NEW RULE is lame

[Deus Irae]

it only makes it illegal on FGs, for now.

That doesn't change the point at all, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

 

[PATRlOT]

Funny how a game as physical as football, has a rule where you can't even push your OWN teammate into position. I get the main idea of the rule, but to think that could have some sort of impact on a missed 56 YARD FG in overtime is just ridiculously absurd.

 

[Observer]

What it says, and how it is supposed to be interpreted, are frequently not the same thing, as we all know from rules about holding, illegal contact, PI, etc... I expect that the NFL will come out with a statement about this, in some form, and that statement will lay out how the rule is going to be interpreted going forward.

Personally, I think that calling that a penalty the way they did is a really bad idea, because it all but eliminates stunting.

I totally agree with you. The rule is horrible and I don't get why this is only a safety issue during kicking. Seems almost designed to enable sketchy calls.

 

[SB39]

That doesn't change the point at all, so I'm not sure why you keep bringing it up.

You said "I think that calling that a penalty the way they did is a really bad idea, because it all but eliminates stunting."

Telling you that this rule only exists on FG's and XP's is totally a valid response to your concern because this rule does absolutely nothing to change or eliminate stunting on ~95% of plays.

 

[upstater1]

How many tuck rule penalties do you remember?

I remember several. We wouldn't even have played the Raiders that year were it not for a loss to the Jets because of the tuck rule. More common than you think.

 

[SB39]

I totally agree with you. The rule is horrible and I don't get why this is only a safety issue during kicking. Seems almost designed to enable sketchy calls.

The opinion is that the linemen - especially the center - are in an extremely vulnerable position when blocking for FG's. They are low to the ground, heads down, and susceptible to a potential neck injury. Even on punts, the center is afforded some special protections.

 

[upstater1]

Here is why the call was bogus: it was a line stunt. Jones looped around to his right to hit the A-gap and had incidental contact with his line mate. It was not an attempt to push his teammate into the offensive formation. The call NEVER should have been made.

This is what Jones is saying. I'm not sure I believe him him BUT, hypothetically, what if a guy tries a stunt and gets into the back of his teammate? Is that a penalty? If so, can't do line stunts anymore.

 

[crew1954]

page 58 of the following pdf (~5 MB)

https://www.nfl.info/download/2012MediaGuides/2013%20NFL%20Rule%20Book.pdf

Team B players cannot push teammates on the line of scrimmage into the offensive formation.

BBs interpretation that the pusher has to come from the second level of the defense is incorrect.

Whether Jones was actually pushing the guy in front of him is a different thing entirely. I'd need to see a replay to determine if the pushing was incidental or intentional.

If this is correct, and BB misunderstood the rule, then the league did it's usual ****ass job of explaining it to the coaches.

And another ****ass job in not clueing the announcers in on this at the beginning of the season. I had not heard any mention of this new 'rule' or emphasize on it.

No preseason mention of it, no demonstration by St Tony and Rodney or anyone on some pregame/halftime show, nada.

Just midway throught the season, on a potential game winning play, in overtime,after its called, they role out the ref's mouthpiece, AKA Mike Perrierra to "explain".

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

p

BBs interpretation that the pusher has to come from the second level of the defense is incorrect.

one has to presume that when the refs come to training camp to explain all new rules and points of emphasis, they describe in practical terms what it is they are looking to eliminate.

Apparently a ref gave him bad info in camp with the "second level" explanation.

 

[upstater1]

That's a good enough explanation for me. So like I've been saying all along.... the refs did not decide the outcome of this game. The Patriots inept play and inept coaching, combined with a penalty a player committed at a key moment, did.

Can't see how you came to this conclusion.

The Patriots played poorly.

Then they were in OT lined up as a Jet PK tried to kick a 56 yard FG. He missed.

Then the ref changed the outcome of the game.

It's bizarre for you to say it didn't happen.

 

[Tunescribe]

Why would you even try to stunt when the LOS is completely full with defensive players? If you watch the play you can see that he just moves moves back and to the side and tries to push directly in the other rushers back. It looks like he tries to push the rusher forward. Not like a stunt gone wrong.

The same reason you stunt at any time in a game. It looked to me like he pulled to the right in a quick loop to hit the hole that hopefully was made for him. I'll have to watch it yet again, but that's what it looked like to me.

 

[upstater1]

one has to presume that when the refs come to training camp to explain all new rules and points of emphasis, they describe in practical terms what it is they are looking to eliminate.

Apparently a ref gave him bad info in camp with the "second level" explanation.

But apparently, the refs were just made aware this week about the new emphasis. if they knew about it during training camp, they wouldn't have had to be reminded of it this week.

 

[manxman2601]

So how many of us will be watching line play on FGs more closely from now on (particularly our missed ones)

 

[SB39]

Can't see how you came to this conclusion.

The Patriots played poorly.

Then they were in OT lined up as a Jet PK tried to kick a 56 yard FG. He missed.

Then the ref changed the outcome of the game.

It's bizarre for you to say it didn't happen.

If the ref made the right call, (which certainly is still up for debate for some but if we accept for the sake of argument that he made the right call) then he did not decide the outcome of the game. Chris Jones decided the outcome of the game by committing a personal foul. All the ref did was correctly throw the flag.

I've never been one to believe refs should keep their flags in their pockets during key moments of a game. If something is a penalty, then it's a penalty whether it is the 1st quarter, 3rd quarter or overtime.

 

[upstater1]

If he made the right call, (which certainly is still up for debate for some but if we accept for the sake of argument that he made the right call) then he did not decide the outcome of the game. Chris Jones decided the outcome of the game by committing a personal foul. All the ref did was correctly throw the flag.

The ref could have called a dozen penalties there if he wanted. But he didn't. Look at the Pereira link again. Watch #94 of the Jets give our defender a chokehold much worse than Solder gave Galette last week.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Games aren't lost on single plays or a single call by a Referee. We lost this game in so many other places in every Quarter.

 

[SB39]

The ref could have called a dozen penalties there if he wanted. But he didn't. Look at the Pereira link again. Watch #94 of the Jets give our defender a chokehold much worse than Solder gave Galette last week.

Sorry, I'm not a Saints or Raiders fan. I'm not going to whine incessantly about officiating.

There are few thing more pathetic than when the fan of a losing team whines about the number of times they were held.

 

[flasox27]

Can't see how you came to this conclusion.

The Patriots played poorly.

Then they were in OT lined up as a Jet PK tried to kick a 56 yard FG. He missed.

Then the ref changed the outcome of the game.

It's bizarre for you to say it didn't happen.

Absolutely correct. Whether or not the Pats or Jets played good enough to win in regulation is irrelevant. The fact is that the Jets missed a field goal and the Pats would have had the ball at the spot of the hold which was their 46 yard line. Somehowl the ref's decide to enforce a rule which had not been called once this year at this particular time. If you think this just a coincidence, there is a bridge joining two boroughs in the city the Jets allegedly represent, that the ref's will be happy to sell you.

 

[upstater1]

Sorry, I'm not a Saints or Raiders fan. I'm not going to whine incessantly about officiating.

There are few thing more pathetic than when the fan of a losing team whines about the number of times they were held.

I never asked you to whine and really could care less whether or not you do.

I was saying your statement about the ref is dead wrong.

 

[Deus Irae]

Games aren't lost on single plays or a single call by a Referee. We lost this game in so many other places in every Quarter.

This game was lost because an official called a penalty on a play where the kicker missed a FG, and the opposing team was able to capitalize.


You can say that the Patriot played badly, had some bonehead plays, or whatever else you choose. However, the Patriots didn't lose this game anywhere else. They lost it on one penalty call.