Some insight into Pats' Linebacker needs

[DaBruinz]

You mean hope to get lucky for the first time ever?

I don't see TBC or Chatham in the lineup.

I buy a lottery ticket occasionally and have had the same success.

By the way, they haven't drafted many linebackers on day 2 either, compared with other positions.

Parcells LB drafts seem very successful to me. They've provided a good deal of BB's Linebacker snaps.

If Parcells had the same philosophy, who would have played linebacker in our Super Bowl years?

The Pats have drafted several day 2 LBs since BB took over. TJ Turner, Casey Tisdale, TBC, Ryan Claridge, Jeremy Mincey, Oscar Lua, and Justin Rogers. Only TBC had a modicum of success.

And I do agree that BB needs to do better at drafting and developing LBs internally so they don't have to rely SOLELY on UFAs.

 

[psychoPat]

Excellent thread !

PatrioticFervor's observations seem to cut to the heart.
If that analysis is on target - as it believe it to be - then
look for Adalius to appear mostly on the inside.

That is where the need is ... and that is where AD's multi-faceted talent can shine most brightly.

 

[zippo59]

I'm sorry but AD is not going to play mostly ILB. He might appear there occasionally but he is at is best when he can play the elephant OLB/DE hybrid. It would be like asking Willie McGinest to play ILB. It just wouldn't make any sense.

 

[CoachK]

I'm sorry but AD is not going to play mostly ILB. He might appear there occasionally but he is at is best when he can play the elephant OLB/DE hybrid. It would be like asking Willie McGinest to play ILB. It just wouldn't make any sense.

How do we know he wouldn't be better inside? It's not like he was going to get a lot of time there with Lewis, but here.......

 

[RayClay]

Has anyone thought of the scenario when Bruschi retires?

Seau will be gone too, I'm sure

Where do we get 2 ILBs?

We didn't go all out for A.D. to stick him inside either. A pass rusher who can cover cornerbacks and we make him an inside linebacker taking on OLinemen?

I don't think so.

 

[RayClay]

One of the distinguishing hallmarks of the BB-era defenses is the remarkable way in which they handle injuries, even when numbers approach catastrophic levels. The secret herein lies in the fact that this team is much more wont to take players who are good, very good, but not necessarily great, and coach them to the system. The system is everything. When a player goes down, his replacement will play to the same approximate level as his predecessor. There is no real drop-off in level of play, with the consequence being the defense's chemistry remains intact.

.

If our backup linebackers could do that, I wouldn't have posted in this thread.

See AFC Championship game vs. Colts and San Diego game preceding.

We had one injury in mid-season and couldn't cover.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

If our backup linebackers could do that, I wouldn't have posted in this thread.

See AFC Championship game vs. Colts and San Diego game preceding.

We had one injury in mid-season and couldn't cover.

Yeah...and who was the player who went down?

 

[RayClay]

Yeah...and who was the player who went down?

Seau probably the least costly to replace.

What if Bruschi or Vrabel went down?

 

[cstjohn17]

Has anyone thought of the scenario when Bruschi retires?

Seau will be gone too, I'm sure

Where do we get 2 ILBs?

We didn't go all out for A.D. to stick him inside either. A pass rusher who can cover cornerbacks and we make him an inside linebacker taking on OLinemen?

I don't think so.

Don't even think about the draft... especially a Day 1 LB.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Nice to see folks writing Alexander off after one game, not to mention many of the same people writing Mays off as a bust. For grins and giggles, here is a nice article on Mays that I dug up while reviewing his background, after reading up on Lua following the draft, you start to see the kind of kid BB/SP bring in to battle for those reserve slots, and hopefully develop as their future ILBs: http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/...der/Corey.Mays.Finally.His.Turn-1110282.shtml

 

[mgteich]

For 2007, we are in great shape. We have a Bruschi, Vrabel and Seau inside and Colvin and Thomas outside. And yes, Vrabel can take outside reps as needed. How many reps do you expect for the #6 and #7 linebackers?

The number 8 and number 9 (and perhaps even number 10) will get almost zero reps, except on Special Teams. Behind the top 5, there is plenty of youth (all youth?). The question is talent, not age.

For the record, there will a lot of competition for the few backup LB reps, and certainly for Special team reps. I expect to see Chad Brown, or another veteran OLB signed soon. He may not get many reps. He is insurance!

I think that this a STRONG linebacker corps!

OLB: Colvin, Thomas, Brown, Woods
ILB: Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Alexander
ST: Izzo, Woods
PS: Lua, Mays

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

I'm sorry but AD is not going to play mostly ILB. He might appear there occasionally but he is at is best when he can play the elephant OLB/DE hybrid. It would be like asking Willie McGinest to play ILB. It just wouldn't make any sense.

That's true, but two points need to be made.

First, the 3 - 4 as New England plays it has been shown to be a particularly flexible instrument.

Second, Coach likes to disguise his defenses a lot. Not that we are without talent, but smoke and mirrors always helps things along.

Even the most talented, power-laden offenses have trouble with this defense.

It's not really a question of where Thomas lines up, it's a question of where he ends up.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Seau probably the least costly to replace.

What if Bruschi or Vrabel went down?

Those are valid observations, but it's not really a matter of cost.

I think your point buttresses my earlier point.

Seau was a great addition to the defense last year, but who in a back-up role could match what he had to offer? Seau is a bona fide Hall of Famer, and while at 37 he's not what he was at 27 (hey, who is?), it can still be argued he retains the aura of a "superstar". There was no one to fill that void when he went down because there's no one else like him on the team.

Although Bruschi had a tough time of it at times last year, I fully expect him to bounce back.

We lose Bruschi, we lose Vrabel, we lose lots. The thing is, on most all teams (including this one), the gap between first tier linebackers and second tier linebackers is enormous. I get the impression, tho, that BB is trying to find a way around that conundrum. It's obviously a work in progress, and he's not there yet. But give him a little time.

Which, coincidentally, is a good argument for showing he has no intention of quitting after this season. He's obviously working on the team concept of the future in professional football, and he's not done yet.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

For 2007, we are in great shape. We have a Bruschi, Vrabel and Seau inside and Colvin and Thomas outside. And yes, Vrabel can take outside reps as needed. How many reps do you expect for the #6 and #7 linebackers?

The number 8 and number 9 (and perhaps even number 10) will get almost zero reps, except on Special Teams. Behind the top 5, there is plenty of youth (all youth?). The question is talent, not age.

For the record, there will a lot of competition for the few backup LB reps, and certainly for Special team reps. I expect to see Chad Brown, or another veteran OLB signed soon. He may not get many reps. He is insurance!

I think that this a STRONG linebacker corps!

OLB: Colvin, Thomas, Brown, Woods
ILB: Bruschi, Vrabel, Seau, Alexander
ST: Izzo, Woods
PS: Lua, Mays

I agree. You've made a good argument with that.

I'd be very surprised, however, if the team did make a move to sign Chad Brown. Quite apart from his disastrous stint here earlier, he's shown abundant signs of being the quintessential "aging linebacker", capable of giving you the occasional serviceable, or even good, game. But it's painfully obvious his best years are well behind him.

I do think, however, they will sign another vet linebacker, perhaps before training camp, but much more likely during. And it could be someone good, as BB has already uttered the option of moving some of next year's draft picks. (This is in addition to the talent the team now possesses.) Just look over existing NFL rosters, and measure what's needed against what you have, then let your imagination run wild a little bit.

It is, after all, going to be a long off season.

 

[RayClay]

Those are valid observations, but it's not really a matter of cost.

I think your point buttresses my earlier point.

Seau was a great addition to the defense last year, but who in a back-up role could match what he had to offer? Seau is a bona fide Hall of Famer, and while at 37 he's not what he was at 27 (hey, who is?), it can still be argued he retains the aura of a "superstar". There was no one to fill that void when he went down because there's no one else like him on the team.

Although Bruschi had a tough time of it at times last year, I fully expect him to bounce back.

We lose Bruschi, we lose Vrabel, we lose lots. The thing is, on most all teams (including this one), the gap between first tier linebackers and second tier linebackers is enormous. I get the impression, tho, that BB is trying to find a way around that conundrum. It's obviously a work in progress, and he's not there yet. But give him a little time.

Which, coincidentally, is a good argument for showing he has no intention of quitting after this season. He's obviously working on the team concept of the future in professional football, and he's not done yet.

Not as enormous as on this one. With Bruschi and McGinest in their prime, we had Vrable Colvin Phifer and Ted Johnson plus Chatham. Earlier we had Cox.

There were injuries, but they were hardly noticeable due to depth.

Colvin might be better, (or not, has he lost a step due to injury?)

McGinest is gone, Johnson is gone.

Bruschi is past his prime, admit it. Vrable might be too. Check the interviews after the Colts game. Vrable has a bad back and that can linger.

We've added one player under age 37.

I don't dwell on the negative, but when posters are always making a rosy scenario spin, the opposite possibilities must be addressed.

 

[RayClay]

I agree. You've made a good argument with that.

I'd be very surprised, however, if the team did make a move to sign Chad Brown. Quite apart from his disastrous stint here earlier, he's shown abundant signs of being the quintessential "aging linebacker", capable of giving you the occasional serviceable, or even good, game. But it's painfully obvious his best years are well behind him.

I do think, however, they will sign another vet linebacker, perhaps before training camp, but much more likely during. And it could be someone good, as BB has already uttered the option of moving some of next year's draft picks. (This is in addition to the talent the team now possesses.) Just look over existing NFL rosters, and measure what's needed against what you have, then let your imagination run wild a little bit.

It is, after all, going to be a long off season.

As opposed to our "ageless linebackers"!

Sorry, I couldn't help it. Just a joke.

 

[RayClay]

Nice to see folks writing Alexander off after one game, not to mention many of the same people writing Mays off as a bust. For grins and giggles, here is a nice article on Mays that I dug up while reviewing his background, after reading up on Lua following the draft, you start to see the kind of kid BB/SP bring in to battle for those reserve slots, and hopefully develop as their future ILBs: http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/...der/Corey.Mays.Finally.His.Turn-1110282.shtml

No different from people anointing TBC the next McGinest after a couple starts.

Troy Brown still feels he has to prove himself. That's how he made it as an eighth round pick.

Face it, being an UDFA means almost 250 times teams saw you on the board and said not good enough.

The draft isn't everything, but to go from undrafted to the NFL you need to prove it every day, every year.

 

[RayClay]

maybe the plan is for bb to aquire the few remaining parcells drafted lbs in a few years when our guys are done....seriously though bb as aquired three good lbs in vrabel colvin and thomas and he has signed other quality players too phifer seau and some others. I think we will be fine at LBer spot and i will feel that way until something makes me feel different. The LB position is and will be for the next few years the heart of our de...

That's funny. He could just pick up the Parcell's picks and have a young LB corps until retirement.

Then we will never know what he would have done without Parcells drafted linebackers. I like it!

 

[RayClay]

Nice to see folks writing Alexander off after one game, not to mention many of the same people writing Mays off as a bust. For grins and giggles, here is a nice article on Mays that I dug up while reviewing his background, after reading up on Lua following the draft, you start to see the kind of kid BB/SP bring in to battle for those reserve slots, and hopefully develop as their future ILBs: http://media.www.ndsmcobserver.com/...der/Corey.Mays.Finally.His.Turn-1110282.shtml

By the way Box you can't, by definition, be a bust if you are an UDFA.

A bust means not living up to expectations. There are no expectations for an UDFA, since all thirty two teams had at least 7 cracks at the players.

Any time an UDFA succeeds it qualifies as above expectations.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Not as enormous as on this one. With Bruschi and McGinest in their prime, we had Vrable Colvin Phifer and Ted Johnson plus Chatham. Earlier we had Cox.

There were injuries, but they were hardly noticeable due to depth.

Colvin might be better, (or not, has he lost a step due to injury?)

McGinest is gone, Johnson is gone.

Bruschi is past his prime, admit it. Vrable might be too. Check the interviews after the Colts game. Vrable has a bad back and that can linger.

We've added one player under age 37.

I don't dwell on the negative, but when posters are always making a rosy scenario spin, the opposite possibilities must be addressed.

No they are valid points and questions that, yes, should be addressed. It's just that, since earliest days, I've never been a fan of "the sky is falling".

(I'm not saying you argue this - I'm not - but some on this board surely seem into it.)

Depth, of course, is a most valuable asset, and we need that. It's important at every position, not just linebacker.

But the point of my earlier posts was that BB, at least in my estimation, seems to be trying to mold that corps into one where he can it do as successfully as he's done with defensive backs, where in the past we've had such a catastrophic number of injuries that would have put lesser teams down for the count, but have enabled us to compete at the very highest levels of professional football, almost as if noting had happened. That, by any estimation, has been most remarkable.

We don't, at present, have a bad linebacking corps. As I've said, I agree with MG's post. It's also why I've stated in other posts why I think they'll sign another vet.

Just like you can never be too rich, or too thin, or have enough golf balls, on this team you can never have enough good linebackers.