is an appropriate criticism, true or false. The fact is that in this media blitz, BB's character has been questioned BEYOND realm of football, so I thought it was fair to question Dungy's.

BOTTOM LINE: If you disagree, don't use THAT criticism, but don't let it stop the overall effort to combat this media attack that is keeping me from FULLY realizing the pleasure this season has to offer us.

Complain about Dungy's religious/political views and actions all you want, IN THE APPROPRIATE FORUM. Think of it as a time/place/manner restriction on the first amendment if it helps.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: enough is enough....

Absolutely NOTHING. But neither does Dungy being Christian. Yet, on NATIONAL TV he was touting it to everyone saying how it was the religion that he shared with Lovie Smith that got them both to the SB.

The fact is that Tony Dungy uses his celebrity status during football times to tout his own PERSONAL issues.

When he does this on Patsfans.com, I promise to tell him to take it to the political forum too.

 

[oldskool138]

1. One quick question to Llyod concerning whether homosexuality is a choice or nature, I ask the following question. Given how the general population views and treats homosexuals, do you think its LOGICAL that if given a CHOICE someone would CHOOSE to be a homosexual????

Mind if I chime in?

1. Based on my personal experience, I believe that homosexuality is a choice. I know three people (two girls and a guy) who have "played for the other team". One was the mom of one of my friends (married, had two kids, divorced, then switched preferences), another one was a girl who I dated for a while in high school (didn't switch sides right after dating me...it was two years later). She is now married to a guy and has a kid. The last was a guy I knew who was in my group of friends a little while back. He was gay for the longest time and now he's married to a girl and has a kid on the way.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

1. One quick question to Llyod concerning whether homosexuality is a choice or nature, I ask the following question. Given how the general population views and treats homosexuals, do you think its LOGICAL that if given a CHOICE someone would CHOOSE to be a homosexual????

As I tried to explain, there are factors on both sides that affect the decision.
The negative effect of societal norms is only one factor against it. Our own desires often override such factors.

I don't have a problem with the choice. If that's what did it for me, I might choose the same... who knows? However, I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with me about whether or not it was ok. People are free to disagree... it doesn't make them bad people.

BOTTOM LINE: If you disagree, don't use THAT criticism, but don't let it stop the overall effort to combat this media attack that is keeping me from FULLY realizing the pleasure this season has to offer us.

I agree. I'll stop rocking the boat. The Colts are EVIL! The Patriots are GOOD! GOOD will prevail!

 

[upstater1]

While all this discussion is interesting...especially to me Dungy's links to these groups that are VERY anti-gay...one would wonder if CoachB had similar links to say some leftist group what the media would be saying?? IN a larger picture..a public figure needs to undesrtand that they are a lighning rod for others who may have different beliefs than they do. Surprised that Dungy has gotten a pass on all that...

Well, Belichick does counsel prisoners. I suppose there have to be a few Willie Horton types in the people he lends an ear to.

 

[Bella*chick]

I agree. I'll stop rocking the boat. The Colts are EVIL! The Patriots are GOOD! GOOD will prevail!

How about....the Colts and Pats are human. Humanity is humanity. And isn't this supposed to be football and not philanthropy?

I used to get angry when I read and listened to all the bad stuff being said about us. Then I just stopped reading and listening, because ultimately it doesn't matter. It just doesn't.

 

[Pats726]

Well, Belichick does counsel prisoners. I suppose there have to be a few Willie Horton types in the people he lends an ear to.

I am sure he does a LOT of things...but I wondered what if he did similar things to what Dungy is doing...like supporting some left wing cause in the same way as Dungy...What would the media be saying?? If anything...
What organization is Mrs Dungy on the Board of..JUST curious...

 

[upstater1]

I am sure he does a LOT of things...but I wondered what if he did similar things to what Dungy is doing...like supporting some left wing cause in the same way as Dungy...What would the media be saying?? If anything...
What organization is Mrs Dungy on the Board of..JUST curious...

Like I said, they could spin it as though Belichick is evil for sympathizing with Willie Horton.

Indiana Family Group is the name of the organization. They are aligned to stop civil unions, hate crime legislation, and gay rights legislation (i.e. hospital visitation for partners, etc.)

 

[BradyManny]

Re: enough is enough....

Dungy thinks same-sex intercourse is wrong. He condemns the act. If someone struggled with homosexuality, but was trying to avoid acting on it, Dungy would undoubtedly support helping them.

************, did you just arrive in a time machine from the 1950s? Your viewpoint - or Dungy's, and your defense of his viewpoint - is naive, ignorant and bigoted, and I expect you've never spent any amount of time with a homosexual. You can believe whatever you want, but at some point, the odds are pretty likely that you (and all of us) will end up with a brother, sister, son, daughter, cousin, friend who happens to be gay, and your archaic beliefs will likely be shattered.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Complain about Dungy's religious/political views and actions all you want, IN THE APPROPRIATE FORUM. Think of it as a time/place/manner restriction on the first amendment if it helps.

I think Patfancan may choose to direct HIS thread however he chooses. Especially since his topic is not specifically on the subject of football. Deus Irae, may I suggest you go back and read the opening to his thread? It discusses BB's image and how he is portrayed relative to Tony Dungy and several other comparison that have nothing to do with football, but everything to do with the Patriots and their (Belichick's) image.

So politics & religion are fair game in this discussion as they relate to BB & Dungy.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Patfancan may choose to direct HIS thread however he chooses. Especially since his topic is not specifically on the subject of football. Deus Irae, may I suggest you go back and read the opening to his thread? It discusses BB's image and how he is portrayed relative to Tony Dungy and several other comparison that have nothing to do with football, but everything to do with the Patriots and their (Belichick's) image.

So politics & religion are fair game in this discussion as they relate to BB & Dungy.

It doesn't belong in a thread on the main board, and you know it. Your post is just an attempt to shoehorn it in. Here's the problem:

Homosexual marriage ≠ football and not Patriots related
Civil union ≠ football and not Patriots related
Dungy's 'right' to speak about his beliefs outside of football ≠ football and not Patriots related
The death of Dungy's son ≠ football and not Patriots related