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Tonight @9pm on PBS Frontline: A League of Denial.


I'm sure they could implement such a device in football pretty easily. It's little more than a tether running through a brace similar to a football neck roll attached to your helmet on each side (I'm sure there's a lot more science behind it). Unfortunately I suspect the problem with football is that you're absorbing the impacts directly opposed to indirectly, so attaching your head to your torso wouldn't achieve a great deal to limit head/neck trauma.

Yeah, unfortunately, there's pretty much nothing you can do to stop the micro-concussions an NFL player's brain suffers on every sudden hit, whether it involves the head or not, and it's the accumulated result of all these little traumas that is the likely cause of CTE.

Any solution to the issue is going to have to be medical as opposed to mechanical, and the possibility of finding one isn't as much of a stretch of the imagination as it might feel like.

The days, players come back in one off-season from orthopedic injuries that would have ended their careers 20 years ago. Now we've finally started to recognize the necessity, hopefully we're not too far from finding the James Andrews of conccussions.

Of course, for its part, the NFL really should get serious and start contributing more $$$ than a mid-level quarterback's signing bonus.
 
It could be that Goodell has seen the writing on the wall, thus moving the game closer to flag football.

Goodell, as a mouthpiece of the owners, moves the game in whichever direction achieves greater profit. Most of the rules focused on "player safety" have in reality been a cynical way to drive up scoring and theoretically "excitement" from the Madden crowd. 18 game seasons, Thursday night games - he's hardly been a player-safety friendly commissioner.
 
been a cynical way to drive up scoring and theoretically "excitement" from the Madden and fantasy crowd.

Fixed that for you :).
 
Yeah, unfortunately, there's pretty much nothing you can do to stop the micro-concussions an NFL player's brain suffers on every sudden hit, whether it involves the head or not, and it's the accumulated result of all these little traumas that is the likely cause of CTE.

Any solution to the issue is going to have to be medical as opposed to mechanical, and the possibility of finding one isn't as much of a stretch of the imagination as it might feel like.

The days, players come back in one off-season from orthopedic injuries that would have ended their careers 20 years ago. Now we've finally started to recognize the necessity, hopefully we're not too far from finding the James Andrews of conccussions.

Of course, for its part, the NFL really should get serious and start contributing more $$$ than a mid-level quarterback's signing bonus.

In the meantime the best 'solution' would be to slow the game back down rather than trying to continually speed it up. Pointing back to motorsports, most if not all racing series have some serious restrictions to limit speeds sometimes disbanding entire series/classes.
 
Here's where football will die hardest: college. Way before high school and pro football became popular levels of play, college football was a national institution. Now it's even more than that, in terms of the income it generates (from both gate receipts and alumni) plus what it means to "school spirit" and identity, etc., etc. Can anyone imagine the behemoth that is college football going away for ANY reason?

Also, I wonder if the problem would be as severe if players' body mass wasn't artificially overgrown. Maybe institute size limits by position? Few of the 300-pounders we see these days are that way naturally. Just look at how much size/weight players drop the minute they retire.
 
Unless I completely missed something, Florio (who has a not so well-founded opinion on just about everything) has gone radio silent on the PBS special. He did cover the ESPN withdrawal from the project a while back, but nary a mention of the program since it aired last night. Curious ...
 
Unless I completely missed something, Florio (who has a not so well-founded opinion on just about everything) has gone radio silent on the PBS special. He did cover the ESPN withdrawal from the project a while back, but nary a mention of the program since it aired last night. Curious ...

This is hardly surprising. Florio's ethics are situational, at best.
 
This is hardly surprising. Florio's ethics are situational, at best.


yeah, I can't stand guys with situational ethics...that's why I have NONE...ooops..:eek:
 
Here's where football will die hardest: college. Way before high school and pro football became popular levels of play, college football was a national institution. Now it's even more than that, in terms of the income it generates (from both gate receipts and alumni) plus what it means to "school spirit" and identity, etc., etc. Can anyone imagine the behemoth that is college football going away for ANY reason?

Also, I wonder if the problem would be as severe if players' body mass wasn't artificially overgrown. Maybe institute size limits by position? Few of the 300-pounders we see these days are that way naturally. Just look at how much size/weight players drop the minute they retire.

To steal a quote from Slavoj Zizek, it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of the NCAA.
 
There's already talk of insurers intoducing policy exclusions with respect to liability arising from concussions. Once this happens, schools will take a very hard look at not only their football programs, but other sports as well.

He's dead, Jim.

It's just a matter of time.
 
Yes, all of that. But doesn't it seem, by extension, an indictment of the game in general?

Possibly, but that's still an open question and it's (1) the one that matters, and (2) the precise one the NFL is, if this documentary is true, trying to keep from being answered.

At the end of the day, it seems to me, the question is about science and it should be treated as a science question. What are the risks, are we doing enough to make them tolerable, and what can be done to make it better?

I have no interest in attending, watching, or supporting gladiator matches, no matter how much I love football. If science and modern understanding of medicine and biomechanics were to say that football and the human body are at a place where the contests are the equivalent, I'm out. If it can be made safer to make the risk manageable, I'm relieved.

Either way, if the NFL has been actively participating in keeping those questions from being answered for the sake of money, then I'm furious.
 
Unfortunately, current technology only enables posthumous diagnosis of CTE.

this is about to change

Earlier this year, UCLA researchers published a breakthrough study in The American Journal of Geriatric Psychiatry outlining a method of testing for CTE in living players.

By injecting a radioactive compound into the bloodstream of five retired NFL players, the UCLA researchers were able to identify the biomarkers of CTE in a routine positron emission tomography (PET) scan. The compound, called FDDNP, acts as a tracer by binding with the tau protein deposits associated with CTE. The radioactive chemical tracer then accumulates in the brain in various densities, which show up in clusters of different colors on the PET scan (low-density tau deposits glow blue, while high-density deposits glow red).

It’s essentially a visual map of tau protein deposits in the brain.

New Brain Disease Test Could Force NFL to Address Its Concussion Epidemic - Wired Science
 
Stonewalling is not a long-term strategy.
You'd think SOMEONE would have learned from the Big Tobacco example.

Addressing a problem truthfully is the only way to survive long-term. Stonewalling is a strategy that ruins what you are protecting in the long-term.

Personally, I wish the Patriots kicked and screamed their case in Spygate the way the Saints did in Bountygate. Putting up the walls only worsens a situation. Get the truth out. It's the only successful way.

You make it sound like the tobacco companies lost. Sorry. They won, as they sold their product for decades after the health and addictive effects were clear, telling the same lies. And they are still winning overseas. There are at least 100,000,000 people yet unborn who will have their lives diminished by those guys, simply because they are too lazy or greedy to figure out a way to make a living without hurting others.

The NFL is following The Denialists' Playbook that was created by the marketing and legal people hired by Big Tobacco. That same playbook, in most cases by the same people (operating on K Street here in my DC hometown) was then applied to agricultural chemicals, food additives, heavy metals (lead, chromium, etc.), and now climate change. Same strategy:

Phase I:
say there's nothing really to worry about, and act as if the people raising the questions are somehow out of touch or extreme. Infer that people who believe that there may be a problem are somehow unpatriotic, less manly or womanly, etc. This is usually good for one to three years.

Phase II: when the science begins to show up in the media, attack it with fake science that enables counter argument. Spend a lot more on media placements than the other side can afford. This phase can go on for up to a decade.

Phase III: when the fake science is finally exposed, attack the scientists who are behind the good science. Undermine their institutions financially. Make their families uncomfortable. Derail their career trajectories. Double down on the media buys. This phase usually starts about half way through Phase II, and can last a decade or more.

Phase IV: Admit that maybe there is something to this after all, but threaten the public with economic hardship if the health issue is addressed. Double down on the media buys.

Phase V: Give in, and offer a transition process that stretches over years and allows the existing economic interests to harvest as much as possible from their health-harming product or service.

At no point allow a conversation to begin or be legitimized about how the long term costs of the health problem are externalized onto society (taxpayers) by shifting the cost of remediation for the harm from those causing the harm to things like health care insurance premiums and hospital systems.
 
You make it sound like the tobacco companies lost. Sorry. They won, as they sold their product for decades after the health and addictive effects were clear, telling the same lies. And they are still winning overseas. There are at least 100,000,000 people yet unborn who will have their lives diminished by those guys, simply because they are too lazy or greedy to figure out a way to make a living without hurting others.

They lost in the US. They make the bulk of their money from overseas sales - - not much in the US anymore.

So your analogy only works if the NFL can derive most of its income from overseas. Selling American football overseas is not going to work as well as tobacco.
 
yeah....if I ever see something like this I'm done with football for good!!!...oh..wait a minute...

tittle-new-york-giants-bleeding-horizontal-photograph-3392203.jpg
 
The NFL is following The Denialists' Playbook that was created by the marketing and legal people hired by Big Tobacco. That same playbook, in most cases by the same people (operating on K Street here in my DC hometown) was then applied to agricultural chemicals, food additives, heavy metals (lead, chromium, etc.), and now climate change...


Why would you include the pseudo-science of "climate change" to that list?
 


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