OT: Eagles release Chip Kelly

[sieglo]

He should have stuck with Tebow.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Outside of Jerry Jones, name all the owners who got so meddlesome that they drove away 3 time Super Bowl winning coaches.

Well, Art Modell fired 3x NFL and 4xAAFC champion coach Paul Brown back in the 60's. So there's that......

 

[reflexblue]

Good, i got sick and tired of hearing what a 'genius' this guy was when he hadn't won anything.

 

[Deus Irae]

“It was a clear and important decision that had to be made,” Lurie said, adding that he made a “three-year evaluation” of Kelly’s tenure as head coach.

Lurie expects Kelly to succeed in his next stop, whether that’s in the NFL or back to college, and he spoke highly of Kelly as a coach.

“Nobody worked harder the last three years. A smart guy, it was a bold decision to hire him, and he had, certainly, some success. I wish him the very best, as I did yesterday,” Lurie said. “But the end result was mediocrity, and as the owner of the team I’ve got to look at the progress and the trajectory of where it’s headed.”

Jeffrey Lurie: Firing Chip Kelly a “decision that had to be made”

"Trajectory" before Kelly's arrival:

10-6
8-8
4-12

Kelly Arrives and takes 4-12 team to

10-6
10-6
6-9 (incomplete season)

 

[Danger Zone]

Well, Art Modell fired 3x NFL and 4xAAFC champion coach Paul Brown back in the 60's. So there's that......

Art Modell also fired future 5x NFL and 6x AFC champion coach, Bill Belichick. So there's that too..

 

[convertedpatsfan]

IIRC I've heard Bengals fans say that Lewis's "security" isn't based so much on the owner's faith as his cheapness.

I'm pretty sure they're correct Then again, what do Bengals fans know about winning football?

Mike Brown does have a reputation for being cheap. Then again, so does every owner when their team stinks and they know it and don't want to shell out for a quick fix. Jeremy Jacobs had many similar articles in the past, which went away after the Bruins started winning again.

Then again, Brown is also the son of legendary HOF Coach Paul Brown. Maybe he's more patient. Or maybe he's more cheap. Either way, waiting out a bad season or two has worked.

That would be the opposite of Pete Carroll, who had to deal with Bobby Grier in New England and when he went to Seattle demanded GM privileges, got them, and has been very successful.

This was a terrible move. None of Chip's moves as a GM were bad with the possible exception of the Murray deal, as a cheaper guy like Mathews makes more sense in that system. Eagles fans may disagree because he was a fan favorite, but offloading McCoy for Alonso was a masterstroke and has turned out very well.

You need time to build a team to work in a system. One can't help but think that if he traded his whole draft to get Mariota he would not have been fired, even if it would have been a dumb move objectively.

You're right, Carroll wasn't the best example to use there. I was quick to lump them together because of their college success and first failures in the NFL, but in terms of personnel and final say, you're right about Grier. Although I don't think Petey has final say in Seattle like you think. This article seems to distinguish that Schneider gets final say over the 90, Carroll gets final say over which of those 90 make the 53.

Seahawks’ John Schneider, Pete Carroll have perfected buddy system

So Schneider buys the groceries, Carroll decides what's on the menu.

I think the trade for Bradford was very polarizing and obviously hasn't worked out the way he had hoped. We can debate the merits of a cheap QB you know has hit a ceiling vs. potential at a higher cost. I understand the merits of it.

But that Byron Maxwell deal is not defensible in any light. And I don't think that McCoy deal was so fantastic. Yes, his $10M cap hit this year was high. And they were able to structure Murray and Matthews so the cap hit was only $7M this year, but over 3 years (McCoy's original contract), it ends up being $25M vs. $33M, with a significantly larger portion guaranteed to Murray and Matthews.

They did get 2 years of minimum salary LB play from Alonso, who has 34 tackles in 10 games this season, compared to 159 in 16 games as a rookie. So I don't think that's been a major positive for them either.

But I definitely agree on that last point. You do need time. Maybe if he hadn't made the playoffs right away, expectations would have been low. A few 8-8 seasons and a losing season and people have patience. Win the division in year 1, win 10 games the next and narrowly miss the playoffs, and people think you're a championship contender when really, they weren't a very good team all along. Kelly needed time to implement his system, and I think he would have eventually gotten there if Lurie would let it happen.

 

[OhExaulted1]

Jeffrey Lurie: Firing Chip Kelly a “decision that had to be made”

"Trajectory" before Kelly's arrival:

10-6
8-8
4-12

Kelly Arrives and takes 4-12 team to

10-6
10-6
6-9 (incomplete season)

10-6 (Wins Div., loses WC at home)
8-8 (2nd in Div., 1 game out, misses playoffs)
4-12 (****show)

10-6 (Wins Div., loses WC at home)
10-6 (2nd in Div., 2 games out, misses playoffs)
6-9 (****show)

Trajectory looks very similar.

 

[Bill Lee]

The video linked in Lurie: Decision to fire Kelly based on trajectory of team - NFL.com answers a lot of the questions here.

The most revealing thing is Laurie saying at around 0:45 "I knew already what I wanted to do and I though having the six extra days was important". Clearly he knows who he wants as the next HC and wants to be first in line.

All in all he comes across pretty well, even though most of us think he's a flakey owner.

He did set back that franchise a few years, it's gonna take some good 3 years to fix that mess, he screwed up the roster, locker room, salary cap, and created a scenario where whomever replaces him will be under pressure from day 1. Great job.

He screwed the pooch so bad it can hardly walk. The new HC/GM has a real mess to deal with.

One can't help but think that if he traded his whole draft to get Mariota he would not have been fired, even if it would have been a dumb move objectively.

I agree he probably wouldn't be fired if he drafted Mariota, but then again Chip doesn't seem to do objectivity well. He went on his own wacky buying spree and the groceries made a terrible meal so he got fired.

A look at the Eagles' 2015 draft picks doesn't show that his draft picks helped him all that much.

 

[primetime]

But I definitely agree on that last point. You do need time. Maybe if he hadn't made the playoffs right away, expectations would have been low. A few 8-8 seasons and a losing season and people have patience. Win the division in year 1, win 10 games the next and narrowly miss the playoffs, and people think you're a championship contender when really, they weren't a very good team all along. Kelly needed time to implement his system, and I think he would have eventually gotten there if Lurie would let it happen.

Keep in mind he only had GM control this offseason, too. If you look at the first Belichick year as a GM, in 2000, and putting Brady aside, because you don't know Brady is Brady yet, his acquisitions included Adrian Klemm and JR Redmond as the top draft picks, Antonio Langham, Chris Calloway, Grant Williams, Eric Bjornson, Rob Holmberg, and Sale Isaia.

They also included Otis Smith, Joe Andruzzi, and Bobby Hamilton. Those guys worked out, and were important parts of championship teams, but not everyone was a home run. He needed time to see that roster shake out, and Brady of course played a huge role in that.

The best thing you can say about all of those guys is that they were cheap. None of them were even close to a big acquisition like a Murray, Maxwell, or the McCoy trade, though I really don't have a problem with the latter. The Bradford deal seems poor enough in retrospect but less because of the QB swap and more because of the 2nd round pick thrown in as a needless sweetener. I think Chip's big issue was he splashed on all of these big names and none of them worked out, which isn't something you can have happen when you're under scrutiny and you don't have a solid QB to cushion the blow (that one of the acquisitions that didn't work out was a QB is a double-whammy). In fact, his best acquisition was probably Mathews, who came cheap. Even so, Sproles, who's been around forever, outplayed all of them.

Bad teams don't give coaches enough time to let their plans shake out, so they have constant rotation of coaching staffs and personnel. Owners, of course, want to see results right away, but that can't always be expected. Especially since you're often beholden to a quarterback, and the fate of a quarterback and a coach are so closely linked, and there's some good evidence that sitting a rookie at that position for a year or two is preferable to throwing him to the wolves. But there's just not the patience to let that happen, so unless you have a starting-caliber QB already like a Kitna or Favre or Manning, you're not going to get to season a Palmer or Rodgers or Osweiler.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The video linked in Lurie: Decision to fire Kelly based on trajectory of team - NFL.com answers a lot of the questions here.

The most revealing thing is Laurie saying at around 0:45 "I knew already what I wanted to do and I though having the six extra days was important". Clearly he knows who he wants as the next HC and wants to be first in line.

All in all he comes across pretty well, even though most of us think he's a flakey owner.

He screwed the pooch so bad it can hardly walk. The new HC/GM has a real mess to deal with.

I agree he probably wouldn't be fired if he drafted Mariota, but then again Chip doesn't seem to do objectivity well. He went on his own wacky buying spree and the groceries made a terrible meal so he got fired.

A look at the Eagles' 2015 draft picks doesn't show that his draft picks helped him all that much.

Chip made some mistakes but the Eagles 2016 cap outlook is not that bad.

Early Look at Eagles' Salary Cap Situation

Philadelphia Eagles 2015 Salary Cap

 

[OhExaulted1]

Keep in mind he only had GM control this offseason, too. If you look at the first Belichick year as a GM, in 2000, and putting Brady aside, because you don't know Brady is Brady yet, his acquisitions included Adrian Klemm and JR Redmond as the top draft picks, Antonio Langham, Chris Calloway, Grant Williams, Eric Bjornson, Rob Holmberg, and Sale Isaia.

They also included Otis Smith, Joe Andruzzi, and Bobby Hamilton. Those guys worked out, and were important parts of championship teams, but not everyone was a home run. He needed time to see that roster shake out, and Brady of course played a huge role in that.

Some great names on that 2000 squad. All-time really:
Antico Dalton
Shockmain Davis (My all-time favorite!)
John Friesz
Sale Isaia
Olrick Johnson
Tebucky Jones
Grey Ruegamer
Kato Serwanga
Maugaula Tuitele

I could go on and on.....

 

[BobDigital]

People say Chip the GM hurt Chip the coach.

I don't think that is 100% true. I think he made some very good moves (getting that Bills LB was a great move IMO). However what he really needs is a good defensive coach and a QB.

Not his fault he couldn't find a good QB. That ain't easy.

 

[RobertWeathers]

People say Chip the GM hurt Chip the coach.

I don't think that is 100% true. I think he made some very good moves (getting that Bills LB was a great move IMO). However what he really needs is a good defensive coach and a QB.

Not his fault he couldn't find a good QB. That ain't easy.

With that said Bradford had his best year under Chip.

They overrated Maxwell and didn't use Murray right.

Getting rid of McCoy and Jackson were also very curious moves.

You can see both sides of it.

You can also say that the Iggles are in better shape now than at the end of 2012.

 

[Bartmac36]

i wonder if thats real haha

 

[primetime]

I still think dumping McCoy was a great move. He would have cost nearly $12m against the cap, and they got back a player who had been phenomenal his rookie year and still had two years left on a minimum rookie contract. Alonso didn't play very well this year, but he's still young and has talent. Perhaps they dumped McCoy a year too early rather than a year too late, but he's been thoroughly mediocre and injury prone in Buffalo, so I'm not sure that's the case. Regardless, he's on the downside of his career.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Yeah that's tough, I can understand them doing it but I'd probably give him one more year. Feel like a lot of teams aren't patient enough. Guys have gotten a longer leash doing less. That Sam Bradford trade what the ****....Jeff Fisher should be arrested for that grand theft auto.

This is the type of flawed logic that drives so many NFL teams to suck.

What exactly did Fisher "steal"? He has the worst QB in the league that he benched. My guess is it hasn't quite dawned that an NFL team is squat without a QB.

Here is reality......Kelly started with a crappy team full of me first losers that he took to two ten win seasons.

He didn't "drain" talent. He discarded me first types that no team will win with.

Anybody who thinks anyone is going to win with "stars" like Desean Jackson, Shady McCoy is completely nuts. Foles sucks too. How's Mathis working out?

At least by discarding them you have a chance at some point. Keeping loser type superstars is never going to win anything.

The same flawed logic is what had the mediot world in a tizzy over JMD and his dumping of Cutler.

 

[farn]

As soon as the owner used words such as "emotional intelligence" I knew they were screwed.

2015/2016 : feelings count so so much. Hey Lurie : just get a winner. Screw emotional intelligence. That is just baby speak for "I can't take being treated like an adult". Stupid. Maybe Kelly isn't the answer - but finding some touchy feely coach isn't going to help either.

BB listens. To men. To adults. Treats them as such. He doesn't need to coddle the players. And they love him for it. Even those he shipped elsewhere (eventually).

 

[Bill Lee]

Chip made some mistakes but the Eagles 2016 cap outlook is not that bad.

Yes, as the article points out, it looks good because it doesn't have a QB on it (other than Mark Sanchez...). And he traded away the 2nd rounder so the new guy's going to have to fill that void somehow.

Keeping loser type superstars is never going to win anything.

Sure, but then he goes out and signs DeMarco Murray for lots of money, who proceeds to have a crap year AND stabs him in the back too.

 

[jah]

As soon as the owner used words such as "emotional intelligence" I knew they were screwed.

2015/2016 : feelings count so so much. Hey Lurie : just get a winner. Screw emotional intelligence. That is just baby speak for "I can't take being treated like an adult". Stupid. Maybe Kelly isn't the answer - but finding some touchy feely coach isn't going to help either.

BB listens. To men. To adults. Treats them as such. He doesn't need to coddle the players. And they love him for it. Even those he shipped elsewhere (eventually).

BB has emotional intelligence and Chip does not. Has nothing to do with the "PC agenda" or whatever. You say players should be treated like men--that's true. Chip treated them like numbers.

 

[farn]

BB has emotional intelligence and Chip does not. Has nothing to do with the "PC agenda" or whatever. You say players should be treated like men--that's true. Chip treated them like numbers.

All true, what you state here. I just think Lurie USING those exact words is lame and weak. Say what you mean : I need someone who works with young athletes and gets their attention. The nomenclature is the wussy part - not the need for someone who relates. It's just lame.