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ESPN's Quarterback Ratings are a joke


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This is nothing new. They've always been a joke.
 
I can't even bring myself to be outraged about this. It is so preposterous you would have to be seriously stupid or only a very casual fan to take it seriously.
 
The team PPG and W-L record tells you most of what you need to know about elite QB's.

Throwing a ball away rather than taking a sack or throwing into the wrong coverage can hurt stats but contribute to a team win. Taking chances to come back late in a game can lead to a win hurt stats. There are areas where Rogers stats belie weaknesses in his game.

The ESPN QBR is a weak measurement tool, The traditional QB rating is somewhat better but still very limited.
 
It's always a beautiful thing when truth shines through the bullsh.t like that.

Its so blatant its absurd.

Even the knuckleheads at PFF had Brady #1 last week. While its true that PFF's analytics and algorithms in which it bases its ratings on are severely flawed, at least its determined by actual data (which is also flawed) and not some network with an agenda.
 
Its so blatant its absurd.

.

And therein lies the beauty of it.....



ESPN's hatred of Brady and the Patriots is so far over the top that it's hilarious. I stopped watching that network a long time ago and will only watch it if I have no other choice. Thankfully they didn't get the NHL contract so I don't have to tune them in for that, and most good soccer matches are on Fox Sports Network.
 
Drew Brees had six TDs and no INTs while completing 78% of his passes this weekend and had a QBR rating of 91.7. Manning had no TDs and 1 INT while completing 72.4% of his passes and had a QBR of 93.6.
 
Flacco had a higher QBR than Brady in the playoff game as did Wilson in the SB lol. Isn't that rating suppose to be heavy on fourth quarter stats?
 
Flacco had a higher QBR than Brady in the playoff game as did Wilson in the SB lol. Isn't that rating suppose to be heavy on fourth quarter stats?

And "clutchness". ESPN's rapidly approaching irrelevance cannot come too soon.
 
A lot of the reason QBR was created is cause of how imperfect the old passer rating was.

While passer rating is hardly perfect it is a hell of a lot better than QBR and one of the best stats overall to measure a QB by in the long term when compared within era.

If you were to go by something other than Passer Rating that is in the same ball park I'd pick "Real QB rating" on CHFF cause it is easy to understand and while imperfect as well is reasonably fair.
 
There is nothing that points to the ESPN QBR being statistically based. There is no correlation with performance statistics.
Given the results, it is far more likely that the numbers are the results of a group of ESPN managers selecting numbers. Statistically it is very hard to argue otherwise.
 
The mere fact that espn won't disclose exactly how their QBR numbers are calculated shows that there's most likely a lot of objectivity involved in the calculations

I would guess that most of this objectivity involves how much espn likes or doesn't like the quarterback or his franchise
 
There is nothing that points to the ESPN QBR being statistically based. There is no correlation with performance statistics.
Given the results, it is far more likely that the numbers are the results of a group of ESPN managers selecting numbers. Statistically it is very hard to argue otherwise.
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Reading the tea leaves from ESPN's statements, I think the huge, utterly fatal flaw is the focus on "clutch" plays.

The way they figure it, a key conversion on 4th & long when you're trailing late in the game counts vastly more than the same pass on 2nd down when you're up by 3 scores. Throwing a couple of interceptions isn't too bad, as long as they come in the first half. Etc. Which means that their formula disses a dominant performance in a wire-to-wire victory. Which means that it disses 2015 Tom Brady. No "agenda" required, just a major conceptual fail.

As another poster mentioned, CHFF's Real Quarterback Rating seems pretty solid. For this season it shows Brady well out front, followed by a tight clump of Dalton, Palmer and Rogers, then another group of Carr, Rivers, Eli and Brees.
Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: The Truth Hurts
 
A lot of the reason QBR was created is cause of how imperfect the old passer rating was.

While passer rating is hardly perfect it is a hell of a lot better than QBR and one of the best stats overall to measure a QB by in the long term when compared within era.

If you were to go by something other than Passer Rating that is in the same ball park I'd pick "Real QB rating" on CHFF cause it is easy to understand and while imperfect as well is reasonably fair.

Is there somewhere where the formula is published? It looks good to the eye test and I agree with the inclusions of the stats added to the traditional QB rating, but I'd like to see the formula.

There's always the urge to improve the traditional QB rating as it leaves out important things. Incompletions hurt your rating but sacks don't affect it at all, for instance. The CHFF Real QB rating seems to address some of that, as they say "Real Quarterback Rating includes rushing attempts, rushing yards, rushing TDs, fumbles and sacks to produce a new kind of rating that measures a quarterback’s overall performance with the ball, not just as a passer when he actually releases the ball (which is all that passer rating currently measures)."

But as I can't find the rating, I can't tell if their "Advances" category which simply lists "completions + rush attempts" includes completions and rush attempts for no gain. Should that be an "advance"?

Here's my proposal on how we might tweak the passer rating.

1. Completion % becomes Positive Play %
The percentage of QB dropbacks and rushing attempts that results in the gain of at least one yard. Mesaures the basic competence of a QB to execute the bare minimum of offense.

2. Yards/Attempt to include Rushing attempts and sacks.
Pretty much same as the CHFF rating, as far as I can tell. Measures the ability of the QB to gain large amounts of yardage consistently. It of course credits the QB for the receiver's YAC, but unless you can track what % of receivers' yardage comes after first contact, we aren't going to be able to accurately assess it. If Brady throws a screen to Lewis at the LOS and he goes 5 yards untouched before being tackled at 10 yards, you might convince me that Brady only "deserves" 5 yards but you won't convince me that Brady doesn't deserve any yards. Watching Brady after Bledsoe we know that accurate short passing is an actual difference-making skill that you ignore at your peril.

3. TD % becomes TD + First Down %
TDs are wonderful, the goal of any offense, but gaining first downs is a skill that's ignored by traditional passer rating. The previous category rewards gaining yards in large chunks. This category rewards consistently moving the chains and then cashing in at the end. If you want to weight TD passes more than getting a first down, I won't argue, but if a QB converts six first downs in the air before handing off to a back for a 1 yard score, shouldn't the QB get some bonus for that?

4. INT% becomes INT + Fumble %
Also pretty much same as the CHFF rating, as far as I can tell. Again I need to see the formula. If there's a way to include dropped interceptions and Fumbles recovered by the offense, I'd do that as well as there is no QB skill to having a defense drop a sure INT or fail to recover a fumble.

PLUS: Garbage time cutoff. The recent discussion on garbage time scoring and the prevent defense makes me think that the same idea should be applied to QB rating. If we could disallow any stat accrued when the win probability is above 99% for one team, that would eliminate garbage time stat padding.

I think that would improve even the CHFF rating. Still, traditional passer rating is usually fine most of the time. Certainly better than any scheme that tries to apply subjective weights and judgement to stats like QBR and CHFF. Football Outsider's DVOA ratings, as far as I understand it, are entirely stat based and pass the eye test much better than QBR though I couldn't explain it fully. I think it just asks how a QB did vs. every other QB in the same situation, no matter how it happened.
 
ESPN is entertainment, nothing more. It's futile to be concerned with its lack of journalism or integrity. ESPN is nothing more than Keeping Up With The Kardashians with a football being tossed around in the background instead of Kim putting make up on with a high pressure sprayer. They are WWE wrestling without the Avalanche move creating that big mat slamming sound. When ESPN isn't broadcasting a sporting event or putting on a show that speaks specifically about the stats/workings of the game, ESPN is in business to make you feel the same things you feel when you go into a haunted house at Disneyworld, or get a bird's eye glimpse of the accident scene, or get that unintended glimpse of titillating behavior that goes on behind closed doors.

Most fans just don't seem to realize how powerful the NFL is. A thumbs down from Goodell/the NFL would be a major blow to ESPN. You think ESPN isn't going to think loooong and hard about going negative on the NFL? That they won't carry the water of whatever theme the NFL wants to push (polishing Goodell's apple)? Consider:
(A) What is important to ESPN entertainment? Journalism or revenue/stock price/their jobs?
(B) Disney's news division is a single digit percent of Disney corp's dollar value.
(C) ESPN is 60% of the dollar value of the Disney corp.
(D) ESPN's most important gross revenue is subscriber fees from Satellite and Cable packages that carry ESPN.
(E) Cable and Satellite providers bundle ESPN into most all of its packages with the #1 reason (not the only though) being the NFL.
(F) Without the NFL, which is the biggest draw BY FAR on TV including the highly prized and elusive young demo, cable/satellite is apt to pull back on carrying ESPN on all packages.
(G) the subscriber fee stream gets jeopardized when it is easier for non sports fans to not have to subscribe to ESPN.
(H) Currently a majority of non sports fan that never watch ESPN but have a cable/satellite package that includes ESPN pays 6 dollars a month to ESPN.
(J) The NFL can absolutely look elsewhere for a network to carry a game
(K) The NFL network carries an NFL game but the NFL network doesn't get into enough homes.
(L) The NFL sold the rights to simulcast that NFL network broadcast game to CBS.
(M) CBS not only paid huge money for that, CBS moved its single most popular TV show for the right demo, the Big Bang Theory, to accommodate the simulcast (fyi, the viewership of Big Bang dwarfs virtually everything ESPN broadcasts except NFL).
(N) This clearly spells a threat to ESPN's future for carrying an NFL game. They'll either lose it or pay even more absurdly high $$$ to carry it.​

Disney losing the NFL is likely to result in losing billions in stock value and plummeting gross revenue at it's most valuable division, ESPN (along with lots of layoffs). That's not a sports fan's hot air, that is fact. And it means a man like Roger Goodell carries immense power. So do you think Disney's ESPN division and Disney's news division will avoid stories that jeopardize the NFL - Disney relationship if possible??. They don't care one iota if Brady is being railroaded. They have concerns that make that kind of story irrelevant. And that is case with, though not quite as acute as Disney, of Universal, Comcast, TimeWarner, FOX corp, Universal-NBC and a whole bunch of others who below the surface have a massive reach into all corners.

Just is what it is....only cutting the cord can really strike at the heart of ESPN-Goodell.

Excellent post.

I had no idea that BSPN was 60% of Disney's revenue. I had assumed it was much less.
 
ESPN must have made up their own Ideal Gas Law as well. That's why Mort thinks his tweet was accurate. :eek:
 
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