Sign Moss long term now.....

[BradyToMoss]

They should keep BOTH Stallworth and Moss...long term..THAT would be what is best...

I'm all for that, I just don't see that as being realisitic.

 

[Neely8]

Huh? He wouldn't be any better in a Skins uniform than he would have been in Oakland. He's better because he has a HOF QB now. Campbell is hardly someone who is going to help Moss' numbers.

I think Moss would be better in Washington than he was in Oakland, but certainly not as good as he is now with B&B.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wouldn't they have to make some mid-season cuts and restructuring of some deals to make something happen before the off season?

No, they wouldn't.. The Pats still have 5 mill in cap space.

However, I don't believe that they can do anything until the end of the season.

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree, I love Stallworth and what he brings to the table as well as his age, he's still very, very young by NFL standards. But if the Pats pick up his option, I just can't there being any money left over for Randy Terradactle.

That's because you aren't bothering to look at how much money the Pats have in free cap space for next year. You also aren't bothering to take into consideration that the Pats can change the option bonus for both Stallworth and Washington into a signing bonus and spread the hit over the remaining contract. Or the Pats can just cut Washington..

There are many things the Pats can do to free up money.. Including giving Brady an extension...

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That's because you aren't bothering to look at how much money the Pats have in free cap space for next year. You also aren't bothering to take into consideration that the Pats can change the option bonus for both Stallworth and Washington into a signing bonus and spread the hit over the remaining contract. Or the Pats can just cut Washington..

There are many things the Pats can do to free up money.. Including giving Brady an extension...

Well, we know BB's contract runs through 2013 . . .

 

[tedy hagler]

As good (and young) as Stallworth is, I think the Patriots could realistically milk 2 more Super Bowls with today's team and salary cap issues--Moss would get the deal, with Stallworth walking.

Moss-Welker arguably also form a more unique cover problem for defenses than Stallworth-Welker (although both combinations are cruel and unusual punishment for most teams).

Which begs the question in 2008 season
27 yr old stallworth vs 32 yr old moss for a 4 yr contract.

 

[Crazyeechrispats1]

I see both Moss and Stallworth back next season and Goodell being admitted to a mental institution as well

 

[Va_Pats_Fan]

Thanks for that dollar grid. Bottom line is this, BB will not invest top dollars into 2 star wideouts, the CAP room just isn't there and I highly doubt both guys will be willing to take the home town discount. BB will have to choose which guy makes more sense for the long term and go with that guy and let Chad Jackson move into the other role.

I beg to differ. The cap room is there. There is about 5 mil this year that will be pushed forward, and cut washington, and thats another 5. Thats 10 million next year right there. Not even touching Colvins 7M hit with an extension, or looking @ extending Brady. Bringing in Moss at 5-6M a year is easily doable. Thats with Keeping Stallworth.

 

[Crazyeechrispats1]

I think we can make cap Brady does a mild restructure and Matt Light he seems like a team guy.
Bruschi, Seau, Harrison Brown retire.
Samuel walks in free agency,
That leaves room to pick up the option on Stallworth, resign Moss
If he leaves for more money I will be shocked.
He's creating a legacy with the Patriots.
That leaves the Patriots to replace our linebackers thru the draft.
Which shouldn't be so hard where I see Bruschi and maybe Seau coming back to coach in some capacity with the team.
Who better to learn from.
If Mcdaniels leaves the Wr coach Nick I think could be bumped to cordinator and
Mr Brown could coach the WRs giving Moss another reason to stick around and a hell of a shadow roster at wideout to boot.
But that's just my dream.

 

[Xzibit23]

Ideally, both Stallworth and Moss will be Pats next year, but lets be realistic about who option 1 is in the case this becomes either/or. Moss is 30...and he will be 31 for the duration of the 2008 season..so inking him to a 3-4 extension will take him through ages 33-34..assumng he stays injury free, there's no reason to believe he wont be elite for the duration, if not even longer.

Stallworth is a good receiver, but his ceiling is probably 1.000 Yds for 9-10 TDs...and thats an absolute breakout year. Moss did that in his first season with the Raiders, and people called that a bad season. We're talking two different levels of receiver here.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Ideally, both Stallworth and Moss will be Pats next year, but lets be realistic about who option 1 is in the case this becomes either/or. Moss is 30...and he will be 31 for the duration of the 2008 season..so inking him to a 3-4 extension will take him through ages 33-34..assumng he stays injury free, there's no reason to believe he wont be elite for the duration, if not even longer.

Stallworth is a good receiver, but his ceiling is probably 1.000 Yds for 9-10 TDs...and thats an absolute breakout year. Moss did that in his first season with the Raiders, and people called that a bad season. We're talking two different levels of receiver here.

I think if it comes down to an either/or the Pats brass will have to take Donte's injury history into account also. For the most part, Randy has been pretty durable his whole career.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm all for that, I just don't see that as being realisitic.

We've done this exercise several times over the last couple of weeks, but I guess you missed it. Stallworth's deal is fine. Don't let the media spin fool you. His option bonus is no different than a signing bonus, and Deion got more in his deal. The cap can be manipulated via conversion to the point he costs less than Deion for a couple of years and a little more at the backend when the cap will be dramatically increasing.

Stallworth is already penciled in via his long term deal, so that is accounted for. Washington is already penciled in on the books at $5.7M next year as well. He isn't going to see that. It would however cover a substantial chunk of Randy's 3-4 year extension. An extension for Colvin would cut his $7M cap in half, providing more than the remainder of Randy's "space" for 2008, and Brady will be extended before 2009 freeing up some cap space for his WR as well. Even if he has to squeeze a little on the defenses budget, that's OK in the presence of an offense that can keep them off the field or routinely defending double digit leads at the half.

Signing one or both of Gay and Samuel is also doable provided neither is looking for a delusional deal. Samuel absent 10 picks and a ton of buzz on a team where the focus this year is on offense may be a lot more reasonable now that he has $8M in the bank. If Rodney remains he will quietly take another cut, as he did this year, and Bruschi may well opt to stay on the one year veteran type deal Junior has been playing under. That would have us operating a pretty well stocked roster with room to spare. We are currently about $6M under the cap, which if not used will be rolled over onto the $7M we were projected to be under the 2008 cap (and that was $13M under with Stallworth and another $5.7M WR ALREADY ACCOUNTED FOR on the roster, and before any adjustments like Colvin being extended and several potential simple restructures including to Brady if they need cap).

I think we are in pretty good shape, including to get Gay and Asante (or Wilson) extended or replaced as we choose to while adding a veteran or two to the defense as needed.

 

[alamo]

After the season the defense will most likely be obviously much weaker than the offense (even after losing Randy and Dante), so the excess cap room will go to that side of the ball. People think this year was a change in philosophy for the Patriots, but it was not. They have always been about value and the offense was where the value was this year.

if stallworth performs and gets cut i assure you that will be the end of deals like stallworth ,dillion,washington and even moss for the patriots. they could never say play 1 yr and prove your are worth your contract in the future.

Not true, Stallworth and Moss knew going in it was one year to showcase themselves for everyone, not just to get paid by the Patriots.

 

[satz]

Not true, Stallworth and Moss knew going in it was one year to showcase themselves for everyone, not just to get paid by the Patriots.

Yes , but many would be scared of a avg year which did contribute to the team but the team decided to expel them leaving them worse than the start. also stallworth took the risk with no moss signing so his expectation of his role might have changed. I am not saying its imposible but just that other players might view that unfavourably.

 

[solman]

Wouldn't they have to make some mid-season cuts and restructuring of some deals to make something happen before the off season?

No they wouldn't. Its common for new deals to keep the same cap hit in place for the current year.

Even if that weren't the case, we still have some maneuvering room ($5-8M) to fit a deal into this year's cap.

Our 2008 cap is tight, although we have nearly a full team signed up. If we want to maintain close to this year's skill level, we'll need to back load some money.

Our 2009 cap has plenty of maneuvering room, but in 2010 we lose a ton of great players.

If it were up to me I'd:

1. Wait until the offseason
2. Sign Brady and Moss long term (2013) with back loaded deals.
3. Negotiate cap reducing extensions with Colvin and Faulk.
4. Part ways with Stallworth if he won't accept a lesser deal moving forward.
5. Part ways with Washington.
6. Try to find a replacement for Bruschi/Seau in FA.
7. Designate 2010 a rebuilding year, and use our first day picks in 2009/2010 to replace those departing veterans who we can't (or don't want to) sign to contracts that maintain the Patriots discount.

 

[zoostation]

If I were you, I'd probably want to see Moss locked into a long term contract before Snyder comes sniffing around willing to throw a ton of draft picks your way. He's an awesome player. Imagine what he could do in a Skins' uniform...

Why in the world would he leave the Patriots to play for an inferior NFC team?

 

[BradyToMoss]

We've done this exercise several times over the last couple of weeks, but I guess you missed it. Stallworth's deal is fine. Don't let the media spin fool you. His option bonus is no different than a signing bonus, and Deion got more in his deal. The cap can be manipulated via conversion to the point he costs less than Deion for a couple of years and a little more at the backend when the cap will be dramatically increasing.

Stallworth is already penciled in via his long term deal, so that is accounted for. Washington is already penciled in on the books at $5.7M next year as well. He isn't going to see that. It would however cover a substantial chunk of Randy's 3-4 year extension. An extension for Colvin would cut his $7M cap in half, providing more than the remainder of Randy's "space" for 2008, and Brady will be extended before 2009 freeing up some cap space for his WR as well. Even if he has to squeeze a little on the defenses budget, that's OK in the presence of an offense that can keep them off the field or routinely defending double digit leads at the half.

Signing one or both of Gay and Samuel is also doable provided neither is looking for a delusional deal. Samuel absent 10 picks and a ton of buzz on a team where the focus this year is on offense may be a lot more reasonable now that he has $8M in the bank. If Rodney remains he will quietly take another cut, as he did this year, and Bruschi may well opt to stay on the one year veteran type deal Junior has been playing under. That would have us operating a pretty well stocked roster with room to spare. We are currently about $6M under the cap, which if not used will be rolled over onto the $7M we were projected to be under the 2008 cap (and that was $13M under with Stallworth and another $5.7M WR ALREADY ACCOUNTED FOR on the roster, and before any adjustments like Colvin being extended and several potential simple restructures including to Brady if they need cap).

I think we are in pretty good shape, including to get Gay and Asante (or Wilson) extended or replaced as we choose to while adding a veteran or two to the defense as needed.

Great info, yes I did miss the topic earlier.

But I'll say this, Asante is gone, he is long gone after this season. Gay will be his replacement and I honestly feel like the Pats don't want Wilson back, his play has dropped off big time as well all know even with Rodney back, the kid isn't making plays like he used to. Consider Wilson and Samuel both gone. Meriweather (I know lots of work to do) will replace Wilson with a low dollar cap number and Gay will slide into Sante's spot (freeing up HUGE BUCKS). As usual, we'll draft about 3-4 corners this year, I can see us taking a corner with both 3rd round picks we have, if not in Round 2. This will be depth behind Hobbs and Gay.

 

[mgteich]

.....money?

Why in the world would he leave the Patriots to play for an inferior NFC team?

 

[BradyManny]

I didn't read this whole thread, maybe this has been said - but Reiss mentioned in his recent mailbag that Moss and the Pats can't negotiate until the end of the season per CBA rules.

 

[mgteich]

I think that we are in fine 2008 cap shape. We have 42 signed. Assume minimums for the rest, except for RFA Wright at $2M and we have a full roster with no changes. We also have $6M to roll over to cover SB and other bonuses.

OFFENSE 25 (24 signed; I include ERFA's Eckel and Britt as signed)
We've allocated $5.7M for our 4th WR Washington. That money can be used for Moss. His 2008 cap won't be more. We will need a fifth wide receiver. Assume Washington or Gaffney for short money.

DEFENSE/ST 28 (23 signed including ERFA's Alexander and Woods)

The defensive line is all set, with all seven signed.

We are short two linebackers, two defensive backs and a long snapper.
We need to re-sign or replace Bruschi, Seau, Samuel, Gay and Paxton. I presume that Wilson has been replaced by Sanders, Meriweather and Andrews.

The money can come from restructures/extensions of Brady, Light and Colvin, the normal source of cap money.

These five or others could be re-signed or replaced by rookies or free agents.

We've done this exercise several times over the last couple of weeks, but I guess you missed it. Stallworth's deal is fine. Don't let the media spin fool you. His option bonus is no different than a signing bonus, and Deion got more in his deal. The cap can be manipulated via conversion to the point he costs less than Deion for a couple of years and a little more at the backend when the cap will be dramatically increasing.

Stallworth is already penciled in via his long term deal, so that is accounted for. Washington is already penciled in on the books at $5.7M next year as well. He isn't going to see that. It would however cover a substantial chunk of Randy's 3-4 year extension. An extension for Colvin would cut his $7M cap in half, providing more than the remainder of Randy's "space" for 2008, and Brady will be extended before 2009 freeing up some cap space for his WR as well. Even if he has to squeeze a little on the defenses budget, that's OK in the presence of an offense that can keep them off the field or routinely defending double digit leads at the half.

Signing one or both of Gay and Samuel is also doable provided neither is looking for a delusional deal. Samuel absent 10 picks and a ton of buzz on a team where the focus this year is on offense may be a lot more reasonable now that he has $8M in the bank. If Rodney remains he will quietly take another cut, as he did this year, and Bruschi may well opt to stay on the one year veteran type deal Junior has been playing under. That would have us operating a pretty well stocked roster with room to spare. We are currently about $6M under the cap, which if not used will be rolled over onto the $7M we were projected to be under the 2008 cap (and that was $13M under with Stallworth and another $5.7M WR ALREADY ACCOUNTED FOR on the roster, and before any adjustments like Colvin being extended and several potential simple restructures including to Brady if they need cap).

I think we are in pretty good shape, including to get Gay and Asante (or Wilson) extended or replaced as we choose to while adding a veteran or two to the defense as needed.