NFL vs. Brady Federal Court Hearing (8/19) LIVE UPDATES AND TWEETS

[DaBruinz]

I think too many owners really DO like the power that Goodell has and want him to keep it. The owners are not our friends here.

That said, I can see them pressuring Goodell to run and live to fight another day. These court hearings are giving the NFL* a huge black eye.

I'm going to disagree with you that the owners like the power that Goodell has. Why? Because a GOOD Commissioner is supposed to be like a good Offensive lineman. If he's doing his job, you don't notice him. And Goodell is being noticed far too much for abuse of said power.

This is the 3rd MAJOR Player disciplinary issue for Goodell in the last year and 4th time in 3 years. All deal with his impropriety in handling player discipline. Goodell showed a huge amount of ineptness with the Ray Rice Case. With the Peterson case, the court found he had over-stepped and also file contempt charges against him.

Each loss to the NFLPA gives them a stronger bargaining position going forward and could even lead to the players demanding a change to Article 46 to prevent the Commissioner from being the arbitrator going forward. And it would be a demand the owners would have to seriously consider being how they've been trounced recently.

These cases do more than give the NFL a black eye. They are what actually damage the integrity of the NFL. The integrity that the owners are paying Goodell 44M a year to uphold.. A job he's failing miserably at..

 

[DaBruinz]

Because all the talking heads keeps saying that case is final law. I was trying ,with my long post that nobody read, to point out WHY it was not applicable.

I knew it wasn't applicable and nothing in MY post insinuated as much..

 

[juny]

Cautiously optimistic about this outcome. Although it feels like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. Every time good news pops up, the NFL usually makes something up to turn the tide.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Loved this part. Great point:


This is also very important:

"Who else but Mr. Pash had the opportunity to edit the Wells report before it became public?" Berman asked. "Anybody?"

Nash returned to the CBA, which he says allows Goodell, as arbitrator, to make these calls.

"Under the law the arbitrator doesn't have the authority to determine evidence will be cumulative. They can not just conclude that. I would ask you, who else but Mr. Pash could have given testimony about his edits or how extensive they were? Who else could have possibly given the testimony of Mr. Pash? … What I am saying is it's not sufficient to just conclude his testimony would be cumulative."

I would love to see Judge Berman ask for the unedited copy of the Wells Report before Pash edited it, to see what he changed.......

 

[Anteros]

Goodell is going to have to worry about somebody running up behind him and clubbing him like a baby seal the rest of his pathetic lying life.



Advantage Brady....

I would volunteer to do that... and enjoy it immensely.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

He doesn't even need two grounds, he just needs one.

Two grounds strengthens the case for Brady. Even if a superior court overturns one of the grounds but not the other, the decision stands...Both grounds would have to be overturned by a higher court for it to not stand...

 

[lamafist]

Nash is so stupid.. The court DID defer to him. However, there IS a standard that must be followed as an arbitrator and the court is showing that Goodell didn't follow that standard..

Nash isn't stupid, he's stupidity's lawyer. Goodell's findings of fact are overtly biased, and all his arguments involving the CBA are tenuous post-hoc rationalizations for his pre-determined punishment. They're literally indefensible, as Nash learned at last Wednesday's hearing, where every time he engaged Berman's questioning and tried to defend Goodell's reasoning, he ended up makingH the NFLPA's point for them.

He's better off repeating the same point about deference, no matter how stupid he sounds, because the only possible outcome when he goes into the details is giving the NFLPA more ammo.

 

[Tuck]

Sounds like 8/31 is Judgement Day

It sure does.

 

[lamafist]

The Judge's ruling can prevent it by saying that a truly impartial arbitrator must hear the case. The judge can, in fact, appoint someone to be said arbitrator. As such, all the CBA rules would then have to be followed. Such as discovery. Furthermore, people like Pash, Kensil, Gardi, etc, wouldn't be protected. Neither would Wells' notes..

I'm not sure that Berman can actually appoint an arbitrator, only stipulate that he/she be mutually agreed upon by the league and NFLPA. And that's just if Berman vacates the penalty based on Goodell's evident partiality, or because the punishment is "arbitrary and capricious."

If he vacates based on the lack of notice issues, or the absence of "generally aware" as a standard for punishment in the CBA, these are "incurable" by the NFL, as they would equally apply to any further arbitration. In that case, the NFL's only recourse would be to appeal Berman's finding.

 

[Tuck]

I would love to see Judge Berman ask for the unedited copy of the Wells Report before Pash edited it, to see what he changed.......

Doubt they would hand it over. By claiming attorney client privilege with Wells they showed they would rather lose than reveal the motivations behind all this.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

I'm not sure that Berman can actually appoint an arbitrator, only stipulate that he/she be mutually agreed upon by the league and NFLPA.

The way it's typically done is the Judge asks the parties to try and agree on an arbitrator. If they can't, they each pick one and the two arbitrators they've picked get together and agree on a neutral third party to serve as the arbitrator.

 

[smurfalarm]

The way it's typically done is the Judge asks the parties to try and agree on an arbitrator. If they can't, they each pick one and the two arbitrators they've picked get together and agree on a neutral third party to serve as the arbitrator.

And what happens when Goodell picks Goodell as the NFL's arbitrator and refuses to agree to anyone other than Goodell as the neutral third party to serve as the arbitrator?

 

[BradyFTW!]

And what happens when Goodell picks Goodell as the NFL's arbitrator and refuses to agree to anyone other than Goodell as the neutral third party to serve as the arbitrator?

Then he most likely gets held in contempt of court, would be my guess.

 

[n6249c]

I'm surprised this has apparently escaped mention..,

... NFLPA attorney Jeffrey Kessler spoke first. He mentioned precedence of a case overturned by Berman "within the last four months" in which Berman ruled that the arbitrator "can not dispense his own brand of industrial justice." Kessler also said that at least 18 arbitration decisions have been set aside in the Southern District of New York.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/berman-continues-encourage-nfl-nflpa-settle

 

[GrogansArmy]

I'm surprised this has apparently escaped mention..,

Trying not to get my hopes up too high, but I think the NFLPA struck gold when the NFL tried to beat them to court and Judge Berman was assigned the case. Going forward my guess is that the NFLPA tries to get all cases in the future heard by Berman.

Berman hasn't decided yet of course and NFLPA could lose, but the fact that Berman put everything out in the public has to feel like a huge blow to the NFL and a great relief to the NFLPA.

 

[VectorPrime]

I really doubt the NLFPA will be able to get another case in front of Berman, he seems really pissed off that the NFL brought this one in front of him. He's pissed that his time is being wasted. Thankfully its working out amazingly for Brady but this seems like a one time shot.

 

[A man named Brady]

I still won't get my hopes up

 

[patfanken]

Doubt they would hand it over. By claiming attorney client privilege with Wells they showed they would rather lose than reveal the motivations behind all this.

That's a very interesting thought.

I think any kind of legal action that requires discovery process is TERRIFYING to the League office. I never put it together why the client privilege would be so important to the NFL cover up. But it also proves the point why it's so critically important that the end game ISN'T vacating Brady's suspension. (which IS going to happen)

If it ends there, the entire NFL smear campaign of malicious leaks, lies, and misinformation will never be fully exposed. The entire conspiracy of jealous owners, league officials and Goodell will get away with the malicious prosecution of the crime that didn't happen in the first place.

From where I see it, even if Berman fully vacates Goodell's suspension, the Pats win will only be in the short run. Goodell can STILL claim he hurt the Pats competitively by taking the draft picks. He has already hurt the Pats' brand with all the misinformation and lies over the last several months, and in private moments he can laugh with is cronies about all the money he cost Brady in endorsements. All that AND he can continue to use the power of being a "league source" to continue propagating the myth that Brady and the Pats were still guilty of "something", and that it was only using technicalities that got them off in Federal Court

So in the end he will "bravely" decry the Court's ruling but "respectfully" accept their ruling. He will publicly stand by the Welles report AND his punishment of Brady. He will repeat HIS reasons for the penalty and emphasize that he was only zealously protecting the integrity of the game. HIS narrative will out shout the true narrative of those who dare to point out the truth, just like he's done for the last 6 months.

In other words, if it ends right here, Goodell experiences an immediate set back, but one he can recover from. HOWEVER, if Wizard of Lies' curtain is fully pulled back, he won't recover. That's why Brady or the Pats need to take that next step of a defamation suit.

C'mon, be honest, doesn't it excite you, even a little bit to picture the look on Roger Goodell's face the day a court officer come down to his Park Ave office to serve him a subpoena for HIS cell phone. Well that NEEDS to happen along with Pash's, Kensil's, Irsay's, Giardi's, Welles', etc, along with all the email communications it takes to truly expose how corrupt and self serving the NFL league offices has become under Roger Goodell's leadership.

This wouldn't just be for the good of Brady's reputation, or the Pats brand, or even our mental health. By going the next step it would be good for the rest of the league who desperately need to get out from under the tyranny, corruption, and incompetence of Roger Goodell's rule.

I rest my case.

 

[Joker]

I hit "like" but I LOVE YOU MAN...

 

[SVN]

Nash isn't stupid, he's stupidity's lawyer. Goodell's findings of fact are overtly biased, and all his arguments involving the CBA are tenuous post-hoc rationalizations for his pre-determined punishment. They're literally indefensible, as Nash learned at last Wednesday's hearing, where every time he engaged Berman's questioning and tried to defend Goodell's reasoning, he ended up makingH the NFLPA's point for them.

He's better off repeating the same point about deference, no matter how stupid he sounds, because the only possible outcome when he goes into the details is giving the NFLPA more ammo.

If you read the transcript from the 12 th hearing he doesnt sound as bad as it looked like last week since all info was limited to tweets and short sentences
http://www.scribd.com/doc/275211980/NFL-v-Brady-Berman-August-12th-hearing

However hard to gather the tone from the transcript.