Jamie Collins is a Pro-Bowler

[manxman2601]

Hightower is being forced to not be used in the best role for him because Mayo is out.
We would likely be playing as much 335 nickel as 425 nickel now if Mayo were healthy.

Agreed. BB would be putting his best players out there (we'd be seeing less Ayers I suspect).

 

[Rob0729]

So Mayo is damaged goods and is going to get cut just like Wilfork was?

Belichick loves Mayo and thinks when healthy he is one of the best LBs in the league. That said, his injury is hard to come back from and he will be likely be asked to restructure his deal. So there is a chance he is let go. My guess is he will be forced to take a pay cut and make up the money in future incentives.

 

[RI Patriots fan]

Linebackers: Chris Borland, SF (+6.6) and Jamie Collins, NE (+5.5)

"Not content with his impressive performance a week ago, Borland felt the need to go out and improve on it again this week. A tackling machine, he graded positively both against the run and in coverage. Collins wasn’t too far off the pace either, finishing the game against the Colts with six defensive stops and some nice work in coverage."


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/11/17/all-star-team-of-the-week-week-11/2/

 

[Ring 6]

In the 3-3-5, wonder if BB would use Jamie Collins off the edge at times? Not to replace Ninko. But, to give him a blow. Didn't Ninko have a game or two early where his snaps were really down? The more players you can rotate the better. Keeps em fresh.

Week 1 was the only time the entire front 7 was healthy.
In that game in sub Nink came out, and the 3 LBs stayed in.
That seemed to be the plan.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed. BB would be putting his best players out there (we'd be seeing less Ayers I suspect).

Ayers is more the Chandler Jones replacement

 

[manxman2601]

Ayers is more the Chandler Jones replacement

Right, but in a 3-3 where everyone is fit and one assumes the best players are out there I suspect you'd see something like:


Nink/Chandler Jones - Wilfork-Easley
Hightower-Mayo-Collins

With maybe subbing Wilfork off for whichever of Nink or Chandler isn't already out there on more obvious passing downs.

At least that's how I'd set them up to run a 3-3.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Cutting Mayo to save less than 4 million is a bad idea because you will not get a player of Mayo's caliber for 4 million.

The bigger question is do you need someone of Mayo's caliber chewing up $10m in cap space when you are in a sub-defense 67% of the time and Collins and DT have been outstanding.

No question Mayo makes the base D- 3-4 or 4-3 better. He also gives you flexibility to line up DT and Collins anywhere you wish.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, but in a 3-3 where everyone is fit and one assumes the best players are out there I suspect you'd see something like:


Nink/Chandler Jones - Wilfork-Easley
Hightower-Mayo-Collins

With maybe subbing Wilfork off for whichever of Nink or Chandler isn't already out there on more obvious passing downs.

At least that's how I'd set them up to run a 3-3.

Well, I think you would see a lot of rotation.
The 3 Lbs would remain the same.

One first down, you may have
Easley-Wilfork-Chandler J
or even Branch-Wilfork-Chandler J

One 3rd and long you would see
Nink-Easley-Chandler J

 

[Ring 6]

The bigger question is do you need someone of Mayo's caliber chewing up $10m in cap space when you are in a sub-defense 67% of the time and Collins and DT have been outstanding.

No question Mayo makes the base D- 3-4 or 4-3 better. He also gives you flexibility to line up DT and Collins anywhere you wish.

Well, if the cap savings is 4 mill then its a 4mill decision, not a 10 mill one,
and frankly I would gladly pay that to have a nickle that includes:

HT, Chandler Jones, Mayo, JC91, Ninkovich, Revis, Browner, McCourty and whoever you want to use as the other 3.

 

[manxman2601]

Well, I think you would see a lot of rotation.
The 3 Lbs would remain the same.

One first down, you may have
Easley-Wilfork-Chandler J
or even Branch-Wilfork-Chandler J

One 3rd and long you would see
Nink-Easley-Chandler J

That's exactly how I see it, predominantly with Hightower doing some blitzing off the edge too (although he can drop allowing Collins/Mayo to blitz up the middle).

I do actually like what we've been seeing of late though with two big stout but athletic interior linemen (mainly Wilfork-Easley but with Branch as part of the rotation) and two athletic attacking MLB's and two edge guys. But I think with the way the front six have been playing, either works.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Well, if the cap savings is 4 mill then its a 4mill decision, not a 10 mill one,

I look at is as w/ Mayo, $10m in cap space is used. Without Mayo, they receive approx $4.3m back. I'm willing to bet that they want him back - but under a different deal structure. Losing $6m in space to cut a player is tough to swallow.

and frankly I would gladly pay that to have a nickle that includes: HT, Chandler Jones, Mayo, JC91, Ninkovich, Revis, Browner, McCourty and whoever you want to use as the other 3.

Agree.

 

[Ring 6]

I look at is as w/ Mayo, $10m in cap space is used. Without Mayo, they receive approx $4.3m back. I'm willing to bet that they want him back - but under a different deal structure. Losing $6m in space to cut a player is tough to swallow.


Agree.

But you are looking at it wrong.
6 mill is gone.
Having Mayo costs and additional 4 mill
Not having Mayo costs and additional 0

Thats just the way it works.

 

[RobertWeathers]

But you are looking at it wrong.
6 mill is gone.
Having Mayo costs and additional 4 mill
Not having Mayo costs and additional 0

Thats just the way it works.

I'm confused...

How can the $6m be gone if the hit doesn't take place until 2015? Why would re-doing the deal before the 2015 season prevent the $6m hit?

 

[Ring 6]

I'm confused...

How can the $6m be gone if the hit doesn't take place until 2015? Why would re-doing the deal before the 2015 season prevent the $6m hit?

6 mill is buried money that hits the cap whether he stays or is cut.
4 mill is the new money.

By gone, I mean it hits the 2015 cap no matter what you do, so has nothing to do with the decision.

 

[Ring 6]

That's exactly how I see it, predominantly with Hightower doing some blitzing off the edge too (although he can drop allowing Collins/Mayo to blitz up the middle).

I do actually like what we've been seeing of late though with two big stout but athletic interior linemen (mainly Wilfork-Easley but with Branch as part of the rotation) and two athletic attacking MLB's and two edge guys. But I think with the way the front six have been playing, either works.

Except I don't think Easley played in the 4 man fronts. It was Branch and Jones next to VW.

 

[manxman2601]

Except I don't think Easley played in the 4 man fronts. It was Branch and Jones next to VW.

That's interesting. I'll have to rewatch that tomorrow and see what happened.

 

[RobertWeathers]

6 mill is buried money that hits the cap whether he stays or is cut.
4 mill is the new money.

By gone, I mean it hits the 2015 cap no matter what you do, so has nothing to do with the decision.

I'm with ya. $6m is charged to the team no matter what.

I think where I am coming from is best articulated in the attached..

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2013...ion-amortization-cap-hits-dead-money-and-more

...and what Mayo stands to receive in 2015 and beyond...

http://www.patscap.com/mayo.html#mayo

In short, I don't see the Pats paying out $6.6m for him in 2015, nor the $7+m in 2016. As you say, the cap charge based on the signing bonus is sunk cost. They may convert some of his remaining $ into a signing bonus and have Mayo's cap figure lower for future years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Except I don't think Easley played in the 4 man fronts. It was Branch and Jones next to VW.

According to Reiss, Easley did move to end on 4 man fronts. I thought that I saw him at end on a couple of occasions...

DEFENSIVE TACKLE
Vince Wilfork -- 33 of 58
Dominique Easley -- 32 of 58
Chris Jones -- 29 of 58
Alan Branch -- 15 of 58

Quick-hit thoughts: With the 58 snaps just three shy of a season low (55, vs. Cincinnati), there wasn't a lot of wear and tear on the big guys up front. The versatility of Easley was tapped when the Patriots played a 4-3 base and he moved to end.

 

[rochrist]

Bruschi on Collins in his chat today:

...as for Jamie Collins, the sky is the limit for him. I see a little Roman Phifer in him, I see a little Mike Vrabel in him, and then I see things that neither of those players could do athletically. I don't know how much bigger of a compliment I could give him. Those are two of the best LBs in Patriots history.

 

[Oswlek]

Bruschi on Collins in his chat today:

...as for Jamie Collins, the sky is the limit for him. I see a little Roman Phifer in him, I see a little Mike Vrabel in him, and then I see things that neither of those players could do athletically. I don't know how much bigger of a compliment I could give him. Those are two of the best LBs in Patriots history.

High praise.