Jay Glazer: Rex Ryan told his team "word on the street" is he is getting fired

[PP2]

No one is 'pinning' anything on him but his responsibilities. Yuo seem to have made up a point of view to argue against.

I have no idea what you are saying here. Your grammar makes no sense.

How did it hurt them?
They were better that year, and they didn't have a QB on the roster to develop. They were no worse the next year for having played him.
They did not rebuild until this year, so thats a ludicrous statement.

They were not better that year and they knew it so they pulled the trigger the next year and fired Mangini, cut Favre, signed Ryan and drafted Sanchez. They rebuilt in 2009, not "this year" as you think.

Not really. The definition of a word is pretty much a fact. Ignoring the definition could be an opinion though.
We aren't talking about being satisfied with being a little better than average.
We are talking about being competitive vs being a dysfunctional joke of a franchsie.
Answer me this:
Add up the teams that were better than the Jets from 1997-today and then the ones that were worse.
Which list is bigger?
Remember this eminated from you saying the organization was so bad you couldn't expect him to win.
If yuo are honest you will admit comeptitive is a substantially better description than dysfunctional joke of a franchsie.
I can find you 20 teams that would be happier with that than what they had.

Yes it is your opinion. You are using pure statistics to demonstrate that you think the Jets have been consistently "competitive" over the last 15 or so years, but I think you will have a hard time finding a Jets fan that would agree with you, or a Jets fan that's been happy with their franchise for the last decade or so, except for maybe 2010.

Just seems like the smart thing to do.

You are the one who keeps saying it's time to move on. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[Ring 6]

I have no idea what you are saying here. Your grammar makes no sense.

My grammar s fine
No one is pinning anything on his other than the responsiblities of his job, which makes your argument a strawman.
You are inventing an argument and pretending some one made it. You are not arguing against any actual argument that anyone has made, but one you are substituting as if it is theirs.

They were not better that year and they knew it so they pulled the trigger the next year and fired Mangini, cut Favre, signed Ryan and drafted Sanchez. They rebuilt in 2009, not "this year" as you think.

You think they would have been a better team in 2008 without Bret Favre. Yeah OK.
The Kellen Clemens era got blown off course.

Yes it is your opinion. You are using pure statistics to demonstrate that you think the Jets have been consistently "competitive" over the last 15 or so years, but I think you will have a hard time finding a Jets fan that would agree with you, or a Jets fan that's been happy with their franchise for the last decade or so, except for maybe 2010.

No its actually the definition of competitive.
Being better than 2/3s of the teams in the league means you were competitive.
Your opinion of what Jets fans are happy with, ignoring that 20+ other teams were worse has nothing to do with them being competitve.

But just to clarify you think for the last 15 years, they had no chance to compete for anything? Funny they beat us many times over those years and won 7 playoff games.

You are the one who keeps saying it's time to move on. Nobody is stopping you.

Well, you keep responding and repeating the same incorrect points, so my fault I can't stop looking.

 

[PP2]

My grammar s fine
No one is pinning anything on his other than the responsiblities of his job, which makes your argument a strawman.
You are inventing an argument and pretending some one made it. You are not arguing against any actual argument that anyone has made, but one you are substituting as if it is theirs.

I understand this even less.

You think they would have been a better team in 2008 without Bret Favre. Yeah OK.
The Kellen Clemens era got blown off course.

They clearly thought the Favre experiment was a failure because they rebooted the next season.

No its actually the definition of competitive.
Being better than 2/3s of the teams in the league means you were competitive.
Your opinion of what Jets fans are happy with, ignoring that 20+ other teams were worse has nothing to do with them being competitve.

You are saying that the Jets are competitive as compared to 20 other teams. That is your opinion. If you tell the jets fans that they should be happy because their team is more competitive than 20 other teams in the league, I really doubt that they would agree with you. They would probably only be happy if the Jets consistently had a winning record and were winning the AFC east more often than not. That to me is the definition of being competitive and yes that is my opinion, and not a fact.

This is like the argument that 5 million kids are starving in Africa so you should shut the **** up and be happy, which of course doesn't make you happy.

Well, you keep responding and repeating the same incorrect points, so my fault I can't stop looking.

Your decision.

 

[Deus Irae]

...They clearly thought the Favre experiment was a failure because they rebooted the next season...

I don't really want to jump into this because I've got Andy on ignore and it makes following it difficult but, in case it's important to the discussion, both the Jets owner and GM said that they wanted Favre back, and Favre said that the team called him to coach him out of retirement prior to the draft and that he turned them down.

 

[PP2]

I don't really want to jump into this because I've got Andy on ignore and it makes following it difficult but, in case it's important to the discussion, both the Jets owner and GM said that they wanted Favre back, and Favre said that the team called him to coach him out of retirement prior to the draft and that he turned them down.

If that is the case, then I am wrong.

The discussion was whether the acquisition of Favre made the Jets franchise any better, and my argument was that in the very short term, it may have but most certainly not the long term. It only postponed the inevitable rebuilding, and as fate has it, if they had not gotten Favre, they very probably would not have hired Ryan or drafted Sanchez..

 

[Deus Irae]

If that is the case, then I am wrong.

The discussion was whether the acquisition of Favre made the Jets franchise any better, and my argument was that in the very short term, it may have but most certainly not the long term. It only postponed the inevitable rebuilding, and as fate has it, if they had not gotten Favre, they very probably would not have hired Ryan or drafted Sanchez..

I see. Well, I don't think an incompetent owner and a less than outstanding GM wanting Favre back necessarily proves or disproves your point about a rebuild, and it's quite possible that the team changed strategy after Favre's initial delays and still called on him at the last minute, hoping he'd bridge a gap.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt. I just saw that one comment and remembered the split on Jets boards about whether they wanted him back.

 

[Ring 6]

I understand this even less.

I guess you just dont want to.
Just do this then.
Show me who made the statement you appear to be arguing against that Ryan is responsible for every thing about the Jets.
As far as i can see it only appeared when you started arguing that whoever said it is wrong.

They clearly thought the Favre experiment was a failure because they rebooted the next season.

Favre chose not to return.

You are saying that the Jets are competitive as compared to 20 other teams. That is your opinion. If you tell the jets fans that they should be happy because their team is more competitive than 20 other teams in the league, I really doubt that they would agree with you. They would probably only be happy if the Jets consistently had a winning record and were winning the AFC east more often than not. That to me is the definition of being competitive and yes that is my opinion, and not a fact.

Being competitive and your fans being content are two entirely different things.
Competitive actually has a definition.
They do consistently have a winning record, btw.

This is like the argument that 5 million kids are starving in Africa so you should shut the **** up and be happy, which of course doesn't make you happy.

So there are what, 3 competitive teams in the NFL?

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think Woody takes a run at O'Brien in spite of the hostage fee of 11 million (?).

 

[TruthSeeker]

For all his bluster Rex is an excellent coach.

I assume you mean "head coach". So you think excellent includes

- not paying any attention to the offense
- not developing offensive players
- creating an atmosphere of bluster (which is bound to bite you later)
- playing up a few regular season games to the limit (thereby diminishing the importance of other games)
- collecting star players who are more about self than the team

amongst other things.

:bricks: :bricks: :bricks:

The only thing Rex has overachieved on is the number of team wins this year - and that's because people focus almost exclusively on a team's offense when predicting records and the Jets have such a bad offense (and a very good to excellent defense).

 

[Deus Irae]

I assume you mean "head coach". So you think excellent includes

- not paying any attention to the offense
- not developing offensive players
- creating an atmosphere of bluster (which is bound to bite you later)
- playing up a few regular season games to the limit (thereby diminishing the importance of other games)
- collecting star players who are more about self than the team

amongst other things.

:bricks: :bricks: :bricks:

The only thing Rex has overachieved on is the number of team wins this year - and that's because people focus almost exclusively on a team's offense when predicting records and the Jets have such a bad offense (and a very good to excellent defense).

The "Overachieved this year" meme has a huge flaw in it. Take away the two gifted wins (Tampa/NE) and they're 5-10 right now. It's sort of like when they thought going 9-7 and getting to the AFCCG was a sign of a long-term improvement, when it was mostly about 2 teams in a row resting players and not caring about games followed by a run of luck in the playoffs.

 

[PP2]

I guess you just dont want to.
Just do this then.
Show me who made the statement you appear to be arguing against that Ryan is responsible for every thing about the Jets.
As far as i can see it only appeared when you started arguing that whoever said it is wrong.

It seems the more you talk, the less I understand. What we seem to be getting sidetracked on is whether or not Ryan can be held responsible for the state of the Jets franchise. I disagree with that. He may not be successful as the HC. I am not disagreeing with that, but as far as him being responsible for the entire franchise, that is presuming a little too much for me.

Being competitive and your fans being content are two entirely different things.
Competitive actually has a definition.

Not really. When you are competitive, your fans are happy. Yes, there is a definition for the word "competition" but "being competitive" is entirely a matter of opinion, not fact.

They do consistently have a winning record, btw.

No, they don't. That's completely ridiculous. Their last 10 seasons:

6-10
8-8
11-5
9-7
9-7
4-12
10-6
4-12
10-6
6-10

That's up and down and up and down. Far from being competitive.

So there are what, 3 competitive teams in the NFL?

Like I said, that's a matter of opinion. My opinion is that we are competitive, year in year out, but the Jets are not. They are only 11 games above .500 since 1997. That's not being competitive to me.

 

[Ring 6]

It seems the more you talk, the less I understand. What we seem to be getting sidetracked on is whether or not Ryan can be held responsible for the state of the Jets franchise. I disagree with that. He may not be successful as the HC. I am not disagreeing with that, but as far as him being responsible for the entire franchise, that is presuming a little too much for me.

I am beginning to think you are trolling now.
Once again:
1) WHO said he is responsible for the entire franchise?
2) You have argued that this is the point of contention, and no one has made that claim
3) Shall I respond that you are wrong because clearly Rex Ryan isn't responsible for the economy? Its pretty much the same thing.
4) I am talking about the job he has done as coach.
Please stop arguing about something you made up and assigned as my argument, which I never made.

Not really. When you are competitive, your fans are happy.

That is a silly yardstick. Are you saying if the Browns and Patriots both went 9-7 and were eliminated from the playoffs on the last weekend of the season, the Browns would be competitive and the Patriots wouldn't?

Yes, there is a definition for the word "competition" but "being competitive" is entirely a matter of opinion, not fact.

No, there is a definition for competitive as well.
Here it is.

com·pet·i·tive adjective \kəm-ˈpe-tə-tiv\
: of or relating to a situation in which people or groups are trying to win a contest or be more successful than others : relating to or involving competition

: having a strong desire to win or be the best at something

: as good as or better than others of the same kind : able to compete successfully with others
Being somewhere from 8th to 11th most successful out of 32 teams is an ironclad fit of the definition.

Note there is nothing about opinion or happiness, contentment or enjoyment.

No, they don't. That's completely ridiculous. Their last 10 seasons:

6-10
8-8
11-5
9-7
9-7
4-12
10-6
4-12
10-6
6-10

We are talking about 1997 forward, and I already detailed their record.
They win more than the average team.

That's up and down and up and down. Far from being competitive.

I think you don't understand what competitive is.
Competitive means compete well with your peers, not dominate and be the best.

Like I said, that's a matter of opinion. My opinion is that we are competitive, year in year out, but the Jets are not. They are only 11 games above .500 since 1997. That's not being competitive to me.

I am just going to end with this.
You just described competitive. Winning more than you lose, is competing favorably with your competitors.
I think you know all of this and are just playing dumb, so I am going to give up on this discussion.

 

[PP2]

I am beginning to think you are trolling now.
Once again:
1) WHO said he is responsible for the entire franchise?
2) You have argued that this is the point of contention, and no one has made that claim
3) Shall I respond that you are wrong because clearly Rex Ryan isn't responsible for the economy? Its pretty much the same thing.
4) I am talking about the job he has done as coach.
Please stop arguing about something you made up and assigned as my argument, which I never made.

I understand that he did an awful job as HC, but not everything is his fault.

That is a silly yardstick. Are you saying if the Browns and Patriots both went 9-7 and were eliminated from the playoffs on the last weekend of the season, the Browns would be competitive and the Patriots wouldn't?

If the Browns and patriots went 9-7 and missed the playoffs, neither fan bases would be happy. Even you said you were not happy when the Pats missed the playoffs in '09.

No, there is a definition for competitive as well.
Here it is.
com·pet·i·tive adjective \kəm-ˈpe-tə-tiv\
: of or relating to a situation in which people or groups are trying to win a contest or be more successful than others : relating to or involving competition

: having a strong desire to win or be the best at something

: as good as or better than others of the same kind : able to compete successfully with others
Being somewhere from 8th to 11th most successful out of 32 teams is an ironclad fit of the definition.

Note there is nothing about opinion or happiness, contentment or enjoyment.

Being able to successful compete with others? Being just 11 games above .500 for over a decade is barely staying afloat never mind being competitive.

We are talking about 1997 forward, and I already detailed their record.
They win more than the average team.
I think you don't understand what competitive is.
Competitive means compete well with your peers, not dominate and be the best.

No, we are talking about you saying that the Jets were consistent winners, which has been demonstrated to be clearly false.

You made this statement:

They do consistently have a winning record, btw.

And I just clearly prove you were wrong. You refuse to acknowledge that. Now who is the strawman?

I am just going to end with this.
You just described competitive. Winning more than you lose, is competing favorably with your competitors.
I think you know all of this and are just playing dumb, so I am going to give up on this discussion.

"Winning more than you lose" is not being competitive, it is barely staying afloat, otherwise by your definition, a team that is 101-100 should be proud of itself. That's ridiculous.

 

[IcyPatriot]

A pissing contest over Rex Ryan :confused4:

You guys must be bored or something ...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Rex goes from "Let's get a goddamn snack!" in 3 years to "Let's go and help me pack!"

 

[Betterthanmost]

PP2 and Andy:
Outsider looking in, it appears you both have a subjective view of what being competitive implies and it is ok imo.
If your peers are the median or even the mean, then you can be considered competitive if you are .500. However, if the goal is to win or be better than those you are competing with, then the Jets cannot be considered competitive.
So PP2 is right in saying that we all have our opinions on what being competitive is. Andy, you are also not wrong in saying the Jets are competitive, perhaps, you deem competition as it should be as a normal curve and provided you are in 1 standard deviation of the mean, you are competitive.

 

[Triumph]

I think Woody takes a run at O'Brien in spite of the hostage fee of 11 million (?).

I think Obrien will interview, but only to up the ante for a job be really wants.

The Jets are a mess. Houston has more talent, is out of the AFCE, has a better draft slot and no NY media to deal with.

 

[Uncle Rico]

PP2 and Andy:
Outsider looking in, it appears you both have a subjective view of what being competitive implies and it is ok imo.
If your peers are the median or even the mean, then you can be considered competitive if you are .500. However, if the goal is to win or be better than those you are competing with, then the Jets cannot be considered competitive.
So PP2 is right in saying that we all have our opinions on what being competitive is. Andy, you are also not wrong in saying the Jets are competitive, perhaps, you deem competition as it should be as a normal curve and provided you are in 1 standard deviation of the mean, you are competitive.

Nominated:

 

[PP2]

A pissing contest over Rex Ryan :confused4:

You guys must be bored or something ...

I am just amusing myself with the notion that I might even, someday, win a debate with Andy.

 

[Ring 6]

I am just amusing myself with the notion that I might even, someday, win a debate with Andy.

Someday you might.
But seriously, there is no winning or losing. Thats why these conversations end up like this, people post as if they are competing.