Patriots vs Bengals Post-Game Thread

[supafly]

Combined with 2010, I blame the state of Ohio.

The positive may be that we learned a lesson from the CLE shocker last time in 2010 and played pretty well for the rest of the season. Let's see if that may happen again.

If they come out next Sunday vs NO and look much better, I will thank the entire state of Ohio, not blame them for anything.

On a much different note, there are actually at least a handful of players on both CLE and CIN's defense that I'd love to steal for our own team. Those teams can be mighty stingy at times on that side of the ball--not that it matters whatsoever to your point.

 

[supafly]

I don't mean to attack your post but this needs to stop now, Vereen has had 2 good games in 2+ NFL season, these posts that make it sound like we're awaiting Marshal Faulk.

Judging by Belichick's decision to put him on the IR exempt list where he'll miss 10 weeks due to the bye for a 3-4 week injury, I'd say that Bill likely shares your same opinion.

That said, I'm a bit torn on the subject because part of me feels that he just utilized the IR rule to the best of his ability, and may have even factored Vereen's potential into the decision to allow Woodhead to walk.

But I also think that if he felt that he was that important to the offense, he may have considered keeping the roster spot open for him for the next 3-4 weeks just the same. We may not even fully find out his true worth this year since he won't be back until week 11, so we may be having this convo again next season too.

 

[JMarr]

Wow, they seriously locked my thread that has been going on for months?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...rent-receiver-corp-not-sustainable-page8.html

...why? Because it was proven right?

Yeah this has been the elephant in the room all season--the
achilles heal--yet most people don't want to talk about it. Strange.

However if and when Gonk comes back, Ridley and Vareen come back, and DA is healthy again, you're going to see a completely different offense i think. No running game hurt us the most today IMO.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

His general point is valid. This team lacks talent in a big way. That's no big deal though because what our guys lack in explosive play-making ability, they make up for in their "love of football", "hard working attitude", "football IQ" and their over all good guyness. Guys like Tavon Wilson, Harmon, Villano, Arrington, Hooman and Ebner don't offer much in terms of ability, but they sure know how to "do their jobs". So no worries guys, we're in good hands.

Well we're 4-1 so I'd say yes we are. Thank goodness for hard-working high-IQ good guys. They've he;lped give us one of the greatest teams in NFL history and a dominant team.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

The fact Belichick has this team at 4-1 right now is the greatest accomplishment of his career bare none, the current 53 man roster is pitiful and that’s putting it nicely.

Expecting to be a great or even good team with your roster made up of players like this is a disappointment waiting to happen.

The injured and missed:

• Rob Gronkowski
• Danny Amendola
• Stevan Ridley
• Matthew Slater
• Aaron Dobson
• Kenbrell Thompkins
• Tommy Kelly*

*Injured today and despite his temporary return I believe further testing will reveal a serious injury that will result in significant time missed.

The injured and and not missed:

• Will Svitek
• Leon Washington
• Tavon Wilson
• Austin Collie

The why are they still on this roster:

• Chris Jones
• Matthew Mulligan
• Ja’Gared Davis
• Kanorris Davis
• Chris Barker
• James Develin
• Chris White

The healthy but contribute nothing:

• Jake Bequette
• Josh Boyce
• Duron Harmon
• Nate Ebner
• Dane Fletcher
• Steve Beauharnais

The names that shouldn’t be read by the announcers during starting lineups ever:

• Joe Vellano
• Michael Hoomanawanui
• LeGarrette Blount

You can give me grief for this post but let’s not kid ourselves here – this roster is not well constructed right now and any suggestion otherwise is a fail.

I will add 1 final point – I know some players are hear for development and special teams but that does not change the overall scope of this roster.

I'm afraid you've got this very wrong. Firstly to ignore the injuries makes no sense at all as they're fundamental to the current state of the roster. Secondly, how can you disregard the rookies who have had all of one pre-season and five games to bed in. Thirdly, there's no point criticising the roster without saying how you'd have made it better considering the limited resources available to BB.

As for your treatment of Chris Jones, that one is a head scratcher. He was one of the better players yesterday (and yes I did watch the game). Not bad considering it was only his second game.

Look at his effort on the Dalton INT. I'm not saying his play caused it, but firstly Jones' effort and very active hands forces the center back into Dalton's face, and secondly his pursuit forces Dalton to either step out of bounds or throw the ball.

New England Patriots linebacker Brandon Spikes intercepts Cincinnati quarterback Andy Dalton - NFL Videos

 

[PatsDeb]

Boy that was rough. D continued to play well overall, but Big Vince was missed against the running game and now Tommy Kelly is a concern.

They got to Brady early and rattled him, making him off all day. Amendola and Thompkins couldn't get open. Dobson was open but sometimes in the wrong place or he & Brady miscommunicated. We are really missing a competent tight end. Either get out there Gronk or sign someone else. Even one of the experienced jags cut in training camp has to be better than what we are running out there now.

Blount (except for fumble - grrrr) and Bolden played well, but it wasn't enough. Mayo was great on D and Talib continued to play very well. That tip away from Green early on was a thing of beauty.

Mother Nature did us no favors at the end. Hopefully this is just one of those stinkers where you bury the ball and move on. After all, the Bengals looked like crap last week then came out and beat us.

The Saints are going to be tough, but I still have hope, especially since we are at home. Go Pats. Pick yourselves up, dust yourselves off and get ready for the next one.

 

[Brewskies]

Yep. As losses go, this one was not particularly alarming.

What is alarming is the strain on the defense and the injuries they get because the offense can't move the ball. In time, these defensive injuries will cost the team as the offense wakes up and the injured return.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

One observation:


Look at what a 2 TE system (we use to have one ) can do to a O/D. Cincy has 2 decent TEs and that opened it up. NEED GRONK

 

[Jimke]

Until yesterday, I thought the Jets game was the worst Patriots game
offensively in recent memory. I hope things improve quickly when Gronk comes back and Collie gets used to the system. We could be in for a couple of routs when the Pats play New Orleans and Denver.

I couldn't figure out why the Patriots replaced Wilfork on the roster with
a 238 pound special teams linebacker. It gave Vellano and Chris Jones no relief when Kelly went down.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

I couldn't figure out why the Patriots replaced Wilfork on the roster with
a 238 pound special teams linebacker. It gave Vellano and Jones no relief when Kelly went down.

They have no one to replace him with...you know how thin they are at DL? If Kelly was out for the year as well (thank god he isn't)? This team would be giving up 150 RY a game

 

[Jimke]

They have no one to replace him with...you know how thin they are at DL? If Kelly was out for the year as well (thank god he isn't)? This team would be giving up 150 RY a game

They had two defensive tackles on the practice squad: Forston an UDFA from
last year and Francis an UDFA from this year. The 238 lb. linebacker who did
take Wilfork's roster spot was also an UDFA.

 

[iapatsfan]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

The players i listed other than dobson and Collins have all shown they can play at a high level in the NFL, that's what makes them talented, and the Patriots offense put up the 3rd most points in NFL history last year, and although Welker was great and Hernadez good they weren't the reasons the offense was so good just a part of it.

Their defense is now one of the better units in the NFL and are still young and developing, and they didn't get their because they "lack talent." So the bottom line is that you guys can talk all the garbage you want about how much this team, Belichick, and Brady suck but the truth is they are unbelievably successful and have been all along and it is because they are talented, smart, and play as a team, and their record and achievments demonstrate that over and over. All you guys have to back up your claims is bluster, because the facts say otherwise, and to disprove that you will need facts, because believe it or not they outweigh all the bluster and Brady6's incredibly deluded opinion of himself.

I am not saying Brady sucks, I'm saying he has sucked this year and too many people are putting that solely on his receiving core. Yes there have been some drops, but the big thing I'm seeing is Brady's ability to step up in the face of pressure is greatly reduced compared to previous seasons. It used to be if you blitzed Brady you were dead. Now it's if you blitz Brady he falls backwards, and throws off his back foot into the dirt. How many times have we already seen that this year? Some of that can be attributed to his young WR core not knowing their hot routes, but that doesn't explain everything.

If unfamiliarity is the primary reason for this, why did Manning lead the Broncos to the #4 offense in the NFL last season? Why did he make Thomas and Decker top line wide receivers, when neither had done much in either of their first two seasons? Knowshon Moreno is the #10 rusher in the NFL right now after being considered a draft bust prior. Julius Thomas is a top 3 TE after having 1 career reception before. Wes Welker leads the NFL in touchdowns. Manning has elevated the play of everyone around him while Brady needs his guys to "learn the system". I guess Manning's system must just be easier to learn. Why do I suspect Manning would not look like the bum Brady's resembled if he were in the New England huddle.

 

[Jimke]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I am not saying Brady sucks, I'm saying he has sucked this year and too many people are putting that solely on his receiving core. Yes there have been some drops, but the big thing I'm seeing is Brady's ability to step up in the face of pressure is greatly reduced compared to previous seasons. It used to be if you blitzed Brady you were dead. Now it's if you blitz Brady he falls backwards, and throws off his back foot into the dirt. How many times have we already seen that this year? Some of that can be attributed to his young WR core not knowing their hot routes, but that doesn't explain everything.

If unfamiliarity is the primary reason for this, why did Manning lead the Broncos to the #4 offense in the NFL last season? Why did he make Thomas and Decker top line wide receivers, when neither had done much in either of their first two seasons? Knowshon Moreno is the #10 rusher in the NFL right now after being considered a draft bust prior. Julius Thomas is a top 3 TE after having 1 career reception before. Wes Welker leads the NFL in touchdowns. Manning has elevated the play of everyone around him while Brady needs his guys to "learn the system". I guess Manning's system must just be easier to learn. Why do I suspect Manning would not look like the bum Brady's resembled if he were in the New England huddle.

I tend to disagree. Manning has a better offensive line, wide receivers, tight ends, and running backs. Without Welker, Lloyd, Gronkowski, Hernandez,
Ridley, Vereen, and Woodhead, the Patriot's offensive team is a hollow
shell of its former self. Too many bad decisions by BB.

 

[doesntmatter1]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

It may have been the right decision to kick the field goal late in the game, but was I the only one pissed that they didn't go for it at the one yard line? This may have pissed me off more than anything. I was also annoyed that Amendola didn't roll into the endzone. That was the slowest roll I have ever seen.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I'm afraid you've got this very wrong.

No, he pretty much nails it. There might be a name, or two, that's arguable, but he's got it dead on for the most part.

 

[SEA_Pat]

I just hope it wasn't, and certainly hope it didn't have anything to do with the play calls down there. That's all I was saying.

Yeah, because you know, the previous 12 years of doing only what was going to give them the best chance to win the game wouldn't be a good indicator. Or how he's never paid any kind of attention to his personal statistics and completely downplayed any discussion of them in every interview he's ever given, literally thousands of times.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

No, he pretty much nails it. There might be a name, or two, that's arguable, but he's got it dead on for the most part.

You mean like including Beauharnais, Fletcher and Harmon in the "contribute nothing" group. There's a reason they contribute nothing; the people ahead of them on the roster are playing very well and are healthy. So how is that an example of bad roster building? Hooman, Blount and Vellano are third/fourth stringers promoted because of injury and the likes of Kanorris and Ja'Gared Davis, Chris White, Barker etc are all PS types promoted to cover injuries.

In fact, the only names on that list that might be considered evidence for bad roster building are Tavon Wilson, Jake Bequette and Nate Ebner which are only evidence for three draft picks that haven't worked out - an issue all 32 teams suffer from.

NB. I'll give you Leon Washington too.

 

[iapatsfan]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I tend to disagree. Manning has a better offensive line, wide receivers, tight ends, and running backs. Without Welker, Lloyd, Gronkowski, Hernandez,
Ridley, Vereen, and Woodhead, the Patriot's offensive team is a hollow
shell of its former self. Too many bad decisions by BB.

I disagree totally on the O Line, tight ends and running backs. He is missing his starting left tackle for the year, and his running backs and tight ends were JAGs prior to his arrival. Yes his receiving core has proven to be dynamic, but Thomas and Decker only blossomed when Manning got there. Prior to that they were JAG receivers with "potential". Sound familiar?? Manning is elevating those around him. Brady used to have that ability (see Patten, Givens, Branch) through his poise in the pocket and confidence, but the 2013 Brady is not that same guy. He is a QB who is scared of pressure and shows it by making comically bad throws to absolutely nobody when he even thinks there may be pressure. His end of game decision making yesterday was as bad as the throws he was making. Why is he even attempting 5 yard dump off throws with under 40 seconds and no timeouts?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

You mean like including Beauharnais, Fletcher and Harmon in the "contribute nothing" group.

I'd list Harmon as one of those I said was arguable. Re-checking the list, I'd probably up the 'arguable' number to 3, by adding Mulligan (OR Develin) and Blount.

There's a reason they contribute nothing; the people ahead of them on the roster are playing very well and are healthy. So how is that an example of bad roster building? Hooman, Blount and Vellano are third/fourth stringers promoted because of injury and the likes of Kanorris and Ja'Gared Davis, Chris White, Barker etc are all PS types promoted to cover injuries.

Did you expect him to give a breakdown list that doesn't include players doing nothing? That would be an incredibly stupid list. Perhaps the problem is that you're looking to attack rather than understand?

In fact, the only names on that list that might be considered evidence for bad roster building are Tavon Wilson, Jake Bequette and Nate Ebner which are only evidence for three draft picks that haven't worked out - an issue all 32 teams suffer from.

NB. I'll give you Leon Washington too.

That's clearly not correct. Signing an Austin Collie, or promoting non-DT stiffs from the practice squad when there was a clear need at DT is actually a pretty obvious example of bad roster building. That you would ignore that is a damning indictment of your post.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

You mean like including Beauharnais, Fletcher and Harmon in the "contribute nothing" group. There's a reason they contribute nothing; the people ahead of them on the roster are playing very well and are healthy. So how is that an example of bad roster building? Hooman, Blount and Vellano are third/fourth stringers promoted because of injury and the likes of Kanorris and Ja'Gared Davis, Chris White, Barker etc are all PS types promoted to cover injuries.

In fact, the only names on that list that might be considered evidence for bad roster building are Tavon Wilson, Jake Bequette and Nate Ebner which are only evidence for three draft picks that haven't worked out - an issue all 32 teams suffer from.

NB. I'll give you Leon Washington too.

I agree with your take on this. Good luck fighting against the armchair GMs, though.