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Patriots vs Bengals Post-Game Thread


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Aside from the patriots defense being second in football in points against the one good thing coming out of this is those fans showing their true colors during a time of adversity. Hint, it's not the Patriots who really suck.


*Highlighted to make it clear that i am not talking about all the Patriot fans, just the bandwagoneers. Roll on losers, I have absolutely no respect for you. can't wait for this team to once again prove all of you dead wrong as always. this thread needs to be preserved.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I am not saying Brady sucks, I'm saying he has sucked this year and too many people are putting that solely on his receiving core. Yes there have been some drops, but the big thing I'm seeing is Brady's ability to step up in the face of pressure is greatly reduced compared to previous seasons. It used to be if you blitzed Brady you were dead. Now it's if you blitz Brady he falls backwards, and throws off his back foot into the dirt. How many times have we already seen that this year? Some of that can be attributed to his young WR core not knowing their hot routes, but that doesn't explain everything.

If unfamiliarity is the primary reason for this, why did Manning lead the Broncos to the #4 offense in the NFL last season? Why did he make Thomas and Decker top line wide receivers, when neither had done much in either of their first two seasons? Knowshon Moreno is the #10 rusher in the NFL right now after being considered a draft bust prior. Julius Thomas is a top 3 TE after having 1 career reception before. Wes Welker leads the NFL in touchdowns. Manning has elevated the play of everyone around him while Brady needs his guys to "learn the system". I guess Manning's system must just be easier to learn. Why do I suspect Manning would not look like the bum Brady's resembled if he were in the New England huddle.



The Bronco's made the play-offs with a QB who couldn't start for a good HS team, that's what Manning inherited. Brady is playing with his 3rd string skill position players and they are 4-1. Losing Welker has clearly hurt them despite Edelman stepping up, but overall it is more a matter of the team not being able to execute offensively because they have lost so much at the skill positions. Brady and the OL had a tough day yesterday and while you can't just give them a pass on that there are clearly extenuating circumstances. The Bengals really didn't have to respect the run yesterday because they knew the patriots weren't going to beat them with Blount and Bolden, so they went after Brady all day long, and they simply were not able to deal with that. Do they have to play better, absolutely, but they also need to get some of their top skill players to be able to execute against the top defenses. when it became apparent what they were going to be dealing with at the beginning of this season I said I would be happy with them going 4-2 to start, and I stand by that. their defense is showing that they are going to be a really good unit, despite losing their most important player, and their offense is going to be substantially better when Gronk is the starting TE, Ridley is back at RB, and Amendola and edelman are the starting Wr's with Dobson as the third option. Will they be the best offense in football-no way, but combined with their defense they will be good enough to help them win their division, at which point we will see whether they are healthy enough and good enough to make a play-off run.


People can quit on them if they want, and clearly there are many who already have, but i like this team and believe they will be a good team this season and amuch better one next season. who is right? we'll see?


As for the quitters-good riddance, you won't be missed. Good luck to your Broncos-love your defense.
 
I don't mean to attack your post but this needs to stop now, Vereen has had 2 good games in 2+ NFL season, these posts that make it sound like we're awaiting Marshal Faulk.

Brady6, I really liked your insightful posts the past couple of weeks, but you had as big an offday yesterday as the Patriots did.

The poster didn't write anything close to comparing Vereen to Marshall Faulk. he merely wrote "Missing Vereen hurts a lot, too."

He was 100% spot on - -Vereen would have been invaluable in that rainstorm taking dump offs from Brady.
 
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Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I am not saying Brady sucks, I'm saying he has sucked this year and too many people are putting that solely on his receiving core. Yes there have been some drops, but the big thing I'm seeing is Brady's ability to step up in the face of pressure is greatly reduced compared to previous seasons. It used to be if you blitzed Brady you were dead. Now it's if you blitz Brady he falls backwards, and throws off his back foot into the dirt.

Do you NOT notice where the blitz pressure is coming this year as opposed to previous years???????

This year, the Tackles are lock down excellent. The Center is whipped cream. You cannot "step up" in the pocket if the pressure is coming in your face.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

No, he pretty much nails it. There might be a name, or two, that's arguable, but he's got it dead on for the most part.

The fact you go out of your way to support him tells everyone else here just how wrong he really is.. Thanks, Deus..
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

That's clearly not correct. Signing an Austin Collie, or promoting non-DT stiffs from the practice squad when there was a clear need at DT is actually a pretty obvious example of bad roster building. That you would ignore that is a damning indictment of your post.

They signed Austin Collie because of the injury status of both Thompkins and Dobson. Two guys who were on the injury list all week. Thinking otherwise is just plain foolishness.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

They signed Austin Collie because of the injury status of both Thompkins and Dobson. Two guys who were on the injury list all week. Thinking otherwise is just plain foolishness.

Actually what would be foolish would be deus passing up the opportunity to critique Belichick's choice for their 8th string WR.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Actually what would be foolish would be deus passing up the opportunity to critique Belichick's choice for their 8th string WR.

Wait.... are people really defending the signing of a WR who was inactive when there was a need for a DT, when the discussion is about the roster construction?





Now THAT'S good comedy. Y'all really need to take a bow.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Wait.... are people really defending the signing of a WR who was inactive when there was a need for a DT, when the discussion is about the roster construction?





Now THAT'S good comedy.

There was also a need for WR as well. But you'll never admit that..
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

I'd list Harmon as one of those I said was arguable. Re-checking the list, I'd probably up the 'arguable' number to 3, by adding Mulligan (OR Develin) and Blount.



Did you expect him to give a breakdown list that doesn't include players doing nothing? That would be an incredibly stupid list. Perhaps the problem is that you're looking to attack rather than understand?



That's clearly not correct. Signing an Austin Collie, or promoting non-DT stiffs from the practice squad when there was a clear need at DT is actually a pretty obvious example of bad roster building. That you would ignore that is a damning indictment of your post.



1. "Looking to attack rather than understand." Where have I attacked anyone? I disagreed with a post is all.

2. In a post that supposedly highlights a "pitiful" roster, yes, I expect any name mentioned as supporting evidence to be examples of bad roster building. Clearly Harmon, Fletcher, Boyce and Beauharnais are not such examples. So why mention them?

3. Signing Austin Collie: At the time they signed him, they had three healthy WRs. They clearly can't go into a game like that so signed some insurance. To use Collie as an example of anything is just a desperate attempt to make things look worse than they actually are.

4.Not promoting DTs: And no doubt if they had promoted Marcus Forston or AJ Francis, you and Brady 6 would be using them as examples of bad roster building. In other words, it's a lose-lose for BB. BB clearly felt that Vellano (has some experience in the system) and Chris Jones (who played well) offer greater value than Forston and Francis and were enough (which considering we lost Tommy Kelly and still held the Bengals to 13 points was clearly borne out). Or do you thing Forston or Francis would have made a significant impact on the final result? If not, your point is meaningless.

5. And I think you have a very short-term idea as to what constitutes roster building which is much more long-term than the mere promoting of PS candidates ahead of one game as you suggest. I didn't ignore it btw, it just isn't relevant.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Wait.... are people really defending the signing of a WR who was inactive when there was a need for a DT, when the discussion is about the roster construction?





Now THAT'S good comedy. Y'all really need to take a bow.



Wait, are people really criticizing the signing of a WR when their offense is clearly the problem and defense isn't?

4-1 missing many of their top players, y'all really need to get your heads out of your @sses and stop your crying.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Wait.... are people really defending the signing of a WR who was inactive when there was a need for a DT, when the discussion is about the roster construction?





Now THAT'S good comedy. Y'all really need to take a bow.

Why activate LB J. Davis from the practice squad instead of DLs Forston
or Francis?
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Wait.... are people really defending the signing of a WR who was inactive when there was a need for a DT, when the discussion is about the roster construction?





Now THAT'S good comedy. Y'all really need to take a bow.



My bad deus, I didn't realize the defense was the problem yesterday. Casey Hampton would have made all the difference. good call, you the man.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Why activate LB J. Davis from the practice squad instead of DLs Forston
or Francis?

Why have "WC" Bequette dressed for the game and not a Forston or Francis?

Did anyone see the overhead replay of the 4th and goal TD run by BJGE? (i.e. the difference in the game).

#92 is pure Whipped Cream. His skeletal system actually collapsed on itself like a picnic chair.
 
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Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

1. "Looking to attack rather than understand." Where have I attacked anyone? I disagreed with a post is all.

You seem to have attacked the idea without thinking it through, which was my point. His basic premise is absolutely solid, although a couple of the listed players are questionable.

2. In a post that supposedly highlights a "pitiful" roster, yes, I expect any name mentioned as supporting evidence to be examples of bad roster building. Clearly Harmon, Fletcher, Boyce and Beauharnais are not such examples. So why mention them?

Because you're wrong in saying that they clearly are not such examples, given the category they were in? Again, note that I didn't agree with him about Harmon...

3. Signing Austin Collie: At the time they signed him, they had three healthy WRs. They clearly can't go into a game like that so signed some insurance. To use Collie as an example of anything is just a desperate attempt to make things look worse than they actually are.

Signing Collie is understandable if you also add another DT. Signing Collie is incompetence if you don't. They didn't. Also, please... they didn't sign Collie until thursday, so let's not pretend your 'insurance' position has any real merit as a defense. If the WR issue was such a problem, what the hell were they doing waiting until thursday to bring someone in?

4.Not promoting DTs: And no doubt if they had promoted Marcus Forston or AJ Francis, you and Brady 6 would be using them as examples of bad roster building. In other words, it's a lose-lose for BB. BB clearly felt that Vellano (has some experience in the system) and Chris Jones (who played well) offer greater value than Forston and Francis and were enough (which considering we lost Tommy Kelly and still held the Bengals to 13 points was clearly borne out). Or do you thing Forston or Francis would have made a significant impact on the final result? If not, your point is meaningless.

You first try framing the argument with the "no doubt..." and then you try re-framing it with the "if not..", and you get them both wrong. They needed another DT. Kelly's injury should have made that abundantly clear.

5. And I think you have a very short-term idea as to what constitutes roster building which is much more long-term than the mere promoting of PS candidates ahead of one game as you suggest. I didn't ignore it btw, it just isn't relevant.

Ehhh... that's a lousy argument, and it's one you know is not true.. You know well that I've been all about the longterm roster (Well, mid-range, since I've been about rounding it out for Brady's last years) for years, just as you know that I've been pretty much at the forefront of pointing out where the problem areas were and needed to be addressed, and have been right about those areas.

Furthermore, many of these roster issues date from the offseason or previous seasons. That's a bit more longterm than the Collie signing.
 
THE GOD OF WRATH HAS SPOKEN-THE DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM!




58 points against this season, 10 more than the broncos allowed yesterday. Good call by THE GOD OF WRATH.
 
New England yesterday 0 penalties for 0 yards... it's getting absolutely pathetic the level of favoritism showered on the Pats. Why is that? Well...

Robert Kraft holds all the cards with the television networks. They aren't going to let his team lose. Remember, (a) Kraft is also a board member at Viacom, CBS's parent and (b) CBS actually has an equity stake in the Patriot Place commercial mall/development. How no one in the media has ever really brought them up or focused on those conflicts never ceases to amaze me....

0 penalties for 0 yards - Cincinnati Bengals Message Boards - Forums

temp_PBS2205--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG


temp_PBS2576--nfl_mezz_1280_1024.JPG
 
THE GOD OF WRATH HAS SPOKEN-THE DEFENSE IS THE PROBLEM!




58 points against this season, 10 more than the broncos allowed yesterday. Good call by THE GOD OF WRATH.



Nowhere have I said that the defense was the problem yesterday.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

You seem to have attacked the idea without thinking it through, which was my point. His basic premise is absolutely solid, although a couple of the listed players are questionable.

He called the 53 man roster "pitiful". There is nothing "solid" to that "premise". Actually, he suggested worse than pitiful.



Because you're wrong in saying that they clearly are not such examples, given the category they were in? Again, note that I didn't agree with him about Harmon...

They were such examples. Re-read his post. They were names listed as part of the following premise.

Expecting to be a great or even good team with your roster made up of players like this is a disappointment waiting to happen.


Signing Collie is understandable if you also add another DT. Signing Collie is incompetence if you don't. They didn't.

That's all very well, but which DT could they have signed. Is there a supply of competent FA DTs out there that everyone is unaware of? Any FA list I've seen consists of the cast of The Walking Dead.



You first try framing the argument with the "no doubt..." and then you try re-framing it with the "if not..", and you get them both wrong. They needed another DT. Kelly's injury should have made that abundantly clear.

Again you make this assertion without actually saying which DT could have made this team better. Until you do, the assertion means nothing. Who could have contributed more than Vellano or Jones?



Ehhh... that's a lousy argument, and it's one you know is not true.. You know well that I've been all about the longterm roster (Well, mid-range, since I've been about rounding it out for Brady's last years) for years, just as you know that I've been pretty much at the forefront of pointing out where the problem areas were and needed to be addressed, and have been right about those areas.

I normally respect your views on the roster and acknowledge you are a realist and not a downer as others think. But you specifically pointed to the promotion of the two PS guys as being "bad roster building".

Signing an Austin Collie, or promoting non-DT stiffs from the practice squad when there was a clear need at DT is actually a pretty obvious example of bad roster building

That's what I was arguing was short-term. Which it was so hardly a "lousy argument". There was nothing long-term or mid-range about questioning the signing of Collie or promoting two guys from the PS ahead of one particular game.
 
Re: The current state of the 53 man roster…

Why activate LB J. Davis from the practice squad instead of DLs Forston
or Francis?

Davis plays STs, does he not?
 
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