NFL.com : Brady Greatest QB ever

[Fixit]

You can't ignore the fact that it is much easier to pass in today's game than it was when Elway played. Elway was much better than Eli. Rodgers sort of reminds me of him in that Elway was so physically gifted for the position. He would make throws that would just wow you. Such as rolling out to his right and then throwing a laser 30 yards down the left side of the field. He was fun to watch. As for his success vs. Eli, his regular season record was 148-82 vs. Eli's 100-89. His post season record was. 14-7 vs. 8-3 for Eli. He was a 9 time pro bowler while Eli has been selected 4 times. It's really no contest.

Well, Pro Bowls mean literally nothing. Eli actually has a better postseason win percentage. And despite the rules when Elway played, other QBs managed to avoid throwing such a ridiculous number of picks while still having a much more robust completion percentage.

So, I think it is a contest.

Still, I'm not here to make the case for Eli, I'm using his career to illustrate why Elway shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the above all-time greats. If making some great throws and being fun to watch is enough, then Mike Vick is a Hall of Famer.

Edit: And how come a guy like Steve Young never gets mentioned? That guy was awesome.

 

[1960Pats]

I'd put Brees ahead of Elway.Elway couldn't hit the broadside of a barn for much of his career.

Marino is still very high up there for me. He was not just a good passer. He was an excellent QB. Great pocket presence, perhaps no one better ever in the pocket--except for Brady. Surely Marino had the quickest release. He was even more immobile than Brady--and he had a horrible temper that betrayed his leadership. The Dolphins of the 1980s were basically all Marino. Sure, they had the Killer Bs defense, but go back and try to remember any of those guys with B in their names. Budzinski? Uh....

Marino's quick release was really noticeable when he had those lousy teams and the Pats defense would come in on him untouched. He could still accurately hit a pass downfield.

 

[Tony2046]

Can someone explain why Elway always makes these lists? Eli has the same number of rings, more TDs, less picks, a better completion percentage, and a higher QB rating.

I'm certainly not arguing that Eli is an all-time great QB, I'm wondering why so many people seem to think that Elway (or Aikman, for that matter) is up there with the legends. Elway as a QB was, I dunno, above average.

Because he gets extra credit for being the first QB ( Zolak was the 2nd ) to truly represent the team's logo.

 

[Tony2046]

i think its because his teams went to the superbowl many (5) times, and he won the last two championships before he retired

The Drive 1, the Drive 2, the Helicopter run.

 

[anditsgood]

Well, Pro Bowls mean literally nothing. Eli actually has a better postseason win percentage. And despite the rules when Elway played, other QBs managed to avoid throwing such a ridiculous number of picks while still having a much more robust completion percentage.

So, I think it is a contest.

Still, I'm not here to make the case for Eli, I'm using his career to illustrate why Elway shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the above all-time greats. If making some great throws and being fun to watch is enough, then Mike Vick is a Hall of Famer.

Edit: And how come a guy like Steve Young never gets mentioned? That guy was awesome.

Much agreed, i think it was his limited time playing

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Remember when Brady's numbers were going to decline greatly because all of his success was because he was using under inflated footballs?

Has anyone come out and pointed to Brady's numbers over the last year to show what an absolute farce that whole thing was?

 

[anditsgood]

The Drive 1, the Drive 2, the Helicopter run.

that will always be burnt in my brain, what an awesome finish to a drive, perhaps the one that made him a winner vs the one that often came up short

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

One of the things that hurts PEDton is the fact that the only two SBs he won were not because of him. That can't be said about his 9 one-and-dones.

BrINT Favre being on the list is also a disgrace. He was the Carl Yastrzemski of the NFL. He was a good to great player but longevity was his true claim to fame.

Cough, cough, cough, Terrel Davis begs to differ with you.......

 

[letekro]

This is about quarterbacks......not passers. Quarterbacks win multiple Super Bowls, championships, lead their teams AND are passers.

1. Brady
2. Montana
3. Starr
4. Bradshaw
5. Graham
6. Unitas
7. Staubach
8. Elway
9. P. Manning
10. Roethlisberger

A list of just passers is completely different.

You mean, quarterbacks are surrounded by great teams and coaches, while passers arent. Give Marino Belichick and the Patriots defenses of the early 2000s and he goes from a "passer" to a "quarterback" overnight.

 

[Tony2046]

You mean, quarterbacks are surrounded by great teams and coaches, while passers arent. Give Marino Belichick and the Patriots defenses of the early 2000s and he goes from a "passer" to a "quarterback" overnight.

Did you just slap Don Shilla?

 

[RobertWeathers]

You mean, quarterbacks are surrounded by great teams and coaches, while passers arent. Give Marino Belichick and the Patriots defenses of the early 2000s and he goes from a "passer" to a "quarterback" overnight.

I disagree. Dan was too selfish of a player. You can argue that Shula enabled him but I don't think Marino could play or lead a team the way BB would have wanted him too.

 

[upstater1]

I used to watch Elway drive the ball into the ground regularly. He had horrible mechanics that made him highly inconsistent. Yes, he could throw off his off foot, yes he was a great athlete, but give me Warren Moon over Elway for that era.

 

[NashuaPats]

Well, Pro Bowls mean literally nothing. Eli actually has a better postseason win percentage. And despite the rules when Elway played, other QBs managed to avoid throwing such a ridiculous number of picks while still having a much more robust completion percentage.

So, I think it is a contest.

Still, I'm not here to make the case for Eli, I'm using his career to illustrate why Elway shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as the above all-time greats. If making some great throws and being fun to watch is enough, then Mike Vick is a Hall of Famer.

Edit: And how come a guy like Steve Young never gets mentioned? That guy was awesome.

Elway made it to the Super Bowl 5 times. Brady is the only other QB to equal that. That as well has how played the game (his teams totally relied on him until Terrell Davis) is why he's on these lists. Granted he lost 3 out of 5, but it's still a great accomplishment. He made it to the playoffs 10 times in 16 seasons, also a great accomplishment. As you pointed out, Eli has a better postseason winning percentage, but he has only reached the playoffs 5 times (in 4 fewer seasons).

I agree with you that Young deserves more attention, but the fact he only reached one Super Bowl as a starter hurts his case.

 

[letekro]

I disagree. Dan was too selfish of a player. You can argue that Shula enabled him but I don't think Marino could play or lead a team the way BB would have wanted him too.

Marino was a fiery competitor just like Brady, was deadly accurate, just like Brady, moved in the pocket like a ballerina, just like Brady, and set records throwing the ball just like Brady. Your charge of selfishness is unfounded, IMO. Was he selfish because the coaches called a lot of pass plays because they spent their money on receivers and not running backs? Was he selfish because they had to throw a lot to comepensate for their defense getting torched? By all means if you have evidence of Marino not wanting to win or not being a team player please bring it forward. But, to my eyes, the guy desperately wanted to win and played theough a lot of injuries to try to make that happen.

He was simply held back by poor team building and old school, unimaginative coaching.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Marino was a fiery competitor just like Brady, was deadly accurate, just like Brady, moved in the pocket like a ballerina, just like Brady, and set records throwing the ball just like Brady. Your charge of selfishness is unfounded, IMO. Was he selfish because the coaches called a lot of pass plays because they spent their money on receivers and not running backs? Was he selfish because they had to throw a lot to comepensate for their defense getting torched? By all means if you have evidence of Marino not wanting to win or not being a team player please bring it forward. But, to my eyes, the guy desperately wanted to win and played theough a lot of injuries to try to make that happen.

He was simply held back by poor team building and old school, unimaginative coaching.

He was not as accurate or took care of the football like Brady does.

He had decent defenses early and late in his career and could never take his team to the promise land.

He refused to do the little things from a game management perspective to win.

He was selfish. Period. Loved his stats.

We can stop here because you will never convince me otherwise.

 

[Ring 6]

Top 6 is set in stone. No order:

Brady
Montana
Starr
Baugh
Graham
Unitas

The line forms after that.

Your list is severely lacking recency bias.

 

[1960Pats]

Marino was a fiery competitor just like Brady, was deadly accurate, just like Brady, moved in the pocket like a ballerina, just like Brady, and set records throwing the ball just like Brady. Your charge of selfishness is unfounded, IMO. Was he selfish because the coaches called a lot of pass plays because they spent their money on receivers and not running backs? Was he selfish because they had to throw a lot to comepensate for their defense getting torched? By all means if you have evidence of Marino not wanting to win or not being a team player please bring it forward. But, to my eyes, the guy desperately wanted to win and played theough a lot of injuries to try to make that happen.

He was simply held back by poor team building and old school, unimaginative coaching.

Marino's problem was one that many QBs have. He had so much confidence in his ability that he would force the ball at times. He wasn't as careless as PEDton and BrINT Favre though.

 

[letekro]

He was not as accurate or took care of the football like Brady does.

He had decent defenses early and late in his career and could never take his team to the promise land.

He refused to do the little things from a game management perspective to win.

He was selfish. Period. Loved his stats.

We can stop here because you will never convince me otherwise.

You claim "selfishness" or some other intangible, unprovable element specific to Marino and Brady is the difference. I stand by the difference being the things that are tangible and obviously heavily in favor of Brady--surrounding personnel, particularly on defense, and coaching. I know you wont be convinced.

 

[Ring 6]

Marino's problem was one that many QBs have. He had so much confidence in his ability that he would force the ball at times. He wasn't as careless as PEDton and BrINT Favre though.

Marinos problem was that he couldn't produce in big games.
Ironically people overrate him saying he did it alone simply because Shula chose the throw the ball too much and then give him a pass for failing in the post season because how can you expect him to do it himself.
Miami out good teams around him that got into a position to win in the post season and time and again they failed BECAUSE of marinos play.

 

[Tony2046]

You claim "selfishness" or some other intangible, unprovable element specific to Marino and Brady is the difference. I stand by the difference being the things that are tangible and obviously heavily in favor of Brady--surrounding personnel, particularly on defense, and coaching. I know you wont be convinced.

Well....

If you are going without the intangibles you would have to add things like:

Don Shula is the all time winningest coach with a higher win % than BB.

Tom Brady went to SB 45 with the 2nd worst rated defense in the league that year.

Give Marino Belichick and the Patriots defenses of the early 2000s and he goes from a "passer" to a "quarterback" overnight.

I'll match your speculation with, "If you gave Don Shula Tom Brady he would have won two more Super Bowls"